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Will it be the virus that takes Trump down?


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12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Tell that to China, which has three times the population of the US but less than a third of the deaths —.so far.  

Lol, yes, like China’s numbers are reliable.  Plus, do you think the United States should be burning people alive to?  I hear it puts quite a dent in the virus spreading! :lol:

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Trump plays back the words of the mainstream media from January and February downplaying the virus at today’s briefing.  He also played back Democrats own words from January, February and March downpl

This is what Trump is up against 

Americans don't trust government to solve all their problems...it is not like it is in Canada. Trumpers know the damn govmint usually hoses things up anyway. Just need canned food, water, to

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On 4/11/2020 at 9:17 PM, OftenWrong said:

You better make sure you qualify any suspicious looking statements about the virus with unconditional respect and acknowledgement of its power. Lest ye become vilified, like me. I was disrespectful to the virus. 

No you're just wilfully blind to it and disrespectful to anyone who refuse to close their eyes too.

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The mainstream media continues to be intellectually dishonest to spin anything they can in an effort to hurt Trump.  When reporting on number of cases they use gross totals so that they can say American had the most.  But when it comes to testing they switch to per capita, so that it doesn’t look as good.  Because if they used gross totals of tests, American would be ranked first.  So depending on what’s worst for Trump, they switch back and forth between per capita and gross numbers.  It’s completely pathetic.

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7 minutes ago, Shady said:

The mainstream media continues to be intellectually dishonest to spin anything they can in an effort to hurt Trump.

Well, I guess it would be a little gauche to just come right out and ask why someone hasn't had Trump taken out back and shot.

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5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well, I guess it would be a little gauche to just come right out and ask why someone hasn't had Trump taken out back and shot.

Probably because it’s wrong and illegal.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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8 minutes ago, Shady said:

Probably because it’s wrong and illegal.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Hence the reason they do the correct and legal thing instead.  You could have answered that yourself had you thought about it for a second.

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52 minutes ago, Shady said:

The mainstream media continues to be intellectually dishonest to spin anything they can in an effort to hurt Trump.  When reporting on number of cases they use gross totals so that they can say American had the most.  But when it comes to testing they switch to per capita, so that it doesn’t look as good.  Because if they used gross totals of tests, American would be ranked first.  So depending on what’s worst for Trump, they switch back and forth between per capita and gross numbers.  It’s completely pathetic.

You want to cite that? 

The only time I've heard Testing per capita referenced is when Trump claims the US is testing more than anyone as a brag. So Trump is the one that's being intellectually dishonest. If you want to solely focus on Gross testing, then you'd have to also admit that the US has 4 times the gross cases of any other nation. 

No matter which way you slice the numbers, the US looks bad.

The grim figure is deaths. That can't be massaged by testing figures. Only the notable European nations have worse figures Per million. And those aren't nations anyone should be looking to emulate as their failing to act was the impetus to enact a shut down of the economy. 

Edited by Boges
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31 minutes ago, Boges said:

You want to cite that? 

The only time I've heard Testing per capita referenced is when Trump claims the US is testing more than anyone. So Trump is the one that's being intellectually dishonest. If you want to solely focus on Gross testing, then you'd have to also admit that the US has 4 times the gross cases of any other nation. 

No matter which way you slice the numbers, the US looks bad.

The grim figure is deaths. That can't be massaged by testing figures. Only the notable European nations have worse figures Per million. And those aren't nations anyone should be looking to emulate as their failing to act was the impetus to enact a shut down of the economy. 

Yes but it varies state to state.  California is doing a bit better than Canada on a per capita basis, but New York State brings up the overall US numbers just as Quebec brings up the overall Canadian numbers.  You really have to look state to state and province to province.  However, federally Canada has taken a more stringent and careful public health approach than the US feds. However, the US is a much bigger country and New York City is a much bigger city than any Canadian city, so comparisons break down. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes but it varies state to state.  California is doing a bit better than Canada on a per capita basis, but New York State brings up the overall US numbers just as Quebec brings up the overall Canadian numbers.  You really have to look state to state and province to province.  However, federally Canada has taken a more stringent and careful public health approach than the US feds, however, the US is a much bigger country, so comparisons break down. 

Certainly. 

Like with anything, statistics can be manipulated to tell different stories. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

This site allows you to break the numbers down by state. Because New York has tested many more people, it would indicate the actual cases are being underreported elsewhere. 

IMHO Gross figures in regarding to testing and cases are largely irrelevant at this point. 

Deaths, Death per capita and hospitalizations are the only real way to accurately gauge how a country is handling the outbreak. 

I don't think any Western Country has the test capabilities to test people with mild or absent symptoms. So we'll be largely blind until a widely available anti-body test is available. 

Edited by Boges
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38 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

However, federally Canada has taken a more stringent and careful public health approach than the US feds. 

Do you have examples of this at the federal level? I'm not aware of any.

The main differences that I notice are that the US closed down travel from the covid hotspots and that they actually conducted screening at their airports. We never did either of those things until both countries were shutting down completely.

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9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you have examples of this at the federal level? I'm not aware of any.

The main differences that I notice are that the US closed down travel from the covid hotspots and that they actually conducted screening at their airports. We never did either of those things until both countries were shutting down completely.

You just have to look at the public messaging differences between the two countries.  For about three weeks now our chief public health officer has been advertising the importance of social distancing, hand washing, and staying home for everyone.  The advertising has been incessant.  Only recently has the US Surgeon General put out public health announcements, and they’re mostly geared to people over 65 and people with health conditions.  We were given firm directions weeks ago about staying home and calling public health if we have symptoms.  

