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Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

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23 hours ago, jacee said:

CoastalGasLink's environmental report rejected. Construction will be delayed months.

https://ricochet.media/en/2945/coastal-gaslink-environmental-assessment-rejected-construction-to-be-delayed

Now CGL and RCMP can leave Wet'suet'en Territory and the governments can get to work to reconcile Aboriginal rights and title with Crown rights, as directed by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1997. 

"In an email to Ricochet, the B.C. Ministry of Environment and Climate Change Strategy said that “the EAO has not rejected CGL’s report” and is asking the company for more information, including “how the feedback from Indigenous nations has been responded to and addressed.”

“CGL is authorized to conduct pre-construction activities and this may continued during this 30 day period.”

Coastal GasLink told CBC in a statement that the company hopes to engage Unist’ot’en shortly to address concerns."

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On 2/22/2020 at 9:10 AM, Zeitgeist said:

These people are clueless and naive about how to run businesses, industry, and society as a whole.  Now “chiefs” are setting the terms.  What a sad state of affairs for this country.  Can’t get anything done.  A bunch of whiny layabout dependents are shutting down the economy and making shrill, stupid demands.  

We need emergency measures.  Toss out the blockade terrorists and all discussions.  Trudeau should resign or the Governor General should dissolve Parliament.  Incompetent and weak.  

Ya, let's just go all totally fascist! 

Ya know ya wanna!

Democracy is a fine idea ... as long as nobody ever speaks up!   Lol 

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This is what the protests are really about which no one wants to speak about..  it's the elephant in the room.  It's not about 'reconciliation' it's about giving the land 'back' to the Natives and living under their laws...   is this what Trudeau wants or expects, and who will speak up and whop will fight for Canada and ALL Canadians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/22/movement-end-canada/

The Wet’suwet’en chiefs contest the authority of Canadian law. Their supporters have behaved in kind, illegally blockading train tracks and bridges across the country, causing widespread economic disruption.

snip

This only makes sense. A movement that believes it is desirable to severely weaken, or even dissolve, the state in order to achieve some larger goal, whether it’s a socialist utopia or green one, will naturally latch onto any movement with shared objectives. This is why it is unpersuasive when conservatives complain, with performative empathy, that “non-indigenous activists” have hijacked the cause of the Wet’suwet’en, or whoever. The more important question is why this cause is so easily hijacked in the first place, and whether it was wise for Canada to have accepted the existence of an independent indigenous political authority without establishing clear parameters around it.

 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Ya, let's just go all totally fascist! 

Ya know ya wanna!

Democracy is a fine idea ... as long as nobody ever speaks up!   Lol 

The Green Fascists certainly are a threat to democracy in Canada.  

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11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Green Fascists certainly are a threat to democracy in Canada.  

 

Blocking roads and rails in order to damage innocent lives at the behest of unelected petty kings is a noble venture. They want something and the means justify the ends in terms of getting it. They justify any moral doubts by deciding any opposition to their goals is fascism.

 

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U.S. political party election results now lead CBC News top stories.   The national blockade and disruption of rail transportation in Canada has now been normalized, with no expectation for quick resolution and resumption of services.

Rail freight will be re-routed to the U.S. and south-north distribution by rail and truck.

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On 2/22/2020 at 10:52 AM, eyeball said:

 Actually I own a rowing/sailing boat with an electric motor with a solar panel to charge it.

..wow you are a commie. Now the native people I know use bullet boats. Lol. No solar panels. Good luck trying to catch one of them bullet boats.

I actually had a canoe when I was younger. A heavy canvas canoe with wooden rims and tar patches. Hah. I think this canoe concept came from some guy in Miami smuggling drugs.

