What would the Government do if Toronto did not have clean drinking water?

[Hussain 1]

Can you ever imagine a country like Canada not having clean drinking water? In the 1970s the Canadain government promised to bring clean drinking water to all of Canada. Now in 2020 100% of cities of clean drinking water and 99% of rural areas have clean drinking water. the 1% which is missing is the Indigenous reserves. People living on the reserves don't have access to clean drinking water. They are poorly funded. Now the question of what would the Canadian government do if Toronto had no cleaning drinking water?

BTW if you guys want to know more about me and my youtube channel check it out. I interview high profile politicians including Former PMs and MPs and Senators. 

 

[Dougie93 589]

The Indians assert that they are not even Canadians, but rather sovereign independent states, only the Indian Act states that they are Canada's problem, yet the Indian Act could easily be repealed.   As sovereign independent states, they could then manage their own water supplies, problem solved.

[Moonlight Graham 402]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

The Indians assert that they are not even Canadians, but rather sovereign independent states, only the Indian Act states that they are Canada's problem, yet the Indian Act could easily be repealed.   As sovereign independent states, they could then manage their own water supplies, problem solved.

Of course the problem is they want to have their cake and eat it too.

They don't do well as dependents, but I'm not confident on how well they'd do if they had to start levying their own taxes.

[Dougie93 589]

37 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Of course the problem is they want to have their cake and eat it too.

They don't do well as dependents, but I'm not confident on how well they'd do if they had to start levying their own taxes.

Indeed, and there's actually a division in the ranks of the Indians same as with non Indians

There are right wing Indians who want out of the Indian Act to replace it with property rights, and then there is the NDPIndians who seek to perpetuate the culture of dependency.

[Dougie93 589]

The basic problem for the Indians is that the Indian Act is an apartheid regime which ghettoizes them in collectivist "Reservations"

As with any Projects, they are publicly maintained rather than personally owned.   This is why they become run down, because the public is not a person who has an interest

My house is extremely well maintained, because I own it, it is my interest, whereas housing projects and Indian reservations have no owners to care for them.

Thus the right wing Indians are correct, collectivism is at the core of the problem, sadly, the NDPindians dominate the agenda with their clinging to their ghettos.

The "Cultural Mosaic" in action, learn to deal,  lefties, it's your project, not ours, so don't expect us to bail you out.

Certainly Ottawa is able to steal taxes from me under pain of imprisonment in order to funnel them down the tubes of collectivization.

But in doing so, they have poisoned the well, because I won't do any other thing for them of my own free will, to include any truck or trade with NDPindians

So far as I am concerned, the leftists in Ottawa and on the Indian Reservations can die in a fire and burn in Hell after, as they are my ideological enemies.

As they enjoy the protection of Her Majesty, I am bound to not make war against them, but that is all, I am not bound to assist them in any way.

Same goes for the rest of the Confederation, vive le Quebec libre,  [email protected] Alberta, down with the speech banning, gun grabbing Post National State.

Edited March 5 by Dougie93

[Argus 2,967]

16 hours ago, Hussain said:

Can you ever imagine a country like Canada not having clean drinking water? In the 1970s the Canadain government promised to bring clean drinking water to all of Canada. Now in 2020 100% of cities of clean drinking water and 99% of rural areas have clean drinking water. the 1% which is missing is the Indigenous reserves.

Half the problem with these tiny reserves is the government pays for a water filtration plant and then the chief gives the job of maintaining it to his alcoholic brother in law who does nothing. The filtration plant breaks down, and then everyone blames Ottawa.

[Shady 1,276]

17 hours ago, Hussain said:

Can you ever imagine a country like Canada not having clean drinking water? In the 1970s the Canadain government promised to bring clean drinking water to all of Canada. Now in 2020 100% of cities of clean drinking water and 99% of rural areas have clean drinking water. the 1% which is missing is the Indigenous reserves. People living on the reserves don't have access to clean drinking water. They are poorly funded. Now the question of what would the Canadian government do if Toronto had no cleaning drinking water?

BTW if you guys want to know more about me and my youtube channel check it out. I interview high profile politicians including Former PMs and MPs and Senators. 

 

How did they get clean water before the White Man was around?

[Dougie93 589]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

How did they get clean water before the White Man was around?

Well that's the thing, they didn't.

Contrary to the image of pre-colonial America being a pristine wilderness populated by wood nymphs, it was actually a horrible place, life was cheap and disease was rampant.

This is why they embraced the French, because the French brought Jesus Christ with them,  the Indians quickly converted in the wake.

