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Do You Believe in Man-Made Climate Change?

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6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 Al Gore being one of them, I can't count how many of his speeches of movies, books have been debunked by BOTH sides, and he is one of the many faces to climate change... or should I say one that is putting mud in the waters....The media is another player in this game, very few name brand media companies have printed unbiased reports on the subject, they are either for it or against it with both sides using credible sources... atleast in name brands ie NASA scientists, Climate experts, but what do I know I have no idea what is a good source or a bad source, So to say there is a lot of info out there , your right but what is the truth and what is misinformed....

I do believe that somehow our climate is being changed, or effected by people.... but I am in the middle of the fence right now. 

 

It is being affected by people.  Something has to be done.  And - yes - there is definitely climate hysteria.  All of these things can be true simultaneously.

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21 hours ago, eyeball said:

That still places you on a fence that's about 30 years behind the science.

Perhaps , but I'm not the only one that feels that way, there are millions with similar opinions, I also believe this is not a Canada only issue, the entire world must be one the same page, very unlikely that is going to happen until it is to late... I believe our response should be measured by what is happening in the majority of the world, so our economy does not take a needless hit......like I said Canada could go emissions free today and not make much difference in the worlds climate...

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53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Perhaps , but I'm not the only one that feels that way, there are millions with similar opinions, I also believe this is not a Canada only issue, the entire world must be one the same page, very unlikely that is going to happen until it is to late... I believe our response should be measured by what is happening in the majority of the world, so our economy does not take a needless hit......like I said Canada could go emissions free today and not make much difference in the worlds climate...

Unfortunately the opinion that science is bunkum is the prevailing one here in North America as the video Michael posted showed. What millions of wilfully ignorant people think is completely at odds with what thousands of informed scientists know.

I believe our response must also include pointing out that prevailing opinion is as stupid as the people holding it. I suppose that will only lead to more polarization and digging in of heels but it is what it is. I wish I could find a more constructive way to communicate that but after decades of running into the same intransigent opinion I'm at a loss.  Driving off the cliff and hitting rock bottom hard enough the pain sinks in and effects a change in that opinion appears to be the only way thru it.

Hopefully science will find and produce solutions faster but...that cliff is getting closer.

Edited by eyeball
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12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Unfortunately the opinion that science is bunkum is the prevailing one here in North America as the video Michael posted showed. What millions of wilfully ignorant people think is completely at odds with what thousands of informed scientists know.

....

I will believe those "thousands of informed scientists" when they stop flying to international conferences and emitting more CO2 in one flight than most of us in a year.

Until then, this is just a theory - like the earth being the centre of the universe.

Edited by August1991

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45 minutes ago, August1991 said:

I will believe those "thousands of informed scientists" when they stop flying to international conferences and emitting more CO2 in one flight than most of us in a year.

I doubt that. There must be at least another hundred equally banal excuses for not giving a shit that you can choose from.

 

Edited by eyeball
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2 hours ago, August1991 said:

I will believe those "thousands of informed scientists" when they stop flying to international conferences and emitting more CO2 in one flight than most of us in a year.

Until then, this is just a theory - like the earth being the centre of the universe.

You are using a computer that runs because of theories.

 

And nobody is saying we are now going to stop using fossil fuels.  It's REDUCTION.

 

Flying to a conference where they talk about reduction may be one of the best uses of fossil fuels.

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17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And nobody is saying we are now going to stop using fossil fuels.  It's REDUCTION.

 

Good luck with that....just sayin'

 

fossil-fuel-consumption-by-fuel-type_v4_

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21 hours ago, Army Guy said:

so our economy does not take a needless hit

Honestly, this made me laugh so hard - we are already taking a 'needless hit on our economy', trying to deal with the early effects of climate change such as flooding and fire because we paid little attention years ago when scientists first voiced their concern.  And it's only going to get worse.  It's going to cost trillions, our options are between bad and devastating, at this point.

Edited by dialamah

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5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Honestly, this made me laugh so hard - we are already taking a 'needless hit on our economy', trying to deal with the early effects of climate change such as flooding and fire because we paid little attention years ago when scientists first voiced their concern.  And it's only going to get worse.  It's going to cost trillions, our options are between bad and devastating, at this point.

Given you realise that the current conditions we are experiencing stem from emissions made many years ago, you must realise the utter pointlessness of unilateral action now.  Greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, worldwide, and any 'needless hit on our economy' will not affect them.  Not in any way whatsoever.  Hence the adjective.

There is an irresistible urge to say "We have to do something, dammit!!!" when it comes to climate change, which just means that the scope of the problem is not fully realised.

