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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?


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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.

Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.

Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.

It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.

Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.

Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.

Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?

Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?

Why and how does knowledge kill us?

If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?

The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.

This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.

The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.

In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.

Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.

Thoughts?

Regards

DL

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Is Ralph at fault for suggesting they light the signal fire to alert passing ships that ultimately killed the boy. Maybe it was Piggy for lending his specs to ignite it. Possibly it was the fault of boys for being boys and playing instead of monitoring the fire.  

In my opinion, assigning any sort of power, meaning or importance to ancient works of fiction like the bible is asinine. Railing against adults that cling to fairy tales may feel good but it is ultimately a waste of time. Besides the act is kind of like taking a stand against DVDs, fax machines, physical retail outlets, or cable TV. They are all dead or dying anyway. 

Sure it may feel productive to hurl logical arguments at those who believe in magic; but, they aren't impressed or moved by reason or reality. Take pride in your superior respect for evidence and "sucks to your ass-mar"!

 

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12 hours ago, Sagacious said:

Is Ralph at fault for suggesting they light the signal fire to alert passing ships that ultimately killed the boy. Maybe it was Piggy for lending his specs to ignite it. Possibly it was the fault of boys for being boys and playing instead of monitoring the fire.  

In my opinion, assigning any sort of power, meaning or importance to ancient works of fiction like the bible is asinine. Railing against adults that cling to fairy tales may feel good but it is ultimately a waste of time. Besides the act is kind of like taking a stand against DVDs, fax machines, physical retail outlets, or cable TV. They are all dead or dying anyway. 

Sure it may feel productive to hurl logical arguments at those who believe in magic; but, they aren't impressed or moved by reason or reality. Take pride in your superior respect for evidence and "sucks to your ass-mar"!

 

You are basically correct and that is why I focus on harm reduction by trying to have the obtuse look at their homophobic and misogynous religion and reject the genocidal god who created their evil religion.

You are right that logic and reason is beyond their thinking, but I hope their corrupted morality can be healed so as to have them stop discrimination against better than half the planet.

They run from moral discussions more often than not but just the fact that they know they are running away should be teaching them something.

Don't give up. We are not as useless as you think. Sure, our interlocutors may not think, but lurkers do.

I get more positive feed back in P M than on the board.

Successful or not, it is our duty to try to reduce the abuse that religions pile onto innocent victims.

Regards

DL

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Seems to me that Eden was a very boring place, the only thing a little different was that forbidden object. It was curiosity and desire that made her reach out and take that fruit. The first progressive.

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19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Seems to me that Eden was a very boring place, the only thing a little different was that forbidden object. It was curiosity and desire that made her reach out and take that fruit. The first progressive.

Yes, and people forget that the forbidden was education in total as the tree of knowledge includes all possible knowledge.

That may be why Jews see an elevation of man and not a fall in Eden.

Jews get first dibs on interpretation of their myth and not the Christians who reversed the moral of the story from a success for both man and god, to a failure for both.

Regards

DL

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9 hours ago, Sagacious said:

Well said!

I am please you recognize our duty.

Many see their duty as, --- let them believe as they like and just ignore them.

I see that as a shirking of our duty to correct those that are doing a lot of harm with their homophobic and misogynous teachings. 

They also get to teach their children to hate everyone they do. IOW, perpetuate the harm of poor thinking. 

With you mind, I hope you are active in other more religious forums. They need to hear from those like you.

Regards

DL

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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

I suspect it entered the world thru the same process as hydrogen, helium, lithium, etc etc.  You'll find its the same 14 billion light years in any direction you choose to point.  There's probably some cephalopod there wondering the same thing.  The right-wing ones probably ask something similar about virtue.

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20 hours ago, eyeball said:

I suspect it entered the world thru the same process as hydrogen, helium, lithium, etc etc.  You'll find its the same 14 billion light years in any direction you choose to point.  There's probably some cephalopod there wondering the same thing.  The right-wing ones probably ask something similar about virtue.

I agree that it is natural.

Religions today that blame Adam are lying to us.

People will pay more if they feel the unjust false guilt that religions try to foster in us.

Regards

DL

Edited by French Patriot
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