Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
Argus

Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, mowich said:

Ah, but 'feeling they should have veto' is a far cry from legally having one now isn't, Zeitgeist and that has been clearly stated by Delgamuukw they don't.  It is interesting that the very same hereditary chiefs making all the noise about the Coastal Gaslink line are also the ones who chose not to go forward with a trial to prove their land claims.  How they could possibly think they have a leg to stand on after abandoning the process is beyond puzzling. 

And that raises questions about whether their land claims would hold up in court.  Maybe they wouldn't hold up because they're weak claims, in which case it pays to stay out of court and make hay out of whatever you can.  Clearly, if they're the ones who walked away from a court settlement, these people can't then claim that it isn't fair for everyone else to proceed with important affairs such as business and infrastructure development without a court settlement.  It's foolish to entertain this nonsense, yet government, business, Indigenous, and non-Indigenous are held hostage by it.  Time to ignore the ridiculousness, enforce the laws, and proceed with completing the approved work.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

What bothers me about it is that everyone of these protesters must somehow make a living.   Who is paying them?   Certainly not the kind of thing the Looney Left Media is about to investigate.  You want to understand the agenda, it's the Golden Rule (i.e., follow the gold).

Tides for one and our gov't for another: 

Shamus O Regan hid,that he paid out $183,000 of our tax dollars to foreign US environmentalists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Tides for one and our gov't for another: 

Shamus O Regan hid,that he paid out $183,000 of our tax dollars to foreign US environmentalists.

 

was that when he was on or off the wagon?    Ah...the Libs pick 'em well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

1 What makes you think I'm white?  Why do you bring race into this?  I'm offended. 

2 News Flash: A matriarchal system is hereditary. 

1 It was a rhetorical question, like yours. But I can't imagine anyone but a right-wing white-superiority complex trying to dictate what another culture 'should' do, as you do. 

2 Not always directly. Again, there is a consensus decision making process among the women of a Clan. It isn't a hierarchical system. 

It isn't directly hereditary like the British Monarchy, and it isn't always the same across different Indigenous Nations, so the term 'traditional' is more appropriate than "hereditary".

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2020 at 9:46 AM, Rue said:

1 I agree with Jacee's interpretation of the law 

2 but don't agree with the methods being used by the railroad blockers.

1 Thanks Rue.

2 The rail interruptions, especially Tyendinaga, are the ONLY thing that has brought the Federal government to the Wet'suet'en table to talk about "rights and title" issues arising from Delgamuukw 1997. ... And the only thing that has brought the BC government to the Wet'suet'en table to carry out the duty of the Crown to consult, and to accommodate their Aboriginal rights and title. Both are long overdue. 

Ya gotta hit'em in the moneybags: Freight.

Edited by jacee
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacee said:

1 It was a rhetorical question, like yours. But I can't imagine anyone but a right-wing white-superiority complex trying to dictate what another culture 'should' do, as you do. 

2 Not always directly. Again, there is a consensus decision making process among the women of a Clan. It isn't a hierarchical system. 

It isn't directly hereditary like the British Monarchy, and it isn't always the same across different Indigenous Nations, so the term 'traditional' is more appropriate than "hereditary".

I've said time and again that Indigenous jurisdictional decisions, including what to do with the funding that comes to them from Canadian taxpayers, should be made by Indigenous.  Indigenous only have jurisdiction over so much, however, including regarding land over which they have title.  I give my opinion only where I can see glaring problems with clear solutions.  Whether or not anyone chooses to take up those solutions is up to them.  Do remember, however, that funding levels of Indigenous Affairs are not in Indigenous hands, on the most part, because the funding comes largely from non-Indigenous.  That's why having a strong economy is so important, for Indigenous and non-Indigenous, as it directly determines whether or not there are more or less funds available.  I will say that when the electorate feels unfairly treated, they tend to react to that with policy and spending priorities, which is why the blockades have not been good for Indigenous, as they just frustrate people trying to conduct business, travel, and live their lives.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacee said:

Ya gotta hit'em in the moneybags: Freight.

Except it is not "their" moneybags.   If the Indians who couldn't be bothered (or have the influence within their OWN ranks) to get back to the treaty table had an issue with government, they should have gone after government.   To cost railroad, farmers, companies and workers literally hundreds of millions of dollars and to turn the country into the laughing stock of the world - they had no right nor reason to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cannuck said:

1 Except it is not "their" moneybags. 

2 If the Indians

3 who couldn't be bothered (or have the influence within their OWN ranks) to get back to the treaty table had an issue with government, they should have gone after government.   

