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Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

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4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If you're neither a military member of the US or British armed forces how can you do that?

Aren't you also retired, aka civilian?

As an American, I am an armed individual sovereign charged with defending the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America, by force of arms as necessary.

In addition,  I have undertaken obligations to the British Crown in North America, of my own free will, as is my American prerogative.

 

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5 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

As an American, I am an armed individual sovereign charged with defending the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America, by force of arms as necessary.

Have rifles that give a whole new meaning to that old AT&T advertisement phrase "Reach out and touch someone" . . . . that little .357 pistol-ette of yours  just ain't gonna' cut it.

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1 minute ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Have rifles that give a whole new meaning to that old AT&T advertisement phrase "Reach out and touch someone" . . . . that little .357 pistol-ette of yours  just ain't gonna' cut it.

Oh I've got it all, don't worry, but it's not about the iron, it's all about the shooter.

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On 3/2/2020 at 9:38 AM, Rue said:

 That said the gov. and native leaders seem to have entered into an agreement so everyone go home.

What's the agreement?  Last I heard they were still opposed to the pipeline.

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18 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

As an American, I am an armed individual sovereign charged with defending the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America, by force of arms as necessary.

We can see how it works with 300 million Americans like you, where every now and then someone blows a fuse resulting in a mass shooting.

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8 minutes ago, cougar said:

We can see how it works with 300 million Americans like you, where every now and then someone blows a fuse resulting in a mass shooting.

Come at me bruvs, see what happens : two in the Che Guevara t-shirt, one in the Guy Fawkes mask, Mozambique Drill FTW

Die with my boots on for the Declaration of Independence preamble and associated light of civilization itself, no greater honor.

 

Edited by Dougie93

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Funny thing is, I've been shot at in Toronto, but in all my travels in America, never been shot at once, nobody even drew down on me.

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On 3/2/2020 at 10:03 PM, Dougie93 said:

As an American, I am an armed individual sovereign charged with defending the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America, by force of arms as necessary.

In addition,  I have undertaken obligations to the British Crown in North America, of my own free will, as is my American prerogative.

 

17 hours ago, cougar said:

We can see how it works with 300 million Americans like you, where every now and then someone blows a fuse resulting in a mass shooting.

Thing is I doubt that many people like Dougie93 are among those that "blow a fuse resulting in a mass shooting." I think they have real lives, real families, real agendas in life.

 

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On 3/2/2020 at 10:03 PM, Dougie93 said:

As an American, I am an armed individual sovereign charged with defending the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America, by force of arms as necessary.

In addition,  I have undertaken obligations to the British Crown in North America, of my own free will, as is my American prerogative.

 

Don't you realize that our  Constitution bans grants of titles of nobility?

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20 hours ago, cougar said:

What's the agreement?  Last I heard they were still opposed to the pipeline.

Probable scenario:  Five 'hereditary chiefs' stop pipeline,  twenty elected chiefs and band members strangely silent,  governments drop their pants and shit a mound of tax $$ and give the pipeline to the Indians,  Indians have cash-control-jobs . . . . just the way this fiasco was supposed to play out.  Indians gear-up for the next 'crisis'.  Backed up by the anarchist riff-raff.  Trudeau is a traitor . . . . we've been 'played'.

Edited by Nefarious Banana
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30 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Probable scenario:  Five 'hereditary chiefs' stop pipeline,  twenty elected chiefs and band members strangely silent,  governments drop their pants and shit a mound of tax $$ and give the pipeline to the Indians,  Indians have cash-control-jobs . . . . just the way this fiasco was supposed to play out.  Indians gear-up for the next 'crisis'.  Backed up by the anarchist riff-raff.  Trudeau is a traitor . . . . we've been 'played'.

It’s almost always about the money.  The “environment” is a useful tool in this, just as some climate activists are using the trope of the pure unrepresented Indigenous victim of colonialism as the springboard to fight resource development that the majority of impacted Indigenous actually want.  It’s manipulation not unlike a pharmaceutical company contributing to an election campaign to win favourable legislation.  The public is being duped.  

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4 hours ago, jbg said:

Don't you realize that our  Constitution bans grants of titles of nobility?

America does not desire for Canada to grant any titles, America is simply defending Fortress America, Canada just happens to be inside of our outer perimeter.