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1 hour ago, scribblet said:

This is what the protests are really about which no one wants to speak about..  it's the elephant in the room.  It's not about 'reconciliation' it's about giving the land 'back' to the Natives and living under their laws...   is this what Trudeau wants or expects, and who will speak up and whop will fight for Canada and ALL Canadians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/22/movement-end-canada/

The Wet’suwet’en chiefs contest the authority of Canadian law. Their supporters have behaved in kind, illegally blockading train tracks and bridges across the country, causing widespread economic disruption.

snip

This only makes sense. A movement that believes it is desirable to severely weaken, or even dissolve, the state in order to achieve some larger goal, whether it’s a socialist utopia or green one, will naturally latch onto any movement with shared objectives. This is why it is unpersuasive when conservatives complain, with performative empathy, that “non-indigenous activists” have hijacked the cause of the Wet’suwet’en, or whoever. The more important question is why this cause is so easily hijacked in the first place, and whether it was wise for Canada to have accepted the existence of an independent indigenous political authority without establishing clear parameters around it.

 

We need a new form of Clarity Act to define those parameters. Those bands are NOT independent.  If you can’t pay for your own services, you’re not independent.  What’s more, there are tremendous demands for more representation, money, and services, yet there’s no taxation of reservation land or income to pay for any of it.  Title, where warranted, is fine, but that’s not the same thing as independence.  The term “nation to nation” when we talk about negotiations is misleading.  These bands are not of equal stature to the country of Canada for many important reasons. It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. It should not be otherwise. No representation without taxation. No political independence without financial independence.  

However, I don’t propose stripping funding of Indigenous Affaires.  It would have to be scaled back over time.  Same goes for implementation of taxation.  That should happen incrementally until eventually the taxation roughly pays for the services, as in the rest of the country.  That’s ownership and responsibility.  That’s the end of two-tier citizenship.  I also think Canada should restore clean water on the desperate reserves. Children deserve clean water and safe housing.  Health care and education are already covered by the Canadian federal government.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

U.S. political party election results now lead CBC News top stories.   The national blockade and disruption of rail transportation in Canada has now been normalized, with no expectation for quick resolution and resumption of services.

Rail freight will be re-routed to the U.S. and south-north distribution by rail and truck.

 

Utter madness. 

Yup...Spring is a-coming...easy protesting ahead.

That and our fair weather BC crime wave should make for an interesting few months...

Crooks and protesters both dislike -35C...

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5 hours ago, jacee said:

Ya, let's just go all totally fascist! 

Ya know ya wanna!

Democracy is a fine idea ... as long as nobody ever speaks up!   Lol 

Democracy is a fine idea, as long as everyone agrees with the environmentalists, when they don't then f**k democracy, lets all go totally fascist. Jacee ladies and gentlemen.

Edited by Yzermandius19
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3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Utter madness. 

Yup...Spring is a-coming...easy protesting ahead.

That and our fair weather BC crime wave should make for an interesting few months...

Crooks and protesters both dislike -35C...

Boy, crackin' down and gettin' tough was sure easier in the Before Times wasn't it?

Are conservatives dying off at a faster rate than we're accounting for are they just giving up or embracing the horror...what gives?

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Boy, crackin' down and gettin' tough was sure easier in the Before Times wasn't it?

Are conservatives dying off at a faster rate than we're accounting for are they just giving up or embracing the horror...what gives?

The Conservatives picked up more votes than any other party in the last election.  At this point it looks like they’d get a majority in the next election if they had a ball with a face painted on it for a leader.  These next few days are pretty decisive.

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Conservatives picked up more votes than any other party in the last election.  At this point it looks like they’d get a majority in the next election if they had a ball with a face painted on it for a leader.  These next few days are pretty decisive.

Yeah well I can only imagine where we'd be right now if Scheer was in power.  Probably on a lot more international news headlines than I've seen to date.  Notwithstanding Bush_Cheney 2004's chronic obsession with Canada this issue seems like a proverbial nothingburger.

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21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yeah well I can only imagine where we'd be right now if Scheer was in power.  Probably on a lot more international news headlines than I've seen to date.

Is that what you fear? I don't fear news headlines. I fear lawlessness more than the deaths of a few people who break the law. Lawlessness leads to anarchy, and ultimately to a lot more deaths than a few fanatics clutching their rifles and determined to evict the settlers from their land.

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It seems to me that almost all the problems we're now experiencing are due to the Left and their endlessly racist, paternalistic head-patting attitude towards natives. For years and years they've nodded their heads and smiled and treated natives as if they were some sort of endangered species, a kind of backward but wonderfully innocent and primitive tribal culture from the dark ages that they're determined to preserve as it is.