4 To cost railroad, farmers, companies and workers literally hundreds of millions of dollars and to turn the country into the laughing stock of the world - they had no right nor reason to do so.

1 Oh.well.

2 Indigenous people is the respectful term. (Indians are from India)

3 They have tried repeatedly. Governments ignored them. It took the nation wide shutdowns to get BC and federal governments to the table.

4 It worked. Nothing else worked.

Maybe governments will get down to work on long outstanding Indigenous issues a little faster from now on.

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jacee said:

1 Thanks Rue.

2 The rail interruptions, especially Tyendinaga, are the ONLY thing that has brought the Federal government to the Wet'suet'en table to talk about "rights and title" issues arising from Delgamuukw 1997. ... And the only thing that has brought the BC government to the Wet'suet'en table to carry out the duty of the Crown to consult, and to accommodate their Aboriginal rights and title. Both are long overdue. 

Ya gotta hit'em in the moneybags: Freight.

“There are people who are saying that the Delgamuukw decision affirms Gitxsan and Wet’suwet’en title, and that is not correct,” said Geoff Plant, former B.C. attorney general, treaty minister and lawyer for the Crown in the original Delgamuukw trial. “It affirmed that title exists in law but said that the Wet’suwet’en and Gitxsan would essentially need to start all over with a new trial.”

“We’re not talking about proven Aboriginal title,” said Thomas Isaac, author of Aboriginal Law and former chief treaty negotiator for the B.C. government. “We’re talking about asserted title, and we’re talking about the rule of law. And the same courts that recognize Section 35 [Canadian Constitution] rights are the same courts that put limits on those rights. It scoped out what title meant, should it be proven. That decision didn’t prove title. It was sent back to trial.”


"It’s not clear why the Wet’su-wet’en never pressed forward with a second trial. As of press time, a representative for the Office of the Wet’suwet’en could not be reached to comment."

www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/delgamuukw-did-not-settle-the-question-of-wet-suwet-en-title-1.24085622

_______________________






Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Argus said:

What a truly brainless comment. You're almost the cliche of the frenzied far left progressive.

LOL.............wonderfully apt observation there, Argus. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jacee said:

1 Oh.well.

2 Indigenous people is the respectful term. (Indians are from India)

3 They have tried repeatedly. Governments ignored them. It took the nation wide shutdowns to get BC and federal governments to the table.

4 It worked. Nothing else worked.

Maybe governments will get down to work on long outstanding Indigenous issues a little faster from now on.

3 They have tried repeatedly. Governments ignored them.

The hereditary chiefs in question did no such thing.  When they had the chance to take the government to trial after being told they must in order to prove title - they chose not to do so.  Then, they sat on their asses and waited till long after agreements were signed with numerous bands along the line and work was well in progress to say they opposed the deal.  Talk about coming late to the party.  No matter what comes out of the current talks, the hereditary chiefs in question will not gain title to the lands in question until or if they finally go to court and prove their case to the satisfaction of the judges. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mowich said:

The level of support?  Get real.  A majority of those protesting are anything but supporting the obstructionist chiefs - they have agendas that have nothing to do with pipelines or land claims. 

Supporting oil and gas is supporting these guys:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/greta-thunberg-xsite-energy-sexual-image-1.5478561

Rapists of the environment and rapists of children.  They do not even hide it but present it in "art" and are proud of it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

A lobbyist? What are you on about?

Shady's aversions to accountability - anything that interferes in the capacity for lobbyists and politicians/public officials to meet and discuss public domain issues in secret. 

He picked a good forum member name. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you support blockades, your view is fringe and extreme.  Almost a super majority of Canadians are against these types of actions.  So any member on this forum in support of this, should know that they’re essentially anti-Canadian.  Their view is extreme, fringe, and not held by most of Canadians.  

4E9B3FAB-E1DB-4026-AAF4-9646DB60105F.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

 

In the midst of blockades, online sentiment towards both major parties turns sour.

 

These negative numbers for both parties are the highest we have seen. The data suggests that Canadians are engaged on social media about the protests and other political issues, and they are not impressed by the response from the major parties.