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6 hours ago, jbg said:

Thing is I doubt that many people like Dougie93 are among those that "blow a fuse resulting in a mass shooting." I think they have real lives, real families, real agendas in life.

 

Mass shooters are seeking infamy, they are attracted by the mass media, it's just a variation of serial killers, because run o' the mill serial killing became routine.

 I'm perfectly content to be just another face in the ranks of the thin red line, unless the British Crown in North America falls, at which point I am released from my oath.

I am not bound to,  nor do I have any particular allegiance to Canadian Confederation, which is just a trade and defence pact.

I am not bound to,  nor do I have any particular allegiance to the United Kingdom, other than by way of UKUSSA

My oath was simply to the British Crown in North America, and it just happens to be in America's interests to defend it.

Somebody has to do it, because Canadians now,  decline to.

Canadians have become sheep, I am an American sheep dog.

Bear in mind that the strategic threat is interpolar, in Cold War terms, Canada is No Man's Land.

In terms of asymmetry, Canada must be propped up, so it does not become a base from which attacks could be launched against the CONUS

NORTHCOM does not stop at the border, NORTHCOM includes Canada.

Every American is called upon to do their part to defend the republic, their share of the work, in the Well Regulated Militia.

Furthermore, defending Canada is a proud American tradition, 40,000 Americans served in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in the First World War.

And vice versa, 33,000 Canadians served in Vietnam, including my Canadian uncle who flew for the First Team, Air Cav,  65'-66'

1st_Special_Service_Force_SSI.png

Edited by Dougie93

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Look, man, I understand your anger. Imagine yourself going home after a hard day of work from Toronto to Ajax and your train stops in the middle because of the protesters. That got
your attention right. These protestors need a way to get people's attention. One day a story is on the news and the next day its gone. These protesters and fighting for their right. 
The government stole their land and people don't even know the condition these people live in. Bro search up life on reserves, you can experience that for urself. But yeo if u guys want more information on this type of stuff checks out my youtube channel. this week I'm interviewing MP Mark Holland on the pipeline and other stuff. The channel link is below

 

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7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It's almost always all about money...climate activists are using the trope of the pure unrepresented Indigenous victim of colonialism as the springboard to fight resource development that the majority of impacted Indigenous actually want.

Actually its about the power.  Smaller localized jurisdictions with titled sovereignty are a far more powerful means of ensuring local environmental, cultural and social issues will be addressed than can be depended on from distant authorities.  As far as pipelines go the more of these that stand between the source of fossil fuels and the ocean the better.

And you probably thought environmentalists were stupid or something.  That's good, you just keep telling yourselves that.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Actually its about the power.  Smaller localized jurisdictions with titled sovereignty are a far more powerful means of ensuring local environmental, cultural and social issues will be addressed than can be depended on from distant authorities.  As far as pipelines go the more of these that stand between the source of fossil fuels and the ocean the better.

And you probably thought environmentalists were stupid or something.  That's good, you just keep telling yourselves that.

Yes that brand of environmentalist is very stupid.  It’s neither fair nor environmental to want to stop a pipeline that will reduce distribution emissions as well as emissions from coal burning. What’s more, natural gas is a relatively clean fossil fuel that Canada has in abundance.  The majority of people along the pipeline’s route, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, want the pipeline, which will help improve living standards.  In your book, a few loud dissenters should be able to flout approvals and drive away business and jobs.  It’s stupid.  The blockades are also stupid sabotage.  

You won’t understand because you’re among the privileged who gets to wear an image of “environmental consciousness”, though it’s boutique environmentalism, perfect for pasting on an Instagram page with your favourite latte.  The jobs lost won’t touch you or Greta, and the more government can be shamed and blackmailed into bigger concessions and pipeline royalties, the better, right?   Yup, it’s about money and image.  The green extreme get to pat themselves on the back for saving the planet and helping the Indigenous (who couldn’t possibly manage on their own in your book).  It’s a sham.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, Hussain said:

Look, man, I understand your anger. Imagine yourself going home after a hard day of work from Toronto to Ajax and your train stops in the middle because of the protesters. That got
your attention right. These protestors need a way to get people's attention. One day a story is on the news and the next day its gone. These protesters and fighting for their right. 
The government stole their land and people don't even know the condition these people live in. Bro search up life on reserves, you can experience that for urself. But yeo if u guys want more information on this type of stuff checks out my youtube channel. this week I'm interviewing MP Mark Holland on the pipeline and other stuff. The channel link is below

 

Stole their land?  Really?  Move on.  The gradual settlement of Canada happened over hundreds of years when most Indigenous didn’t worry about property, mostly because there were few long-standing permanent settlements.  Can you tell us on which date the land was officially stolen?  I do know there were many treaties.  In some cases treaties weren’t struck, but was it always clear, necessary or desirable to all stakeholders to strike a treaty?  Let the courts look at the evidence.  
 

