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Want free health care? Come to Canada


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You don't have to be a real refugee. The instant you cross the border you get free health care, prescriptions, dental, etc. And you'll get it for years. So if you've got some kind of medical problem, just come to Canada, claim asylum, and get it all taken care of for free!

Illegal border crossers and asylum claimants whose cases have not yet been heard in front of an immigration judge are in some cases being given 20 years of all-access to gold-plated healthcare services, the Sun has learned.

This provides access to every medical procedure available under the Canada Health Act, as well as full dental coverage and tax-payer funded prescription drugs, according to a medical assistant who is blowing the whistle on these exorbitant freebees.

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-docs-show-asylum-claimant-health-access-expanded-to-20-years

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I once met a lady who wanted some help with her refugee application.  She was from the UK and had no money or family in Canada.  She didn't have money to fly back to the UK and didn't really want to go back.  As a visitor in Canada she couldn't get a work permit either so she couldn't get a job here.  She said she knew she wouldn't likely be approved as a refugee but she was going to apply as a refugee anyways so that she could get her free health card and a work permit that are eligible to refugee claimants.  She said that would probably buy her a couple of years in Canada at least, and she was right.

We need a deterrent for people who take advantage of our refugee system, currently I can't think of any deterrent that exists.  Other than the CBSA/IRCC takes your foreign passport into their custody until your claim is settled.  But you can apply for a Canadian travel document which allows you to travel to any country besides the country you are fleeing.

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If you went to stay in another country for three years, that offers free or almost free health care to its citizens and even on the third year they made you pay thousands because you're not really a citizen... You'd so be complaining about that too.

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22 minutes ago, Marocc said:

If you went to stay in another country for three years, that offers free or almost free health care to its citizens and even on the third year they made you pay thousands because you're not really a citizen... You'd so be complaining about that too.

Would be my choice to move there or not.  Foreign countries owe me nothing.

Refugees tend to work and pay taxes so it's not that big of a deal if they get free health care.

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15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Would be my choice to move there or not.  Foreign countries owe me nothing.

Refugees tend to work and pay taxes so it's not that big of a deal if they get free health care.

Evidence that refugees tend to work and pay taxes? I've seen none in all the time I've been looking into the background of this issue. From what I can see refugee employment tends to be low, and their earnings around minimum wage. Which means no, they're not paying taxes.

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On 3/8/2020 at 8:43 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

We need a deterrent for people who take advantage of our refugee system

Why ?  Your anecdote didn't explain how much of a problem this is.  It was basically "somebody took advantage of the system once".  Not a priority IMO.  

The problem is that government is being hijacked by ridiculous pet peeves like this.  We should be spending our time restructuring our publics to try new projects that reduce costs and improve services.  Instead we get dumbass shit like what you've got.  

Sorry but I'm distinctly unimpressed.

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On 3/8/2020 at 5:32 PM, Argus said:

You don't have to be a real refugee. The instant you cross the border you get free health care, prescriptions, dental, etc. And you'll get it for years. So if you've got some kind of medical problem, just come to Canada, claim asylum, and get it all taken care of for free!

Illegal border crossers and asylum claimants whose cases have not yet been heard in front of an immigration judge are in some cases being given 20 years of all-access to gold-plated healthcare services, the Sun has learned.

This provides access to every medical procedure available under the Canada Health Act, as well as full dental coverage and tax-payer funded prescription drugs, according to a medical assistant who is blowing the whistle on these exorbitant freebees.

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-docs-show-asylum-claimant-health-access-expanded-to-20-years

The host people of this British/European country are now being taken as pure suckers by the rest of the world. And we can only thank our dear leader anti-Canadian politicians for this bloody mess that they have put the Canadian taxpayer's into. Hundreds of billions of our Canadian tax dollars are being blown on foreigners every year who should not be here at all. But this does not seem to be a problem with most Canadians. Either they are not being informed enough by our not so informative Canadian leftist liberal media or else they do know as to what is going on but could not give a chit. It is for sure that the CBC is all in favor of this criminality going on in Canada. Whatever it is, Canada is well on it's way to go bankrupt and not one politician has anything to say about it except conservative Maxine Bernier. I have to pay for my glasses or to have dental work done on my teeth, but yet these foreign illegal refugee criminals that walk into Canada every day now can get those services offered to them for free. They even can get free housing, free food and free clothing as an added bonus just for getting here. Most Canadians have truly become a bunch of zombie heads. 