Indeed, the third-place NDP is not experiencing anywhere near the negative sentiment, nor the volume, that the two major parties are.

 

No doubt most Canadians would like the blockades to end but I think the above also suggests more Canadians want to see this issue go away as a result of more reconciliation not less.  Canadians seem to be signalling their unhappiness with the slow pace of Liberals to move in this direction, the unwillingness of Conservatives to move at all and that the NDP present the quickest route to reconciliation and ending blockades.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, jacee said:

1 Oh.well.

2 Indigenous people is the respectful term. (Indians are from India)

3 They have tried repeatedly. Governments ignored them. It took the nation wide shutdowns to get BC and federal governments to the table.

4 It worked. Nothing else worked.

Maybe governments will get down to work on long outstanding Indigenous issues a little faster from now on.

2.  They have been under the Indian Act that was administered by Indian Affairs.   That makes the term I have used for the last 70 years and will continue to use: "Indian".  If it offends your politicly correct virtue signalling, so be it.  If some Indians want to be treated respectfully, they will need to earn that right be conducting themselves respectfully, and that is NOT what the Indians involved are doing.

3.  As has been clearly pointed out to you, they stopped trying two years ago.  There is no right or privilege afforded to Indians, Whites, Greens, Browns or WTF other to do what they have done for ANY reason whatsoever.   What I can credit them with is pointing out clearly to Canadians that there is no rule of law in this country for those who are privileged by the PCVS crowd to be allowed to endlessly live outside of said rule of law.

4.  It "worked"????   It worked to show Canadians who bother to take notice that the whole situation is completely out of hand and MUST be rectified - and not by giving any special allowance to some very small minority who don't like the ruling of the courts nor have any respect at all for the laws of this land (that includes these few "hereditary chiefs" and the compete frigging morons who currently occupy cabinet seats.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

No doubt most Canadians would like the blockades to end but I think the above also suggests more Canadians want to see this issue go away as a result of more reconciliation not less.  Canadians seem to be signalling their unhappiness with the slow pace of Liberals to move in this direction, the unwillingness of Conservatives to move at all and that the NDP present the quickest route to reconciliation and ending blockades.  

No, the NDP’s are always the biggest fools who end up the most empty-handed, as they’re the quickest to promise the stars and give away the farm.  Then they’re stuck backtracking until they’re thrown out of office.  It’s too predictable.
The best Rae could offer in his platform for re-election was that we wouldn’t lose health care.  It got that bad, a bare cupboard, hiked taxes, and angry special interest lynch mobs coming to collect what they were promised.  Oh wow, the same could be said for Trudeau. Horgan is also screwed.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Horgan is also screwed.   

I doubt that, the only apparent criticism for Horgan is that he also hasn't moved as fast as Canadians would like to see on reconciliation.

Quote

“Most Canadians feel that the way this ordeal has been handled has hindered the process of reconciliation,” reads a media release from the pollster.

“Four-in-five say that overall, the relationship between Indigenous peoples and Canada has come out worse after the events of the last several weeks, while just 12 per cent see this positively.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6606370/b-c-gives-horgan-poor-marks-on-handling-of-pipeline-dispute-according-to-poll/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, cougar said:

Supporting oil and gas is supporting these guys:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/greta-thunberg-xsite-energy-sexual-image-1.5478561

Rapists of the environment and rapists of children.  They do not even hide it but present it in "art" and are proud of it.

 

 

No it just means their are twisted wingnuts on both sides of the equation, these are the type of people both sides should look at trying to counter their message, casting them to the wingnut side of the house. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, eyeball said:

I doubt that, the only apparent criticism for Horgan is that he also hasn't moved as fast as Canadians would like to see on reconciliation.

 

Yeah Horgan empowered leftist and green fascists who now want their pound of flesh.  This is the result of big-payout land claim precedents, non-state movements like Extinction Rebellion, and socialist central planning dictates such as UNDRIP.  Horgan can’t fight this because he facilitated it.  Once the jobs flee and the public get tired of footing the dole for anarchic activism, the NDP will get run out of town and replaced by a right-leaning government.  Same will happen nationally.  Just a matter of time.  Bob Rae begets Mike Harris.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Once the jobs flee and the public get tired of footing the dole for anarchic activism, the NDP will get run out of town and replaced by a right-leaning government.  Same will happen nationally.  Just a matter of time.  Bob Rae begets Mike Harris.  