The Indian Act, status, and the reserve system are broken and should be scrapped, but many Indigenous want to keep them, and there are perks.  
 

I do think Canada should help provide clean drinking water and ensure that it happens.  In some communities the situation is desperate.  However, that still doesn’t address the system’s brokenness.  In fact, it entrenches it further.  This has always been the problem: throwing good money after bad to staunch a wound that won’t heal.  We need a better long term plan.  Teach people to fish.  Provide training when those water purification systems are built and help ensure that local funding and expertise are available to make the repairs and replace the parts.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes that brand of environmentalist is very stupid.

It's very bioregional though and a wise strategy for ensuring local voices are heard first and especially when it comes to big mega developments with a big environmental impact.

Quote

It’s neither fair nor environmental to want to stop a pipeline that will reduce distribution emissions as well as emissions from coal burning. What’s more, natural gas is a relatively clean fossil fuel that Canada has in abundance.

That's an even better reason for curtailing more fossil fuel infrastructure in Canada.  New research is showing that fossil fuels and and natural gas extraction causes significantly more methane than previously estimated - a powerful greenhouse gas that's at least 25 times more potent than CO2.

 

Quote

Methane Emissions from Oil and Gas May Be Significantly Underestimated

Scientific American

 

Quote

The Leaks That Threaten the Clean Image of Natural Gas

Energy companies are producing record volumes of natural gas, thanks in part to the U.S. fracking boom. They have ambitious plans to make the cleaner-burning fuel a big part of the global energy mix for decades to come by sending tankers of liquefied gas around the world.

But growing public concern over leaks and intentional releases of gas and its primary component, methane, threaten to derail the dominance of gas in the new energy world order. 

Methane is far more potent than carbon dioxide in contributing to climate change. That makes it particularly harmful to the environment when it is discharged into the atmosphere.

In the U.S. alone, the methane that leaks or is released from oil and gas operations annually is equivalent to the greenhouse gas emissions from more than 69 million cars, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis using conversion formulas from the Environmental Protection Agency and emissions estimates for 2015 published last year in the journal Science.

Wall Street Journal

 

Quote

The majority of people along the pipeline’s route, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, want the pipeline, which will help improve living standards.  In your book, a few loud dissenters should be able to flout approvals and drive away business and jobs.  It’s stupid.  The blockades are also stupid sabotage.

The blockades are very strategic civil disobedience.  I would argue the majority of people in Canada want meaningful action taken to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels and that includes depending on them for revenues.

 

Quote

You won’t understand because you’re among the privileged who gets to wear an image of “environmental consciousness”, though it’s boutique environmentalism, perfect for pasting on an Instagram page with your favourite latte.  The jobs lost won’t touch you or Greta, and the more government can be shamed and blackmailed into bigger concessions and pipeline royalties, the better, right?   Yup, it’s about money and image.  The green extreme get to pat themselves on the back for saving the planet and helping the Indigenous (who couldn’t possibly manage on their own in your book).  It’s a sham.

Well yeah I expect I'll still show up to the blockade in my gas guzzling limo.

Edited by eyeball

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19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s almost always about the money.  The “environment” is a useful tool in this, just as some climate activists are using the trope of the pure unrepresented Indigenous victim of colonialism as the springboard to fight resource development that the majority of impacted Indigenous actually want.  It’s manipulation not unlike a pharmaceutical company contributing to an election campaign to win favourable legislation.  The public is being duped.  

I see you drank the colonialist divide-and-conquer koolaid delivered by TCEnergy/Coastal GasLink.  

