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Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

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4 hours ago, mowich said:

What 'wealth'?  The wealth of our country lies in her people. 

That's what's known as social capital and when you couple it with natural capital you have an economy.

You don't have a clue what I just said do you?

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22 hours ago, Shady said:

You can’t shut down activities that aren’t illegal.  I thought you believed in the rule of law?  You picking n choosing again?

All we need is a free market - no corporate welfare for fossil fuels

In this uncertain environment, investors are already shutting down fossil fuels faster than government 'plans' anyway. 

The ball is rolling ... 

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 10:00 AM, Zeitgeist said:

That would cause the worst depression in history, throw most people out of work, slash the supply of essential goods and services, including home heating and power for many/most people.  Oh, and no more lattes for you.  

It's happening anyway. 

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On 3/13/2020 at 1:33 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

No, it would just kill the economy. The juice is nowhere near worth the squeeze, any good it does is far outweighed by the negative.

It's happening anyway. Investors lack confidence.

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1 minute ago, jacee said:

All we need is a free market - no corporate welfare for fossil fuels

In this uncertain environment, investors are already shutting down fossil fuels faster than government 'plans' anyway. 

The ball is rolling ... 

 

Welfare is getting money that you didn’t earn.  Being able to keep more of your own money isn’t welfare.  

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Just now, Shady said:

Welfare is getting money that you didn’t earn.  Being able to keep more of your own money isn’t welfare.  

Public money for fossil fuel corps is welfare.

It distorts the free market. 

Fossil fuels can't survive in a free market, and we need governments to stop propping up fossil fuel profits with our money, and just let them die a natural death.

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4 minutes ago, jacee said:

It's happening anyway. 

A combination of weather, US trade tarrifs (which are not indicative of a free market, the exact opposite), weather, increased US productivity (market supply and demand yes) and decrease of human movement triggered by government policies in response to the virus  have led to lower prices. Prices were going down before the virus. The virus shutting own Chinese movement and industry for a month also triggered a blip downwards across world markets as well. Gas prices going down means less demand due to less work activity. Its all relative. Its not necessarily a good or bad sign.

Market conditions are more often based not on free market supply and demand but consortiums or networks fixing the prices. Free trade has always been an illusion because every nation engages in protectionism of its own businesses. As well stock markets free fall based on panic but eventually rebound. For every dip is a corresponding market correction eventually.

In fact the next generations elite are mow going to make their fortunes  based on the panic. They will by undervalued stocks and sit on them.

The immediate negative impact is on people like me who do not get paid if we do not work. We are the first fatalities extending credit cards.

That causes debt increases and thus the bank lowers interest rates so people can borrow money which is a stop gap not a solution to preventing people going bankrupt.

Real estate sales will slow, travel of course is directly impacted. Anything non essential and recreational or entertainment type business will suffer but then other essential service suppliers will thrive with panic buying and these suppliers will be sending panic emails out on the internet to encourage buying of their products.

Eventually when a vaccine is produced (might take up to a year t make) there will be a rebound to the economy.

Whatever happens, hiding from the virus will not work   Some of the slow down is genuine in an attempt to lower human physical interaction but its half-assed in that its not a solution-it at best tries to slow the transference but it doesn't stop it from existing.

Bottom line-gas prices were already dropping before the virus but yes have been accelerated by reaction to the virus slowing down business activity and human movement:

https://www.thebalance.com/oil-price-forecast-3306219

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/02/three-reasons-for-the-oil-price-drop/

https://moneywise.com/a/why-gas-prices-are-falling

https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/the-real-reason-gas-prices-are-falling

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Rue said:

Some of the slow down is genuine in an attempt to lower human physical interaction but its half-assed in that its not a solution-it at best tries to slow the transference but it doesn't stop it from existing.

I wasn't referring to the virus' effect on fossil fuels. (That's a different thread )

Just investor lack of confidence in fossil fuels, already in progress for some time.

However, re your virus comment above, 

The whole point is to slow down the transmission so health services can keep up. 

 

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1 minute ago, jacee said:

I wasn't referring to the virus' effect on fossil fuels. (That's a different thread )

Just investor lack of confidence in fossil fuels, already in progress for some time.

However, re your virus comment above, 

The whole point is to slow down the transmission so health services can keep up. 

 

Thank you for the clarification. Respect to your response.

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4 hours ago, jacee said:

It's happening anyway. Investors lack confidence.