I know I'm a broken record on this, but then, it's only ever in response to other broken records.

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9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Given you realise that the current conditions we are experiencing stem from emissions made many years ago, you must realise the utter pointlessness of unilateral action now.  Greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, worldwide, and any 'needless hit on our economy' will not affect them.  Not in any way whatsoever.  Hence the adjective.

There is an irresistible urge to say "We have to do something, dammit!!!" when it comes to climate change, which just means that the scope of the problem is not fully realised.

I don't believe in giving up.  In addition, people who know what they are talking about, which excludes you, continue to say that we can still mitigate the worst effects of climate change.  You are free to pretend this can't be done, and reject suggestions that adversely affect you because "its not enough".  

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I know I'm a broken record on this, but then, it's only ever in response to other broken records.

Good point.  I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you and ignore your comments from here on since you've made up your mind that you may as well give up. 

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7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't believe in giving up.  In addition, people who know what they are talking about, which excludes you, continue to say that we can still mitigate the worst effects of climate change.  You are free to pretend this can't be done, and reject suggestions that adversely affect you because "its not enough".  

Good point.  I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you and ignore your comments from here on since you've made up your mind that you may as well give up. 

You don't believe in fixing the problem either.  You believe in looking like you really mean to, while continuing with your lifestyle except for cancelling the trip you really didn't need to take anyway, and making your next vehicle a hybrid.  Maybe, if you live in a city a temperate zone.

Go ahead and pretend it can be done.  It's unique in being an argument I really want to lose.  Unfortunately, all the evidence, literally all of it, tells me I'm not going to.

Anyway, do those people who say "we can still mitigate the worst effects of climate change" say how?  Is it practically achievable?  I'm genuinely curious.

Edited by bcsapper

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32 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I'm genuinely curious.

Look it up, don't expect other people to do the work for you.

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32 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Anyway, do those people who say "we can still mitigate the worst effects of climate change" say how?  Is it practically achievable? 

Yes they do. Yes it is.

Quote

I'm genuinely curious.

If that were the case you wouldn't be asking these questions, you'd be answering them.

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1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Look it up, don't expect other people to do the work for you.

I read about climate change all the time.  It's what I do for a living.  I have seen nothing (again, literally) that leads me to think that we, as a species, are going to be able to stop climate change without a currently unheard of technological breakthrough.  Or climate related disaster. 

So I think you are making it up.  You can prove me wrong if you want, or don't.  It makes no difference to me.

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes they do. Yes it is.

If that were the case you wouldn't be asking these questions, you'd be answering them.

See above.  Same answer.

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Just now, eyeball said:

Keep reading.

There's nothing there.  If there were, I'm sure those on here who love an argument as much as I do, which includes you and dialamah, would love to rub my face in it. 

In the nicest possible way, of course.

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I think the only way to fight climate change is in the overlap between what we need to do to improve the economy/quality of life and what will reduce greenhouse gas emissions, such as building complete communities where workplaces and amenities (shopping, services, nature) are near housing and walkable, green energy is part of the building code (solar roof tiles, deep water cooling, etc.), and rapid mass transit is conveniently accessible (subways, lrt's, high speed rail, busways, etc.).  If we build our communities and infrastructure more carefully, our society will become more productive, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and experience a huge improvement in quality of life, especially with regard to traffic and commute times.  The great thing about such initiatives is that existing revenues can be redirected towards them, since they cut across all departments: Transportation, Health, Infrastructure, Energy, Environment, even Defense and more obscure government affairs.  I would support any government that reworks policy and funding this way. 

Edited by Zeitgeist

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5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

There's nothing there.  If there were, I'm sure those on here who love an argument as much as I do, which includes you and dialamah, would love to rub my face in it. 

In the nicest possible way, of course.

https://www.google.com/

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15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think the only way to fight climate change is in the overlap between what we need to do to improve the economy/quality of life and what will reduce greenhouse gas emissions, such as building complete communities where workplaces and amenities (shopping, services, nature) are near housing and walkable, green energy is part of the building code (solar roof tiles, deep water cooling, etc.), and rapid mass transit is conveniently accessible (subways, lrt's, high speed rail, busways, etc.).  If we build our communities and infrastructure more carefully, our society will become more productive, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and experience a huge improvement in quality of life, especially with regard to traffic and commute times.  The great thing about such initiatives is that existing revenues can be redirected towards them, since they cut across all departments: Transportation, Health, Infrastructure, Energy, Environment, even Defense and more obscure government affairs.  I would support any government that reworks policy and funding this way. 

Could you get on it?  Let me know when you've finished.

I don't mean to be flippant, but fantasy was always the only answer to climate change. 

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