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Will it be the virus that takes Trump down?

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then they should have demanded more universal travel bans, and not rejected the concept entirely because of the WHO or Trump derangement syndrome.

 

 

Sweden is "apples to oranges" too, so it does not apply directly to many other nations.    Canada now has the equivalent of 24,000 confirmed deaths at U.S. scale, and COVID19 caused deaths are not being counted the same way across nations.   For instance, New York state has almost 5,000 "assumed/presumed"  COVID19 deaths.

Well we’re having to bail out the airline industry due to universal travel bans.

I think Germany is on a better track than Sweden, and Germany is more comparable to the context here.  However, they’re not as opened up as Sweden. They’re just now easing restrictions and trying things like immunity passports even though the WHO just came out and said that we still don’t know how immune people can be and if they can be reinfected.  Sweden never really shut down, including schools and restaurants.  Immunity is spreading gradually through the country.  They have more C-19 deaths than countries with greater restrictions, but they won’t pay nearly the economic costs, which include poverty, and eventually, higher mortality rates.  

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Well we’re having to bail out the airline industry due to universal travel bans.

 

It has been done before for far less severe crises...ditto the auto industry.

 

Quote

I think Germany is on a better track than Sweden, and Germany is more comparable to the context here.  However, they’re not as opened up as Sweden.

 

There is no one-size-fits-all solution(s)...each nation will have its own tweaks.

Some epidemiologists are frankly advising that a slow rise to a 60% - 70% infection rate is inevitable and may be desirable (so called herd immunity) absent a vaccine.    So we get a little break this summer and get ready for the big peak(s) in the fall/winter....on top of seasonal influenza.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Shady said:

Andrew Cuomo says Trump is right about the World Health Organization!

Yes indeed, they should be investigated. What the WHO says now about the virus compared to three months ago is different to the point they contradicted themselves. The WHO is bought and paid for by the CCP. Now the rest of the world is paying the price for how China handled this. Would be best for the rest of the world to shut China down.

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48 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

Yes indeed, they should be investigated. What the WHO says now about the virus compared to three months ago is different to the point they contradicted themselves. The WHO is bought and paid for by the CCP. Now the rest of the world is paying the price for how China handled this. Would be best for the rest of the world to shut China down.

What does shutting China down involve?  Will it increase the length of the lineups at the Dollar Store?

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5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada now has the equivalent of 24,000 confirmed deaths at U.S. scale

:lol: That sounds like Trump thinking aloud. He should stay away from arithmetic too. 

Like I've said before I think Trump was originally acting according to his belief the big spike on the old flatten the curve graph was the target so he was aiming for the stars.

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8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Travel bans should have been embraced far earlier across the world.     Now we know....the WHO certainly didn't.

Here the spread is mostly associated with returning Canadians.

I don't see how that can be resolved by travel bans. 

Edited by jacee

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4 minutes ago, jacee said:

Here the spread is mostly associated with returning Canadians.

I don't see how that can be resolved by travel bans. 

 

Travel bans slow the imported spread....biding more time.    There was plenty of travel from non-Canadians.

 

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24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Travel bans slow the imported spread....biding more time.    There was plenty of travel from non-Canadians.

 

Yes, many Americans returning through Canada after Trump’s bans.  

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21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What does shutting China down involve?  Will it increase the length of the lineups at the Dollar Store?

Or could get rid of them altogether. That would also save the landfills and recycling centers.

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1 hour ago, New World Disorder said:

Or could get rid of them altogether. That would also save the landfills and recycling centers.

Well we have to be willing to pay more for most goods.  Hard to do in a climate of shrinking employment and wages.  That’s where China has us by the balls, on production costs.  Most American companies couldn’t wait to offshore their production, including Trump.  It’s how we’ve come to do production and consuming.  Much tighter trade rules are needed, but they do add up to higher costs for consumers, at least in the near term.  Are people willing to pay more?   It should be about shot-term sacrifice for the greater long-term good.  That sounds good.  Actions speak louder than words.    

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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well we have to be willing to pay more for most goods.  Hard to do in a climate of shrinking employment and wages.  That’s where China has us by the balls, on production costs.  Most American companies couldn’t wait to offshore their production, including Trump.  It’s how we’ve come to do production and consuming....

 

But you are leaving out the other half of the story....just as Canada wants access to the United States (for 75% of exports), American companies wanted access to the growing Chinese consumer market.    GM now sells more cars in China than in North America.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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40 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Are people willing to pay more?   

Maybe people will simply come to accept living with less, not for the greater good but because having done so for 12 - 18 months will make it seem more normal.  There could just be a big collective shrug and minimalism becomes a social value in people's lives.

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It should be about shot-term sacrifice for the greater long-term good.  That sounds good.  Actions speak louder than words.

Our short-term pain could result in long-term gain - a quieter less active world sounds pretty good too.  I'm reminded of an adage an old-timer who took me under his wing when I needed one used to tell me, "the world is your cherry, you just have to go pick it".  In those days that meant grab the whole tree but the Before Times should probably be a thing of the past going forward. I think he'd agree if he was still alive and able to look around in the glare of hindsight.

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But you are leaving out the other half of the story....just as Canada wants access to the United States (for 75% of exports), American companies wanted access to the growing Chinese consumer market.    GM now sells more cars in China than in North America.

How does any of that add jobs in America?  Doing production in China for the Chinese market is just another Chinese company servicing China.  

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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

How does any of that add jobs in America?  Doing production in China for the Chinese market is just another Chinese company servicing China.  