They lack confidence in the ability to develop oil and build pipelines in the face of an absurd regulatory environment installed by a moronic government which prefers to borrow money rather than expand the economy.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

They lack confidence in the ability to develop oil and build pipelines in the face of an absurd regulatory environment installed by a moronic government which prefers to borrow money rather than expand the economy.

They lack confidence in the viability of fossil fuel investments.

It's inevitable. 

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5 hours ago, jacee said:

It's happening anyway. Investors lack confidence.

Well then let it happen anyway, stop trying to use government coercion to achieve the goal.

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Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Well then let it happen anyway, stop trying to use government coercion to achieve the goal.

There is no reason for pouring our public money into the dying fossil fuel industry.

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1 minute ago, jacee said:

There is no reason for pouring our public money into the dying fossil fuel industry.

Indeed, but there is no reason to pouring our public into the infant green energy industry either. Market Forces FTW.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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On 3/13/2020 at 12:22 PM, Argus said:

Given the efforts these people put into getting to Canada, learning the language, developing skills, working two or three jobs, trying to get ahead... how do you think they'd feel about a group of people unwilling to do any of that, but constantly holding out their hands for more billions by saying "You owe us"? The response I've seen from immigrants is "I don't owe you a damn thing. Get a job."

You talk to immigrants?  

At your anti-immigrant rallies?

 

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11 minutes ago, jacee said:

You talk to immigrants?  

At your anti-immigrant rallies?

 

You really don't know the difference between anti-illegal immigrant and anti-immigrant, do you?

Edited by Yzermandius19

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2 hours ago, jacee said:

They lack confidence in the viability of fossil fuel investments.

They don't lack confidence anywhere else in the world.

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2 hours ago, jacee said:

You talk to immigrants?  

At your anti-immigrant rallies?

Don't go to rallies. Though maybe I should. Probably meet some charming people there - like maybe you in a balaclava, screeching at the top of your voice and waving a communist flag.

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4 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You really don't know the difference between anti-illegal immigrant and anti-immigrant, do you?

No one is illegal.

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1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Illegal immigration is a thing, and being against it doesn't mean you are against immigrants in general.

Refugees arrive, they are processed for status or return.

It's not unusual.

Edited by jacee

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11 hours ago, jacee said:

Refugees arrive, they are processed for status or return.

It's not unusual.

Refugees who follow the rules are perfectly fine, it's those who claim to be "refugees" and aren't, but realize using that excuse is more likely to get them into the country, that is a problem. If you believe everyone claiming to be a refugee is telling the truth, you're very gullible.

Anyway, it's too bad for these pipeline protesters, the Coronavirus panic took away all their press coverage, they must be so pissed.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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On 3/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, Argus said:

They don't lack confidence anywhere else in the world.

Reduction in fossil fuel use and investment is a worldwide phenomenon:

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/study-use-of-oil-other-fossil-fuels-for-power-at-turning-point-in-2019/5317048.html

The use of fossil fuels for making electricity fell in 2019 in the United States, the European Union (EU) and India. At the same time, those areas all produced more electricity than the year before.

That information comes from Tomas Kaberger, a professor at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden.

The United States, the EU and India are three of the top four largest producers of power from fossil fuels, such as coal and oil. Kaberger says the decreases suggest the use of such fuels could soon be coming to an end.

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Reduction in fossil fuel use and investment is a worldwide phenomenon:

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/study-use-of-oil-other-fossil-fuels-for-power-at-turning-point-in-2019/5317048.html

 

The use of fossil fuels for making electricity fell in 2019 in the United States, the European Union (EU) and India. At the same time, those areas all produced more electricity than the year before.

That information comes from Tomas Kaberger, a professor at Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden.

The United States, the EU and India are three of the top four largest producers of power from fossil fuels, such as coal and oil. Kaberger says the decreases suggest the use of such fuels could soon be coming to an end.

Well then they’ll have to stop producing solar and wind farms, as those require power offset through fossil fuel use.  Probably nuclear is the future, with hydro where possible.  Nuclear is expensive and has mixed support from the greens.  Both hydro and nuclear require lots of concrete.  We are carbon footprints.  

The ancient Jainists understood this.  We live at the expense of the universe and each other.  We can get over this and try to mitigate in a reasonable way, or we can be neurotic about it and worry ourselves to a quick death.  The psychotic response is a form of fascism that runs roughshod over people to achieve revolutionary goals.  No thanks.  Some fossil fuels are better than others.  Conservation is good.  Excessive consumption and waste are bad.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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