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Will it be the virus that takes Trump down?


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Trump plays back the words of the mainstream media from January and February downplaying the virus at today’s briefing.  He also played back Democrats own words from January, February and March downpl

This is what Trump is up against 

Americans don't trust government to solve all their problems...it is not like it is in Canada. Trumpers know the damn govmint usually hoses things up anyway. Just need canned food, water, to

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3 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

How about vinegar?

Vinegar stinks. When I was in the navy they used to use vinegar in spray bottles to wipe down the tables. I still like vinegar on my food but I can't stand vinegar as a cleaning product.

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10 minutes ago, Shady said:

Andrew Cuomo says Trump is right about the World Health Organization!

It's pretty sad that it takes for a Dem politician to say it for some people to believe it. That's the exact opposite of the way it should work.

Just simply explaining that they were dead wrong about the masks when it's old info that has been proven by science for decades should be enough for people t question the WHO. 

Just simply explaining that they were dead wrong about whether or not we should be blocking travellers who are potentially carrying the disease when it's just basic viral quarantine strategy should be enough for people t question the WHO. 

Just simply explaining that they were dead wrong about H2H transmission when the Chinese gov't already had the info should be enough for people t question the WHO. 

Nope, Demmies still deny it until they hear it from one of their own.

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13 hours ago, Boges said:

But all he does is talk. He spends 2 hours talking. I saw him trying to convince a guy on his team that sunlight would kill the virus in parks because the weather was getting warmer. The sun shines in the winter time too!

There are more hours of daylight in the summer than winter. This is the reason why we have seasonal temperature change, warm in summer, cool in winter. It's the number of sunlight hours. Increased sunshine and warmer summer temperatures are well known to reduce the spread of viruses, already known for like centuries. But here's a more recent link.
Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences
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At 43°F with very low humidity, most of the virus was able to survive more than 23 hours, whereas at high humidity and a temperature of 90°F, survival was diminished at even one hour into incubation (3).

Edited by OftenWrong
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12 hours ago, Shady said:

Andrew Cuomo says Trump is right about the World Health Organization!

 

 

I recall waldo kicking in your teeth on this one and you slinking away with your tail between your legs when he asked you whether Cuomo said Trump was right to withdraw funding or just right to question them.

I'll allow you to continue slinking. :lol:

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2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

I recall waldo kicking in your teeth on this one and you slinking away with your tail between your legs when he asked you whether Cuomo said Trump was right to withdraw funding or just right to question them.

Questioning WHO is certainly valid.

Withdrawing funds does not help to improve WHO. 

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14 minutes ago, jacee said:

Questioning WHO is certainly valid.

Withdrawing funds does not help to improve WHO. 

The reality is that the WHO did provide important warnings, information, international coordination, and test kits.  The masks question was controversial because there was worry that people might think wearing masks is a cure-all, and since the supply was so limited, it was critical that masks went to health workers first and foremost.  Early detection, isolation, and quarantining were the important messages.  Countries that followed that advice have done relatively well.  Travel bans had to be universal to be effective, but once the virus is among a population, those bans aren’t as effective without the measures I mentioned.  You also had the problem of bringing citizens home.  A certain amount of international travel was necessary for people’s safety.  

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17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The reality is that the WHO did provide important warnings, information, international coordination, and test kits.  The masks question was controversial because there was worry that people might think wearing masks is a cure-all, and since the supply was so limited, it was critical that masks went to health workers first and foremost.  Early detection, isolation, and quarantining were the important messages.  Countries that followed that advice have done relatively well.  Travel bans had to be universal to be effective, but once the virus is among a population, those bans aren’t as effective without the measures I mentioned.  You also had the problem of bringing citizens home.  A certain amount of international travel was necessary for people’s safety.  

 

Sorry, but the WHO provided bad policy direction for both masks and travel bans, regardless of the difficulties involved.    New York could have benefited from more time to get its act together if travel from Europe had been suspended and political leaders had firm backing from the WHO.   People are making millions of their own masks at home or in community settings to even have more for health care workers.

Countries that trust the WHO so much can pony up their own bucks to be the largest donor.

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18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but the WHO provided bad policy direction for both masks and travel bans, regardless of the difficulties involved.    New York could have benefited from more time to get its act together if travel from Europe had been suspended and political leaders had firm backing from the WHO.   People are making millions of their own masks at home or in community settings to even have more for health care workers.

Countries that trust the WHO so much can pony up their own bucks to be the largest donor.