To that end they have endlessly patronized them, agreed wholeheartedly with every complaint from every activist group about how oppressed and hard-done-by natives are, how we 'stole' their land and committed 'genocide' by trying to civilize them. They've told them they're nations with all the rights and respect due to nations – even if most of the reservations are basically tiny villages of a few hundred people. And that, of course, includes complete sovereignty towards 'their lands'. They've never criticized them, never offered up the slightest disagreement from any complaint, never tried to put in context or point out how natives themselves were responsible for much of it

And this has done two things, I think. First, it's given the natives a far loftier view of their own importance than they deserve. If one is a nation, after all, one has a certain high importance and has to be respected as such.

Second, it certainly hasn't done anything to instill any sense of love, loyalty or even liking for being Canadians. I mean, if the political and media and artistic and academic communities are constantly bemoaning what an absolute shit of a country we are and always have been: cold, cruel, vicious, brutal, oppressive, murderous, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, etc., then why in hell would anyone want to be a part of it, let alone take any pride in it? Especially if the message they're being given about their own history and culture is one of noble, honest, honourable, wise, gentle, caring, sharing stewards of the land who cared about all things and people?

Edited by Argus

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On 2/21/2020 at 11:59 AM, eyeball said:

I have no contempt for them but I do for the stupid resource company that was given consent to put their pipeline elsewhere.

Besides which the best way out of poverty is to reconcile and secure treaties.  I see the evidence of that growing just about everyday where I live.  As I've repeated many times reconciliation is one of the biggest economic drivers now where I live.

Much of Canada is really missing out. 

I will bet you that those pipeline owners are nothing more than a bunch of white racists-racists-racists, eh? ;)  

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On 2/22/2020 at 6:10 AM, Zeitgeist said:

These people are clueless and naive about how to run businesses, industry, and society as a whole.  Now “chiefs” are setting the terms.  What a sad state of affairs for this country.  Can’t get anything done.  A bunch of whiny layabout dependents are shutting down the economy and making shrill, stupid demands.  

We need emergency measures.  Toss out the blockade terrorists and all discussions.  Trudeau should resign or the Governor General should dissolve Parliament.  Incompetent and weak.  

The native Indians should be dam happy as hell that the British/European people came along. They did nothing with the place before we came to what we know as Canada now. I wonder if the Americans would up with this same nonsense? The British/European people have tried their hardest to try and make their lives more civilized. Sure some things were done to the Indians that was not so nice but we white folk have pretty much already made up for those past evils. I can guarantee you that not one Indian today would want to go back to the good old Indian days where they just barely were able to eek out an existence.  Then there was the forced end of one Indian band attacking and killing some other Indians in another Indian band. That alone they should be thankful for.  

I say enough already. It is time for some tough love. Stop all taxpayer's tax dollars from going into their Indian bank accounts every month until they end their illegal protests and blockades. I heard some Indian, he looked more white than Indian, say on the news this morning that they are going to continue and we are not leaving until our demands are met. It has been over three weeks since this terrorism had begun. The economy was already in bad shape. Now it is even worse. Trudeau should resign and the GG should dissolve parliament. The only problem there is that we the people will now have to face another election which will probably mean that this terrorism will not get resolved until after the election, if at all. This country is fast going to the bloody rats thanks to the rats that are running this gawd forsaken country. Where is a real and true Reagan or Trump like leader in this stupid leftist liberal socialist country?  :unsure:

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

Is that what you fear? I don't fear news headlines.

I don't fear these the least little bit at all. And I'm quite certain you're terrified of bad press and especially any that talks about our reliability as a supplier to the market.

Quote

I fear lawlessness more than the deaths of a few people who break the law. Lawlessness leads to anarchy, and ultimately to a lot more deaths than a few fanatics clutching their rifles and determined to evict the settlers from their land.

Yes but you're a conservative Argus and exaggerating your fears, especially of lawlessness just comes naturally to you. There is a vast difference between the sort of criminal lawlessness that conservatives are usually screeching about and political lawlessness that the government is trying to deal with here.  Attempting to conflate the two is a pretty transparent ploy.  