Life was nasty, brutish and short, war, slavery, torture, epidemic, but their salvation was at hand, the God of the Hebrews was with them, always.

Nobody imposed this upon them, they had the French at their mercy, they could have wiped them out with ease.

 

Edited March 5 by Dougie93

[SkyHigh 26]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

3 hours ago, Shady said:

How did they get clean water before the White Man was around?

Well that's the thing, they didn't.

Or maybe their developed immune systems allowed them to drink the water. It's us "Europeans" that need such heavily treated water. My girls half sister from Mexico can drink tap water here, we drink bottled water there

[Dougie93 589]

2 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Or maybe their developed immune systems allowed them to drink the water. It's us "Europeans" that need such heavily treated water. My girls half sister from Mexico can drink tap water here, we drink bottled water there

That is not the case, more recent study of skeletons dating back a 1000 years show that the health of the Indians was in sharp decline, before the Europeans arrived.

[cannuck 456]

What would Torontonians do if they didn't have clean drinking water?   Why, they would simply do what the DID.   From within the sciences their ancestors brought from Yurp and continued to advance in their own educational  and research institutes,  they would devise ways to treat the available water to a drinkable standard. Then they would draw upon their history and development of technology to manufacture those things and install them.  Then, they would call upon their system of LOCAL government to tax the residents who received the water - from who's resources was also coming all of the science, technology, production and management to install same.

If anyone on a reserve could even begin to figure out how to get off their ass, they could have all of the drinking water they could ever need either by maintaining what was already provided for them or simply using their endless resources of time and Ottawa's money to do it themselves.  Instead, they have learned to whine to a drama teacher (queen) to somehow magically pull a water treatment out his arse when his greatest accomplishment to date has been to...well...wait a minute...he actually has yet to accomplish ANYTHING except to be an embarrassment to the country.

[Dowell 3]

The problem is that Canadian policy is based on racism. I pay taxes because I am not of the valid race. If I break the law I will be  arrested, because I am one of the Invasive races. If my children go to university they pay their own way. Students who are of the valid race go for free, not based on need, based on race. Canada should be free of policy that treats people of different races differently. We should not believe that racism is okay if the intentions are good. Racism is wrong and evil always.

[Michael Hardner 631]

5 hours ago, Dowell said:

 Canada should be free of policy that treats people of different races differently.  

I guess if we were free of that policy back when they were kidnapping first nations children and abusing them, we might be having that conversation today.

But it's pretty transparent that treating the races "equally' today actually isn't as fair as it sounds.  Unless you think that they are the authors of their own misfortunate, which I bet you do.

[Moonlight Graham 402]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I guess if we were free of that policy back when they were kidnapping first nations children and abusing them, we might be having that conversation today.

But it's pretty transparent that treating the races "equally' today actually isn't as fair as it sounds.  Unless you think that they are the authors of their own misfortunate, which I bet you do.

I think we should pay out first nations for that abuse etc, and then treat people of races the same.  We shouldn't be helping aboriginals because of their race, we should be helping them because a lot of them live in poverty and need help, education, healthcare, infrastructure incl. clean water.

That also doesn't mean we can't acknowledge past abuse or what they mean to our national heritage and history.

[Moonlight Graham 402]

5 hours ago, Dowell said:

The problem is that Canadian policy is based on racism. I pay taxes because I am not of the valid race. If I break the law I will be  arrested, because I am one of the Invasive races. If my children go to university they pay their own way. Students who are of the valid race go for free, not based on need, based on race. Canada should be free of policy that treats people of different races differently. We should not believe that racism is okay if the intentions are good. Racism is wrong and evil always.

Racism is built into the Charter of Rights. Affirmative action is in there, and protected.

[Michael Hardner 631]

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

1. I think we should pay out first nations for that abuse etc, and then treat people of races the same. 

2. We shouldn't be helping aboriginals because of their race, we should be helping them because a lot of them live in poverty and need help, education, healthcare, infrastructure incl. clean water.

3. That also doesn't mean we can't acknowledge past abuse or what they mean to our national heritage and history.

1. I applaud you for wanting to make amends.  I roughly agree, except: 1) giving a damaged person, or people money isn't always the best way to heal and 2) I would treat people the same after they became the same.  eg. The Irish.  Go ahead and make an Irish joke anywhere today.  No one will report you to HR.

2. Semantics but again I agree.

3. 3 in a row - you get a free banjo.

 

[Moonlight Graham 402]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I applaud you for wanting to make amends.  I roughly agree, except: 1) giving a damaged person, or people money isn't always the best way to heal and 2) I would treat people the same after they became the same.  eg. The Irish.  Go ahead and make an Irish joke anywhere today.  No one will report you to HR.