It's certainly "all about the money" to the oil and gas industry and they have the money to spend, buying ads on Facebook to tout the support they've bought from elected Band Councils:

Groups linked to oil companies funded Facebook ads denouncing the rail blockades

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5484039?fbclid=IwAR1nghzJIEFmG2CvpNTvC-kCmy9oKZeezHU5245LKqA-7_5lwCI_RHRJgSc&__twitter_impression=true

The most prolific online advertiser on the pipeline project, by far, is Coastal GasLink itself, which is building the 670-kilometre pipeline that will connect wells in British Columbia to the coast. It has run 80 ads since the start of the year — almost a quarter of all the ads in the data obtained by CBC. It spent roughly $50,000 on ads citing Indigenous support for the pipeline — almost half of all the money spent on Facebook ads about the project and the blockades.

Other big spending astroturf organizations - pretending to be 'grassroots', but really financed by wealthy business and industry - include Canada Action and the 'Proud' groups, both associated with oil and gas and land developers. Also a number of Conservative leadership candidates have bought ads supporting oil and gas and opposing Indigenous protests, Peter McKay the biggest buyer, who calls women "dog" (probably loved the 'rape Greta' decals), fan of helicopter fishing paid for by us, and a supporter of vigilante attacks on Indigenous protests. 

I have a question about those Conservatives using tax deductible (partially publicly funded) campaign funds to buy ads in support of the oil and gas industry: WTF??!! 

(Aside: It's always been  laughable to me how 'war hawk' Conservatives like Scheer, McKay and formerly Harper (or Trump, for that matter) are really not the macho type you'd expect to see in a battle: They're the devious smirking weenies hiding on the sidelines, inciting slow-witted,  gullible people to violence: "Let's you and him fight!"  Lol   But I digress ...)

On the other hand, support by climate activists and other Canadians for Indigenous people fighting the gas pipeline is twofold: 

* concern about fossil fuels' impact on climate change, and other environmental issues (fracking = groundwater contamination, etc)

* concern about governments' inaction in recognizing and addressing Indigenous rights already established in Canadian law. 

They're not wealthy people, industries and politicians trying to cause violence or destroy the world.

They're ordinary people, mostly  living on a shoestring, opposing government and industry's damage to the earth and its peoples.

Edited by jacee

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10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Stole their land?  Really?  Move on.  The gradual settlement of Canada happened over hundreds of years when most Indigenous didn’t worry about property, mostly because there were few long-standing permanent settlements.  Can you tell us on which date the land was officially stolen?  I do know there were many treaties.  In some cases treaties weren’t struck, but was it always clear, necessary or desirable to all stakeholders to strike a treaty?  Let the courts look at the evidence.  
 

The Indian Act, status, and the reserve system are broken and should be scrapped, but many Indigenous want to keep them, and there are perks.  
 

I do think Canada should help provide clean drinking water and ensure that it happens.  In some communities the situation is desperate.  However, that still doesn’t address the system’s brokenness.  In fact, it entrenches it further.  This has always been the problem: throwing good money after bad to staunch a wound that won’t heal.  We need a better long term plan.  Teach people to fish.  Provide training when those water purification systems are built and help ensure that local funding and expertise are available to make the repairs and replace the parts.  

I understand your perspective on the issue and I respect it. Lets say they did not steal their land but does the government still treat indigenous people well. Explain the residential schools and the trauma being faced. 

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2 hours ago, Hussain said:

I understand your perspective on the issue and I respect it. Lets say they did not steal their land but does the government still treat indigenous people well. Explain the residential schools and the trauma being faced. 

Physical and verbal abuse existed in all schools, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, until tighter restrictions and codes of conduct came into effect over the past half century.  
 

Most schools were run by religious orders and churches in the first decades of publicly funded education.  The idea of an educational institution is ecclesiastical and the first universities began as religious institutions.  The path to free education was through the priesthood.  There were no aboriginal schools.  
 

The main reason residential schools existed then is for the same reason they exist today (under Indigenous control):  If you come from a small remote community, you have to move to a larger centre to attend high school.  Depression and substance abuse still exist at Indigenous run schools.  This is where we see the problems with the reserve system, which ties people to remote locations that are not self-sustaining and need to be funded with outside support.  We see this with water and infrastructure challenges.  
 

Were there Indian agents who made Indigenous children attend school?  Yes.  Mandatory education is still considered progressive.  
 