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Trump's claim that a China ban was helpful is mostly bunk. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-snowballing-china-travel-claim/

Quote

 

Another study published in March in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences similarly found that travel restrictions and airport screenings in several countries “likely slowed the rate of exportation from mainland China to other countries, but are insufficient to contain the global spread of COVID-19.”

The researchers, mostly with the Yale School of Public Health, said that “rapid contact tracing” was “essential” to limit person-to-person spread.

The study did find that the travel lockdowns put in place in Wuhan and Hubei province lowered the daily rate of exportation of cases from China by 81.3% on average by Feb. 15. “At this early stage of the epidemic, reduction in the rate of exportation could delay the importation of cases into cities unaffected by the COVID-19 outbreak, buying time to coordinate an appropriate public health response,” the study said.

 

It may have delayed the outbreak but didn't stop it. And it's well documented that testing in the US was extraordinarily slow to get off the mark. 

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53 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You just have to look at the public messaging differences between the two countries.  For about three weeks now our chief public health officer has been advertising the importance of social distancing, hand washing, and staying home for everyone.  The advertising has been incessant.  Only recently has the US Surgeon General put out public health announcements, and they’re mostly geared to people over 65 and people with health conditions.  We were given firm directions weeks ago about staying home and calling public health if we have symptoms.  

 

U.S. messaging started long before that at the state level.   U.S. governors have the most impact and jurisdiction for each state, no matter what Trump says.

The U.S. Surgeon General began PSAs for COVID19 at least by March 12, and maybe sooner, so you are mistaken about that.

 

https://wgno.com/news/health/coronavirus/psa-from-gov-john-bel-edwards-and-surgeon-general-dr-jerome-adams-on-covid-19/

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You just have to look at the public messaging differences between the two countries.  For about three weeks now our chief public health officer has been advertising the importance of social distancing, hand washing, and staying home for everyone.  The advertising has been incessant.  Only recently has the US Surgeon General put out public health announcements, and they’re mostly geared to people over 65 and people with health conditions.  We were given firm directions weeks ago about staying home and calling public health if we have symptoms.  

So you don't have an example, you just made the statement based on a broad assumption.

The fact is that the US did more to block travellers with the virus, they did more to screen travellers who potentially had the virus, and after that it's basically the exact same.

It's time to stop making the claim that "Trudeau did more to protect Canadians from covid than Trump did" because it's patently false.

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1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

So you don't have an example, you just made the statement based on a broad assumption.

The fact is that the US did more to block travellers with the virus, they did more to screen travellers who potentially had the virus, and after that it's basically the exact same.

It's time to stop making the claim that "Trudeau did more to protect Canadians from covid than Trump did" because it's patently false.

I gave you a concrete example of the difference in public awareness campaigns.  I also now hear that Trump is floating the threat to fire Fauci because of his honesty about the impact of late measures.  It’s irresponsible.  

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I gave you a concrete example of the difference in public awareness campaigns.  I also now hear that Trump is floating the threat to fire Fauci because of his honesty about the impact of late measures.  It’s irresponsible.  

 

So was this:

Quote

Coronavirus risk remains low in Canada despite rise in cases, health officials say

Chief public health officer Dr. Theresa Tam noted Friday that most of the cases in Canada have been mild, and the patients are self isolating at home. About seven people are in hospital, but she said that doesn’t necessarily mean they are severely ill, adding that Canada is well equipped to deal with the outbreak.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6644667/coronavirus-risk-low-canada/

 

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I gave you a concrete example of the difference in public awareness campaigns.  I also now hear that Trump is floating the threat to fire Fauci because of his honesty about the impact of late measures.  It’s irresponsible.  

The US Covid task force had briefings every day, usually for an hour or more, and gave all the proper advice for social distancing and hygiene. The Canadian government DID NOT DO more than the US gov't in that regard. Your concrete example wasn't backed with links, or facts, just your own opinion, and your opinion was just wrong. 

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Just now, WestCanMan said:

The US Covid task force had briefings every day, usually for an hour or more, and gave all the proper advice for social distancing and hygiene. The Canadian government DID NOT DO more than the US gov't in that regard. Your concrete example wasn't backed with links, or facts, just your own opinion, and your opinion was just wrong. 

 

True enough....Canadians learned who Dr. Fauci was at an early date.  

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7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The US Covid task force had briefings every day, usually for an hour or more, and gave all the proper advice for social distancing and hygiene. The Canadian government DID NOT DO more than the US gov't in that regard. Your concrete example wasn't backed with links, or facts, just your own opinion, and your opinion was just wrong. 

Those meetings are a proxies for Trump rallies. 

Trump chastises reporters for not asking nice enough questions. 

Edited by Boges
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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

True enough....Canadians learned who Dr. Fauci was at an early date.  

You tend to remember a person in the Trump Administration that seems capable. So few are left. 

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Just now, Boges said:

You tend to remember a person in the Trump Administration that seems capable. So few are left. 

 

I don't know why Canadians know so much about U.S. public health officials...just more voracious consumption of U.S. media I guess.

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It's weird that people are playing the hindsight game as to what "was" done as if that means anything when you look at all current metrics evaluating how each country has handle the outbreak going forward. 

It's as if banning people from China is immunity of any political consequences of the catastrophic loss of life the US is experiencing right now. 

Edited by Boges
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