If a black person made a joke about the Irish, why couldn't the Irish person get upset if it offends them?

How are we going to have people be the same unless we treat everyone the same?  Groups will never have the same results in education or income, it's never going to happen for many reasons, even if racism is 100% eliminated.

Jews and Asians have high education and incomes despite racism and no special treatment.  Why?  Their parents make them study hard.

[Dowell 3]

You are right in saying that there have been many abuses in the past, we can’t change that. Keeping score, and revenge for past injustices is what led to ethnic cleansing in the Balkins, genoside in Rawanda, and terrorist attacks around the globe. You don’t fight racism with more racism.we should remember the past so we can hopefully do better in the future. What we need to do now is make the best Canada for everyone. 

thinking that anyone who disagrees with you is a lesser person, and that you know what they think is a sign of arrogance, and could be expected in someone who embraces racism.

[Michael Hardner 631]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. If a black person made a joke about the Irish, why couldn't the Irish person get upset if it offends them?

2. How are we going to have people be the same unless we treat everyone the same? 

3. Groups will never have the same results in education or income, it's never going to happen for many reasons, even if racism is 100% eliminated.

4. Jews and Asians have high education and incomes despite racism and no special treatment.  Why?  Their parents make them study hard.

1.  I don't know the answer.  Certainly I didn't say people couldn't get upset.  I said they likely wouldn't.

2. We shouldn't treat everyone the same if some people need more help because of the group they belong to has been harmed and set back.

3. Racism won't be 100% eliminated and groups won't be 100% equal.  Irish people are indeed different from Jews, from Italians etc.  Some may make more money, some may tend to different trades.  Perfect equality isn't actually the goal here, it's lifting people up from a low point.

4. RIght.  So what would you like to do with that fact ?

[Moonlight Graham 402]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. We shouldn't treat everyone the same if some people need more help because of the group they belong to has been harmed and set back.

3. Racism won't be 100% eliminated and groups won't be 100% equal.  Irish people are indeed different from Jews, from Italians etc.  Some may make more money, some may tend to different trades.  Perfect equality isn't actually the goal here, it's lifting people up from a low point.

4. RIght.  So what would you like to do with that fact ?

2.  How do we measure that?  If you're going to discriminate against one group to lift another up that has been discriminated against, you had better have some kind of measurement of that discrimination so you can respond fairly.  Personally I think its BS to cure discrimination with more discrimination.  And what about the non-whites who discriminate against whites and others not of their race/ethnicity?  Other ethnicities are as or more racist than white Canadians.

3. And what if lifting people up from a low point isn't due to discrimination?  ie: Jamaican-Canadians make less money than white Canadians and Asian-Canadians and South-Asian Canadians.  It's not because they have been discriminated against, it's because they have inferior education in Jamaica and Jamaican parents don't stress studying like Asian, Jamaican, or even South Asian parents do.

The average incomes for South Asians in Canada is $4,000 less than the national average.  Is that due to racism?  Due to foreign education credentials not being up to par with Canadian standards?  The fact that they have been in Canada for less time and haven't built careers?  That they are younger in age on average?  We need to study it and find out, using social science.  If you're going to discriminate against people, you need evidence and data.

Aboriginals...how do we measure what government policies have to done to stunt their outcomes?  They have been abused and racialized.  They also often live in rural environments with little industry.  Aboriginals were uneducated, illiterate, and had no writing system/alphabet of their own when Europeans met them, how much of that legacy is a factor?  I'm more sympathetic towards aboriginals since they were clearly discriminated against and abused systematically by government and their outcomes are low.

4.  You can escape poverty and low outcomes by studying hard and getting an education, and then a good-paying job.  My friend who is Asian has parents who are refugees, they have little money and live in one of the poorest parts of town, but the parents made them study hard, they got into the top university in Canada and then into a top ivy league school in US and is now making far more than I am.  Racism is not a significant barrier anymore, it can be a minor barrier sometimes, but it won't stop you from succeeding.  Your actions and the actions of your parents will mainly determine your outcomes.  What we also need to do is make sure people have access to adequate education, in aboriginal communities etc.

[Michael Hardner 631]

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  How do we measure that?   