I disagree.  First off, travel bans are national decisions.  Canada continued international flights after the US bans on China and Iran.  Don’t forget that the areas most impacted by C-19 in China were still under a form of quarantine.  If the virus was in the US as far back as December, it would have been very hard for the government to justify travel bans with so few cases.  The success stories are clear.  South Korea is so successful because of early detection, contact tracing, and quick isolation.  For countries less prepared, with less testing capacity, and less opportunity for surveillance like the US, strong national public health policy was the next best defence.  It came rather late and rather soft.   What’s more, without the WHO test kits or much testing capacity the US had to play catch-up.  The CDC has followed rather than led.  The warnings of future waves and possible immunity challenges were identified and publicized by the WHO.  It’s also hard for your agencies to function effectively with so much politicization and a leader who feels the need to weigh in on subjects where he doesn’t have expertise.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I disagree.  First off, travel bans are national decisions.  Canada continued international flights after the US bans on China and Iran.  Don’t forget that the areas most impacted by C-19 in China were still under a form of quarantine.  If the virus was in the US as far back as December, it would have been very hard for the government to justify travel bans with so few cases. 

 

Doesn't matter....the imported spread could have been delayed by weeks with travel bans, regardless of what happened in China.   Europe was becoming a bigger vector into North America than was China.   To maintain that travel bans would not have slowed the spread ignores the march across the globe that we all witnessed in slow motion.

 

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The success stories are clear.  South Korea is so successful because of early detection, contact tracing, and quick isolation.  For countries less prepared, with less testing capacity, and less opportunity for surveillance like the US, strong national public health policy was the next best defence.  It came rather late and rather soft.   What’s more, without the WHO test kits or much testing capacity the US had to play catch-up.  

 

Most of the world was "less prepared" and the WHO test kits were few in number.   Europe has fared no better than the U.S., and in some ways it is worse.

Even Dr. Tam in Canada finally reversed course on masks when it became obvious to do so.

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18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter....the imported spread could have been delayed by weeks with travel bans, regardless of what happened in China.   Europe was becoming a bigger vector into North America than was China.   To maintain that travel bans would not have slowed the spread ignores the march across the globe that we all witnessed in slow motion.

 

 

Most of the world was "less prepared" and the WHO test kits were few in number.   Europe has fared no better than the U.S., and in some ways it is worse.

Even Dr. Tam in Canada finally reversed course on masks when it became obvious to do so.

Well the timing of supporting masks has coincided with an increased supply of masks.  At least the supply for health workers wasn’t more squeezed.

Flights from Britain, a major hot spot for the virus today, weren’t banned until March 17, after other foreign nationals were barred.  Canada stopped international flights around the same time, after Trump’s earlier selected bans, but it was the strict public health messaging around 14-day self-isolation for all arriving from outside the country, as well as firm national health messaging about social-distancing, hand-washing, using Telehealth, and so on, that I think has prevented a big spread.  You had similar policies in certain states like California. Your best public health policies have been led by certain states.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well the timing of supporting masks has coincided with an increased supply of masks.  At least the supply for health workers wasn’t more squeezed.

Flights from Britain, a major hot spot for the virus today, weren’t banned until March 17, after other foreign nationals were barred. 

 

Which just highlights the flawed mask policy from the start...the public could have moved faster on making their own masks much sooner, if only to guard against asymptomatic spread, something else the WHO did not understand until much too late.

Travel bans should have been embraced far earlier across the world.     Now we know....the WHO certainly didn't.

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22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

To maintain that travel bans would not have slowed the spread ignores the march across the globe that we all witnessed in slow motion.

Maintaining the notion that the term ban actually meant what it implied ignores the fact that COVID-19 is probably still laughing its ass off at the notion too.

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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Travel bans should have been embraced far earlier across the world.     Now we know....the WHO certainly didn't.

So what do you suggest next time..Trump's tried and tested Swiss cheese approach or Patriot missiles?

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3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Which just highlights the flawed mask policy from the start...the public could have moved faster on making their own masks much sooner, if only to guard against asymptomatic spread, something else the WHO did not understand until much too late.

Travel bans should have been embraced far earlier across the world.     Now we know....the WHO certainly didn't.

The WHO was more nuanced on masks, saying that they helped more with preventing spread from those who have the virus than preventing people from getting the virus.  Also, people tend to adjust and play with their masks, so there’s a risk of touching your face.  Better to wear them than not to, as Asians well understand.