Ah so the way you read the commentary and polls that I posted is that the displeasure with the right-leaning parties is that they're nowhere near right-wing enough for Canadians - that Canadians are in the mood for Conservatives becoming more bellicose and demanding that Liberals unshackle the police or the army and crack down hard on these terrorists once and for all?

I doubt it and it sounds to me like you're just knee-jerking in the typical conservative manner of utter denial and hopelessly wishful thinking.  That said, I'd love to see Conservative leadership hopefuls try to out right-wing one another in their bid to lead the base to the promised land, followed by a hard-core campain to rid the country of natives and hippies.   These must seem like the End of Days politically speaking for Canadian right-wingers...everywhere you turn they're boxed in or cornered and losing ground be it climate change action, reconciliation, pipelines, Omar Khadr's compensation, legalized pot, gender bending etc etc...but I see Trudeau is still selling weapons to Saudi Arabia so...just throwing you guys a bone maybe?

Edited by eyeball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ah so the way you read the commentary and polls that I posted is that the displeasure with the right-leaning parties is that they're nowhere near right-wing enough for Canadians - that Canadians are in the mood for Conservatives becoming more bellicose and demanding that Liberals unshackle the police or the army and crack down hard on these terrorists once and for all?

I doubt it and it sounds to me like you're just jerking in the typical conservative manner of utter denial and hopelessly wishful thinking.  That said, I'd love to see Conservative leadership hopefuls try to out right-wing one another in their bid to lead the base to the promised land, followed by a hard-core campaining on ridding the country of natives and hippies.   These must seem like the End of Days politically speaking for Canadian right-wingers...everywhere you turn they're boxed in or cornered and losing ground be it climate change action, reconciliation, pipelines, Omar Khadr's compensation, legalized pot, gender bending etc etc...but I see Trudeau is still selling weapons to Saudi Arabia so...just throwing you guys a bone maybe?

I’m a moderate and have no interest in right or left politics, but only a moron would think terrorist Omar deserves over 10 million in compensation after killing a US serviceman.  It’s insulting both to the family of the victim and our US ally.  
 

If you’ve read any of my posts, I think it’s disgusting how the US enables Saudi dictatorship to protect her oil supply, which is all the more reason we need to maintain energy independence and security.  
 

The thugs sabotaging the railways and their supporters won’t realize the damage they have done until the jobs dry up in their communities for their relatives and friends who like to work for a living and the public has figured out the con.  You’re looking through the wrong end of the microscope.  Reconciliation is dead because of radical sabotage.  What’s more, people have very different ideas of what reconciliation means.  If Canadians think it’s just about getting more stuff whilst biting the hand that feeds, they won’t go for that.  Dress it up in the prettiest sounding language you want.  Facts are facts.  
 

As for your anti-pipeline stance, I don’t disagree that there’s a constituency that thinks the same way, an ignorant one that seems to think that shutting down a natural gas pipeline will stop natural gas and oil distribution.  It won’t.  It will just be transported in a more dangerous way that produces more greenhouse gasses.  
 

The economy will get greener and wise policy can help.  There’s no guarantee that good paying resource jobs will be replaced, especially in the far north and in Indigenous territory.  I want to see Indigenous thrive.  It can only happen with economic prosperity.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...If you’ve read any of my posts, I think it’s disgusting how the US enables Saudi dictatorship to protect her oil supply, which is all the more reason we need to maintain energy independence and security. 

 

The U.S. does not protect Saudi oil for itself...it protects Saudi oil for the world's hydrocarbon economy.

Canada imports over 1 million bpd of oil and distillates from the U.S. and Saudis.

...which makes pipeline politics in Canada so incredibly stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. does not protect Saudi oil for itself...it protects Saudi oil for the world's hydrocarbon economy.

Canada imports over 1 million bpd of oil and distillates from the U.S. and Saudis.

...which makes pipeline politics in Canada so incredibly stupid.

No it isn’t stupid to want energy independence and cleaner distribution.  It’s stupid to be beholden to dictators when it can be prevented.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No it isn’t stupid to want energy independence and cleaner distribution.  It’s stupid to be beholden to dictators when it can be prevented.  

 

Yes, it is incredibly stupid to want energy independence while stopping east-west pipelines.

Oil doesn't care what kind of government is in control.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...