2. Personally I think its BS to cure discrimination with more discrimination. 

3. The average incomes for South Asians in Canada is $4,000 less than the national average.  Is that due to racism? 

4.  If you're going to discriminate against people, you need evidence and data.

5. Aboriginals...how do we measure what government policies have to done to stunt their outcomes?  

1.  We can measure it.  Are you asking because you think we're unable to determine if some groups are doing much worse ?  Remember we're talking about "treating groups equally" vs. helping people.
2.  Since you brought up the concept of treating people "100 % equally", I'm sure you can see that that itself is impossible.  Therefore all behaviour is discriminatory.   I don't actually think that - it's just a response to you retreating from the question of how to help people through philosophical asides like what is equality etc.  If a group is in trouble, you help them.  Indians were segregated from day 1 in this country, and it wasn't because they were being treated by royalty.   We make amends.  If our methods don't work, we try something else. 
3. I think I already answered that.  
4. We can find that.
5. You don't always need to fund a study for everything... eg. to determine if the sky is blue.

We agreed on helping them a few posts back and now you are in this head-scratching mode trying to figure out what is the meaning of "is".  It's just not an interesting question to me.  If you have new ways to help groups then put those forward.  I often think about the change in Quebec from the quiet revolution to present day and all of the forces involved in that change.

[Moonlight Graham 402]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  We can measure it.  Are you asking because you think we're unable to determine if some groups are doing much worse ?  Remember we're talking about "treating groups equally" vs. helping people.
2.  Since you brought up the concept of treating people "100 % equally", I'm sure you can see that that itself is impossible.  Therefore all behaviour is discriminatory.   I don't actually think that - it's just a response to you retreating from the question of how to help people through philosophical asides like what is equality etc.  If a group is in trouble, you help them.  Indians were segregated from day 1 in this country, and it wasn't because they were being treated by royalty.   We make amends.  If our methods don't work, we try something else. 
3. I think I already answered that.  
4. We can find that.
5. You don't always need to fund a study for everything... eg. to determine if the sky is blue.

We agreed on helping them a few posts back and now you are in this head-scratching mode trying to figure out what is the meaning of "is".  It's just not an interesting question to me.  If you have new ways to help groups then put those forward.  I often think about the change in Quebec from the quiet revolution to present day and all of the forces involved in that change.

1.  No, i'm asking if some groups are doing worse because of discrimination or other factors.  If a group is doing worse because of discrimination, let's help them.  If a group is doing worse because they don't study as hard, let's help them help themselves, but i'm certainly not going to just give them jobs they don't deserve while denying other people jobs.

2.  I'm talking about racial/ethnic discrimination, which is a human rights violation.

5.  You do if you're going to discriminate against people and deny them jobs in favour of others.  Aboriginals have structural, large problems they face.  They need education, they need to live closer to cities in order to have good jobs and make more money.  Part of the problem is they choose to live in the middle of nowhere, away from cities and jobs.  I'll help fund their education, just like any poor person, but i don't think we should be giving them jobs when they aren't the most qualified, same with school admissions.

They shouldn't pay GST because they're poor, not because of the group they belong.  JWR is a wealthy aboriginal, a lawyer, she should pay GST.

Treating racial groups as X or Y is also illogical.  These aren't unified groups, each individual experiences different things.  There are aboriginals who went to those residential schools and got abused, there are those that didn't, we should treat the ones who got abuses differently because they need more help.  They deserve money and counseling, and the others don't.  I don't agree with treating ethnic groups differently based on the group they belong, better or worse. It is a human rights violation, it is prejudice.  You're an individual human being and I'll treat you as such.  F*** racial and gender quotas.  Biden wants to choose a woman running mate.  Why?  Choose the best person for the job, if they're a woman that's great. What their genitals look like is far less important than their policy positions, intelligence, temperament etc.  Who would want charity anyways, i'd want to know i earned it?

[Dowell 3]

I think that it is time that original peoples choose what nationality they are. If they believe that they are not subject to Canadian laws, or obligated to pay Canadian taxes, because they are a separate and independent nation then they shouldn’t be entitled to Canadian social assistance, education and medical services. These should be reserved for Canadians.  Choose one.

[Michael Hardner 631]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

5.  You do if you're going to discriminate against people and deny them jobs in favour of others.  Aboriginals have structural, large problems they face.  They need education, they need to live closer to cities in order to have good jobs and make more money.  Part of the problem is they choose to live in the middle of nowhere, away from cities and jobs.  I'll help fund their education, just like any poor person, but i don't think we should be giving them jobs when they aren't the most qualified, same with school admissions.

5. You're strawmanning now, so I think we may be at the end of the discussion.

A few posts ago we had some general principles we agreed on, then you dived down into a bunch of detailed stuff - now apparently including affirmative action - which I didn't even bring up.  I guess there aren't as many good posters here to talk to, dunno.