You should be even more fearful of the anarchy that will ensue if your violent prescription for settling this is followed.  It's far bigger than just a few people and I have no hesitation whatsoever predicting hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be galvanized enough to take to the streets.

Then we'd start seeing international headlines for sure and conservatives might want to be careful what they wish for.  If indigenous peoples and environmentalists in other countries saw what was happening here they might be inspired to follow suit.  The role that indigenous people can play in providing a better capacity within a society for environmental protection is very apparent to the environmental movement.  I fully expect you to express nothing but the utmost contempt and scorn for such a view and that's just fine. The more that people see the uglier side of right wing determination that it's going to business as usual vis a vis the environment or else, the better.

We know the lawlessness and anarchy of trying to survive on a wasting and wasted planet is going to make the chaos you're afraid of seem like a poor quarterly report in comparison.

Edited by eyeball

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6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes but you're a conservative Argus and exaggerating your fears, especially of lawlessness just comes naturally you. There is a vast difference between the sort of criminal lawlessness that conservatives are usually screeching about and political lawlessness that the government is trying to deal with

Yes, but you’re a liberal.  Excusing lawlessness comes naturally to you.  Unless of course it’s lawlessness directed toward one of your pet issues or protected peoples.  Regardless, lawlessness is lawlessness.  There is no difference.  When you give people permission to break the law, you get more of it.  It’s a terrible precedent in a civil society.  Perhaps you should be less concerned over the precedent of lawlessness set by leaders of other countries and be more concerned over the precedent of lawlessness you’re setting in you’re own country.  But once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.

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You should be even more fearful of the anarchy that will ensue if your violent prescription for settling this is followed.  It's far bigger than just a few people and I have no hesitation whatsoever predicting hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be galvanized enough to take to the streets.

Riiight. More like dozens, or at most hundreds. I'm not worried. We saw just what kind of courage progressives had in Longueuil when the police showed up, or in Alberta when challenged by two rednecks in a truck. And calling for the police to arrest lawbreakers is not violent. It wasn't violent when the RCMP arrested lawbreakers in BC to clear the way for the pipeline, and it need not be violent in Ontario. I think you're simply assuming the natives there are violent savages and that the instant the police try to move them they'll grab their guns and go on the warpath.

Quote

We know the lawlessness and anarchy of trying to survive on a wasting and wasted planet is going to make the chaos you're afraid of seem like a poor quarterly report in comparison.

The planet is fine. It'll still be fine in a century. Stop crying. As for poor quarterly reports and the stock market, it's going to be the coronavirus which hits them, not the native blockade.

Edited by Argus
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7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't fear these the least little bit at all. And I'm quite certain you're terrified of bad press and especially any that talks about our reliability as a supplier to the market.

Yes but you're a conservative Argus and exaggerating your fears, especially of lawlessness just comes naturally to you. There is a vast difference between the sort of criminal lawlessness that conservatives are usually screeching about and political lawlessness that the government is trying to deal with here.  Attempting to conflate the two is a pretty transparent ploy.  

You should be even more fearful of the anarchy that will ensue if your violent prescription for settling this is followed.  It's far bigger than just a few people and I have no hesitation whatsoever predicting hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be galvanized enough to take to the streets.

Then we'd start seeing international headlines for sure and conservatives might want to be careful what they wish for.  If indigenous peoples and environmentalists in other countries saw what was happening here they might be inspired to follow suit.  The role that indigenous people can play in providing a better capacity within a society for environmental protection is very apparent to the environmental movement.  I fully expect you to express nothing but the utmost contempt and scorn for such a view and that's just fine. The more that people see the uglier side of right wing determination that it's going to business as usual vis a vis the environment or else, the better.

We know the lawlessness and anarchy of trying to survive on a wasting and wasted planet is going to make the chaos you're afraid of seem like a poor quarterly report in comparison.

Spoken like your typical real and true Canadian pacifist. Why can't we all just get along and keep talking. Those dam real and true nationalist conservative racists is the problem. Imagine some conservatives demanding that this illegal terrorism be brought to an end by having their illegal Indian blockade butts kicked off some company's property. Maybe we racist conservative white folk should put up blockades ourselves to stop the native Indians from coming on our Canadian land. Give them a bit of a taste of their own blockade medicine. We conservatives do not need them, but they sure as hell need us. 