 

I don't think you understand how much more production and support happens in the U.S. for operations in China.   One of the oldest and biggest is Boeing, which not only exports aircraft and services to China, but is helping them design and build airliners domestically.    Engines, hydraulics, avionics, etc. come from all over the world.

IBM has also been a big player in China, with better margins than Boeing.

Microsoft makes more off of each Windows license than PC hardware sales by Chinese manufacturers.

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40 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I don't think you understand how much more production and support happens in the U.S. for operations in China.   One of the oldest and biggest is Boeing, which not only exports aircraft and services to China, but is helping them design and build airliners domestically.    Engines, hydraulics, avionics, etc. come from all over the world.

IBM has also been a big player in China, with better margins than Boeing.

Microsoft makes more off of each Windows license than PC hardware sales by Chinese manufacturers.

It’s all fine for the most elite programmers, but if it’s jobs and production in America that you care about, having Chinese workers build cars in China for the Chinese market isn’t going to achieve that.  

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s all fine for the most elite programmers, but if it’s jobs and production in America that you care about, having Chinese workers build cars in China for the Chinese market isn’t going to achieve that.  

 

Again, you don't understand that American access to the Chinese market is enabled by Chinese manufacturing and sales.   U.S. automakers export autos and parts to China.

I find it telling that you are fine with such an arrangement for Canada, but not China.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, you don't understand that American access to the Chinese market is enabled by Chinese manufacturing and sales.   U.S. automakers export autos and parts to China.

I find it telling that you are fine with such an arrangement for Canada, but not China.

Not at all.  It comes down to trade imbalance.  We have balanced trade with America, buying from America roughly as much as we sell to America.  Not so for China, and that applies to both Canada and the US.  

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18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not at all.  It comes down to trade imbalance.  We have balanced trade with America, buying from America roughly as much as we sell to America.  Not so for China, and that applies to both Canada and the US.  

 

Another old discussion....Trump has engaged China on trade only to be criticized by many, including Canada.

Canada has far less to offer for market growth than China, and depends far more from American direct investment / capital.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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37 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Another old discussion....Trump has engaged China on trade only to be criticized by many, including Canada.

Canada has far less to offer for market growth than China, and depends far more from American direct investment / capital.

I disagree.  Canada has had a lot of immigration, a growing population, and lots of space to grow.  It will be interesting going forward to see how America and Canada sustain growth with zero immigration.  I don’t know if people will want to have kids given sketchy economic prospects.  I hope we get most of the old normal back.  No guarantees. For a pro growth president like Trump, this will be hard to navigate.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well we have to be willing to pay more for most goods.  Hard to do in a climate of shrinking employment and wages.  That’s where China has us by the balls, on production costs.  Most American companies couldn’t wait to offshore their production, including Trump.  It’s how we’ve come to do production and consuming.  Much tighter trade rules are needed, but they do add up to higher costs for consumers, at least in the near term.  Are people willing to pay more?   It should be about shot-term sacrifice for the greater long-term good.  That sounds good.  Actions speak louder than words.    

I would bet people are more than willing to pay extra for something they won't need to replace in a month or so.

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10 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

I would bet people are more than willing to pay extra for something they won't need to replace in a month or so.

If they can afford it they likely do. 

I wonder what an all Canadian-made government  Market Basket would cost 

 “to ensure that it reflects the up-to-date cost of a basket of goods and services representing a modest, basic standard of living in Canada”.

That cost is supposed to be reflected in basic support amounts - welfare, disability, seniors' GIS, etc. We'd have to increase those supports somewhat. Intriguing concept that. 

 

Edited by jacee

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10 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

I would bet people are more than willing to pay extra for something they won't need to replace in a month or so.

The EU is moving towards legislating product durability and repair-ability as we speak.

https://www.engadget.com/2020-03-11-eu-right-to-repair-phones-tablets-computers.html

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32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I disagree.  Canada has had a lot of immigration, a growing population, and lots of space to grow.  It will be interesting going forward to see how America and Canada sustain growth with zero immigration.  I don’t know if people will want to have kids given sketchy economic prospects.  I hope we get most of the old normal back.  No guarantees. For a pro growth president like Trump, this will be hard to navigate.  

 

The USA has already been there and done that, with far more immigrants than Canada.  Trump represents a pause in such thinking and policies, if only for a short time.

Beware of globalists bearing gifts.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The USA has already been there and done that, with far more immigrants than Canada.  Trump represents a pause in such thinking and policies, if only for a short time.

Beware of globalists bearing gifts.

I think it will be even more important for urban and regional planners, as well as governments, to seriously look at what optimum population growth and development patterns should look like, because there are environmental and health impacts, as well as economic ones.  While I think it’s great to have mixed use walkable complete communities, I’m not sure extreme densities and skyscraper cities are the way to go.  It’s already been coined vertical sprawl.  Might as well get the new deal started building infrastructure for all that pogey, so that we can fix the transportation and sprawl issues in existing communities.

The globalism fears are overblown. We do need better global rules and we’ll probably see less international travel and immigration.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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The noble art of sarcasm: Trump replaces coronavirus briefing with tweets

Trump is no longer in the pandemic briefings after everyone realizes he's a complete idiot.

Yesterday he tweets confusing Pulitzer for "Noble" prizes. This guy can't even blame drinking for this idiocy!

The "Fake Media" refuse to publish that he has “gotten more done in the first 3 1/2 years than any President in history.”... and that makes them fake? To him the real news is everything that makes him not look like an idiot. Like when he says something even a 5th grader wouldn't believe and then some Fox News contributer has to say "what the president meant was...".

Edited by godzilla

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