I would consider the sketchy treatment advice and mixed messages about reopening states from your prez.  Also, it’s hard to have objective public health officials who are constantly worried about their jobs and upstaging their president.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The WHO was more nuanced on masks, saying that they helped more with preventing spread from those who have the virus than preventing people from getting the virus.  Also, people tend to adjust and play with their masks, so there’s a risk of touching your face.  Better to wear them than not to, as Asians well understand.

 

That's just more WHO doublespeak.    Where did we end up ?    Wearing masks in public !

 

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I would consider the sketchy treatment advice and mixed messages about reopening states from your prez.  Also, it’s hard to have objective public health officials who are constantly worried about their jobs and upstaging their president.  

 

Why ?  Trump issued reopening guidance in phases that won praise from many sectors.   It is up to the governors to decide and implement in each state, which is happening now.    The governors pushed back against Trump when he tried to take control of reopening.

The best/worst example of state decisions can be found in New York under governor Cuomo, regardless of Trump.   The NYT wrote a blistering criticism of Cuomo and Mayor De Blasio:

 

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3 Ways New York Botched the Coronavirus Response in March

A hapless mayor and overpraised governor made false promises, gave inaccurate health information, and helped turn Gotham into the pandemic's epicenter, according to The New York Times

https://reason.com/2020/04/09/3-ways-new-york-botched-the-coronavirus-response-in-march/

 

 

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Next time? This could be it, although I always imagined the Apocalypse would take us out with a bang not a whimper.  Can't we just get it over with and move onto the I am Legend / hunting-gathering phase?

I Am Legend - Will Smith - Film - Review - The New York Times

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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's just more WHO doublespeak.    Where did we end up ?    Wearing masks in public !

 

 

Why ?  Trump issued reopening guidance in phases that won praise from many sectors.   It is up to the governors to decide and implement in each state, which is happening now.    The governors pushed back against Trump when he tried to take control of reopening.

The best/worst example of state decisions can be found in New York under governor Cuomo, regardless of Trump.   The NYT wrote a blistering criticism of Cuomo and Mayor De Blasio:

 

 

 

California and Texas have done well.  Look to the successful states.  Just make sure you compare apples to apples in terms of similar populations and densities.  In fairness to New York, New York City is ripe for a pandemic given its density and international status.  

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

California and Texas have done well.  Look to the successful states.  Just make sure you compare apples to apples in terms of similar populations and densities.  In fairness to New York, New York City is ripe for a pandemic given its density and international status.  

 

Populations are similar...densities vary throughout New York state.

I guarantee you that if/when the next pandemic strikes (perhaps even a new COVID peak this fall), far fewer are going to pitch a fit if Trump goes for travel bans like they did in late January early March.

 

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23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Populations are similar...densities vary throughout New York state.

I guarantee you that if/when the next pandemic strikes (perhaps even a new COVID peak this fall), far fewer are going to pitch a fit if Trump goes for travel bans like they did in late January early March.

 

Well sure.  I think it was the selective aspect of the bans that bothered some as it seemed discriminatory to them.  The problem with this pandemic is that there is no win.   We’re having to balance viral spread/deaths with an economic shutdown that has its own severe consequences, including deaths.  I have the feeling that all roads lead to Sweden, a country that has kept its economy up and running with reasonable public health policies.  However, it does have higher C-19 death rates than countries doing total shutdowns.  The health care system isn’t overwhelmed.  I hope we can do better than Sweden, but if that’s where we end up, I think most people will accept that.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well sure.  I think it was the selective aspect of the bans that bothered some as it seemed discriminatory to them.  The problem with this pandemic is that there is no win.   We’re having to balance viral spread/deaths with an economic shutdown that has its own severe consequences, including deaths. 

 

Then they should have demanded more universal travel bans, and not rejected the concept entirely because of the WHO or Trump derangement syndrome.

 

Quote

I have the feeling that all roads lead to Sweden, a country that has kept its economy up and running with reasonable public health policies.  However, it does have higher C-19 death rates than countries doing total shutdowns.  The health care system isn’t overwhelmed.  I hope we can do better than Sweden, but if that’s where we end up, I think most people will accept that.  

 

Sweden is "apples to oranges" too, so it does not apply directly to many other nations.    Canada now has the equivalent of 24,000 confirmed deaths at U.S. scale, and COVID19 caused deaths are not being counted the same way across nations.   For instance, New York state has almost 5,000 "assumed/presumed"  COVID19 deaths.

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