The lawlessness and anarchy that has been allowed to continue on for over three weeks now will only create more problems for the law abiding Canadians if these illegal blockades do not soon get nipped in the bud soon. Our economy is going in the tank because of this. Enough of this liberal and socialist bs talking, it is now time for some real action. We either want peace and stability or we want anarchy and tyranny. Some members here appear to feel that anarchy and tyranny should be a part of our tradition and solution and encouraged to most or all of other people's so called concerns about whatever their concerned about.  Citizen's of Canada must be allowed to not be interfered with and be able to go about their own business. To stop them from doing so is anarchy and tyranny.  But to say so means that one has to be a racist, right? :unsure:

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My question in this whole thing is where in the blue chesses  is the First nations groups that want all these projects ? where is their voice? 

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19 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes, but you’re a liberal.  Excusing lawlessness comes naturally to you.  Unless of course it’s lawlessness directed toward one of your pet issues or protected peoples.  Regardless, lawlessness is lawlessness.  There is no difference.  When you give people permission to break the law, you get more of it.  It’s a terrible precedent in a civil society.  Perhaps you should be less concerned over the precedent of lawlessness set by leaders of other countries and be more concerned over the precedent of lawlessness you’re setting in you’re own country.  But once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.

Beautifully said. But I doubt very much that what you said will sink into his hard mixed up liberal lefty head. It is liberalism and socialism that is causing all of our problems these days. They both believe in live and let live, and if that includes anarchy and tyranny, and interfering with and getting in the way of other people's lives or trespass on private property, and do so against those they especially despise, well so be it. When was the last time we saw any conservative groups of people cause chaos and havoc like we see these activist lefty liberals keep doing all the time? They truly have become the ANTIFA kind of thug radicals living among us. It will be their way or dam it there will be no way. They have truly shown us all that they are the real bigots and intolerant ones in Canada. Calling them a bunch of hypocrites is putting it mildly. ;)

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41 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes, but you’re a liberal.  Excusing lawlessness comes naturally to you.  Unless of course it’s lawlessness directed toward one of your pet issues or protected peoples.  Regardless, lawlessness is lawlessness.  There is no difference.  When you give people permission to break the law, you get more of it.  It’s a terrible precedent in a civil society.  Perhaps you should be less concerned over the precedent of lawlessness set by leaders of other countries and be more concerned over the precedent of lawlessness you’re setting in you’re own country.  But once a hypocrite always a hypocrite.

It seems that way with some lefties.  Civil disobedence is a damn fine thing, and must be tolerated until those on the wrong side of the law get their own way, as long as the issue is one I  agree with.

I wonder how long they would want the RCMP to wait for dialogue to take effect if those doing the disobeying were Catholics blockading an abortion clinic, or even ordinary concerned citizens blocking traffic in support of their idea of a good immigration policy.

I say some lefties, because I would treat them all the same way.  Give them fifteen minutes to make their point then arrest them.  Unfortunately that means people one agrees with, too. 

Edited by bcsapper
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2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

My question in this whole thing is where in the blue chesses  is the First nations groups that want all these projects ? where is their voice? 

That is a dam good question? Where the hell are they? It is their lives also that is being impacted by these native Indian radicals. They need to speak up and go tell them to smarten up, and get out of the way of jobs and progress. These so called radical hereditary chiefs are causing a lot of problems for themselves, other Indian bands, and for the rest of the people of Canada. We are constantly hearing plenty of voices coming from our dear leader politicians but those voices seem to have a problem with trying to settle this dispute. It is for sure that those radical native Indians are not listening to them. I think that it is high time to treat fire with fire. There needs to be the will to stop them from coming on our non-Indian land for a change until they stop with this radical terrorism, and the need to also start kicking the butts of those radical eco-terrorists who are not helping the problem at all. They are just trying to make things worse. The law of the land is being ignored. It would appear that the new law of the land is anarchy and tyranny, and that is all we seem to be getting now.  

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