I think it’s too bad that education wasn’t provided in Indigenous languages, but if the education wasn’t provided by Indigenous, what do you expect?

The standards of living were much lower on most reserves and a good education was seen as a way out, as it is today.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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15 hours ago, Hussain said:

Look, man, I understand your anger. Imagine yourself going home after a hard day of work from Toronto to Ajax and your train stops in the middle because of the protesters. That got
your attention right. These protestors need a way to get people's attention. One day a story is on the news and the next day its gone. These protesters and fighting for their right. 
The government stole their land and people don't even know the condition these people live in. Bro search up life on reserves, you can experience that for urself. But yeo if u guys want more information on this type of stuff checks out my youtube channel. this week I'm interviewing MP Mark Holland on the pipeline and other stuff. The channel link is below

 

Aboriginals have exactly the same rights as all other Canadians.  What they don't have the right to is erecting illegal blockades, burning pallets on the tracks and defacing public property.  That is nothing less than criminal activity and the blow-back from their actions is affecting all Aboriginals negatively. 

Canadians are well aware of conditions on many remote reserves which is why the majority of us support their efforts to improve their lives by signing on with resource companies being that it is the only way for them to provide decent jobs which pave the way for other improvements. 

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4 hours ago, jacee said:

I see you drank the colonialist divide-and-conquer koolaid delivered by TCEnergy/Coastal GasLink.  

It's certainly "all about the money" to the oil and gas industry and they have the money to spend, buying ads on Facebook to tout the support they've bought from elected Band Councils:

Groups linked to oil companies funded Facebook ads denouncing the rail blockades

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5484039?fbclid=IwAR1nghzJIEFmG2CvpNTvC-kCmy9oKZeezHU5245LKqA-7_5lwCI_RHRJgSc&__twitter_impression=true

The most prolific online advertiser on the pipeline project, by far, is Coastal GasLink itself, which is building the 670-kilometre pipeline that will connect wells in British Columbia to the coast. It has run 80 ads since the start of the year — almost a quarter of all the ads in the data obtained by CBC. It spent roughly $50,000 on ads citing Indigenous support for the pipeline — almost half of all the money spent on Facebook ads about the project and the blockades.

Other big spending astroturf organizations - pretending to be 'grassroots', but really financed by wealthy business and industry - include Canada Action and the 'Proud' groups, both associated with oil and gas and land developers. Also a number of Conservative leadership candidates have bought ads supporting oil and gas and opposing Indigenous protests, Peter McKay the biggest buyer, who calls women "dog" (probably loved the 'rape Greta' decals), fan of helicopter fishing paid for by us, and a supporter of vigilante attacks on Indigenous protests. 

I have a question about those Conservatives using tax deductible (partially publicly funded) campaign funds to buy ads in support of the oil and gas industry: WTF??!! 

(Aside: It's always been  laughable to me how 'war hawk' Conservatives like Scheer, McKay and formerly Harper (or Trump, for that matter) are really not the macho type you'd expect to see in a battle: They're the devious smirking weenies hiding on the sidelines, inciting slow-witted,  gullible people to violence: "Let's you and him fight!"  Lol   But I digress ...)

On the other hand, support by climate activists and other Canadians for Indigenous people fighting the gas pipeline is twofold: 

* concern about fossil fuels' impact on climate change, and other environmental issues (fracking = groundwater contamination, etc)

* concern about governments' inaction in recognizing and addressing Indigenous rights already established in Canadian law. 

They're not wealthy people, industries and politicians trying to cause violence or destroy the world.

They're ordinary people, mostly  living on a shoestring, opposing government and industry's damage to the earth and its peoples.

In 2013, Wet’suwet’en received $886,959 from Pacific Trail Pipelines.

In 2014, Wet’suwet’en received $504,259 from Coastal Gaslink.

In 2015, Wet’suwet’en received $2,147,042 from Coastal Gaslink and $757,439 from Pacific Trail Pipelines.

In 2016, Wet’suwet’en received $59,109 from Coastal Gaslink and $33,560 from Pacific Trail Pipelines.

In 2017, Wet’suwet’en received $10,000 from Coastal Gaslink Pipelines In 2018, Wet’suwet’en received $13,000 from Coastal Gaslink Pipelines. PLUS government transfers!!!!

After all, it is about the environment!!!

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