The news media in Canada willharp on Trump impeachment, viruses and gay rights over and over again but yet ignore this illegality going on in Canada. When are the people of Canada finally going to start to give a chit for a change about how their tax dollars are being blown on foreign criminal refugee illegals every day, not to forget about the tens of thousands of legal refugees that are brought here legally by this leftist liberal I could careless about Canada and the Canadian taxpayer criminal government. This is criminal and not one politician has yet paid for this criminal misuse and theft of the Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars. Sadly, we now have this prime mistake of Canada who wants to bring in millions more new immigrants, legal or illegal, and hand out even more free goodies to the ones that get here and all of course at taxpayer's tax dollars expense. What a frigging sucker country this Canada has become. :unsure:

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30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why ?  Your anecdote didn't explain how much of a problem this is.  It was basically "somebody took advantage of the system once".  Not a priority IMO.  

The problem is that government is being hijacked by ridiculous pet peeves like this.  We should be spending our time restructuring our publics to try new projects that reduce costs and improve services.  Instead we get dumbass shit like what you've got.  

Sorry but I'm distinctly unimpressed.

It's more like there are thousands of illegals from the third world that are trying to get to Canada because of all of the freebies that the Canadian taxpayer sucker in Canada has to offer if they can get here. Many no doubt have any kinds of job skills. All they have to offer is more problems for the taxpayer's of Canada who now has to take care of them for who know how bloody long. They will take more than give back. Sorry, but I am not very impressed with how things are being done in this country. :unsure:

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6 hours ago, Argus said:

Evidence that refugees tend to work and pay taxes? I've seen none in all the time I've been looking into the background of this issue. From what I can see refugee employment tends to be low, and their earnings around minimum wage. Which means no, they're not paying taxes.

Due to the nature of my job I meet many refugees from all over the world.  I've had many clients come to me with refugee papers in hand and work permits looking to work.  Doesn't mean some also don't want to go on welfare.  But a lot of them do work, have families they need to feed, want their SIN #'s etc.  Generally people want to work and eat, not all, but most seem to.  Some can only get low wage jobs.

What evidence have you seen?

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why ?  Your anecdote didn't explain how much of a problem this is.  It was basically "somebody took advantage of the system once".  Not a priority IMO.  

The problem is that government is being hijacked by ridiculous pet peeves like this.  We should be spending our time restructuring our publics to try new projects that reduce costs and improve services.  Instead we get dumbass shit like what you've got.  

Sorry but I'm distinctly unimpressed.

So instead of having a deterrent, which could be easy to implement, you're content to do nothing?

I don't like people taking advantage of government handouts no matter if they were born here or not.  We have deterrents for abusing EI, social assistance etc.

The point is, anyone from any country can come to Canada, make a refugee claim no matter how ridiculous, and get free health care from the time they make the claim until when they are denied, and it usually takes a couple of years at least to get a refugee hearing, even longer now.

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34 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. So instead of having a deterrent, which could be easy to implement, you're content to do nothing?

2. I don't like people taking advantage of government handouts no matter if they were born here or not.   

1. A deterrent could be a good idea.  But is there a problem?

2. Ok, but if the honour system were cheaper, why not?

Did you like the three strikes laws?  They caught a lot of bad folks like shoplifters and sent them up the river for life.  

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2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Due to the nature of my job I meet many refugees from all over the world.  I've had many clients come to me with refugee papers in hand and work permits looking to work.  Doesn't mean some also don't want to go on welfare.  But a lot of them do work, have families they need to feed, want their SIN #'s etc.  Generally people want to work and eat, not all, but most seem to.  Some can only get low wage jobs.

What evidence have you seen?

A minimum wage earner in Ontario makes about $29k per year.

So this talks about average earnings of refugees.

This was also true for refugees, where the median wages of those admitted in 2006 as government-assisted refugees were $8,200 one year after admission, $16,800 after five years and $21,000 in 2016, a decade after admission. In comparison, the median wages of privately sponsored refugees admitted in 2006 were $20,600 one year after admission, $22,900 after five years and $25,800 in 2016.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. A deterrent could be a good idea.  But is there a problem?

Of course not! And there's almost no coronavirus in the US! It's been licked there. Okay, they're not checking much, but hey, surely it's okay!

If you don't check, you don't find. No one, no agency of any kind is doing any sort of check to see how many refugee applicants require heavy health care resources soon after arrival. Hell, we don't even check to see if they leave after they've been denied refugee status.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Ok, but if the honour system were cheaper, why not?

Human behavioural traits say that if you can steal something valuable, take something that is valuable, without any punishment, then people are going to do so. that's why we have laws.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Did you like the three strikes laws?  They caught a lot of bad folks like shoplifters and sent them up the river for life.  

Total straw man.

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15 minutes ago, Argus said:

A minimum wage earner in Ontario makes about $29k per year.

So this talks about average earnings of refugees.

This was also true for refugees, where the median wages of those admitted in 2006 as government-assisted refugees were $8,200 one year after admission, $16,800 after five years and $21,000 in 2016, a decade after admission. In comparison, the median wages of privately sponsored refugees admitted in 2006 were $20,600 one year after admission, $22,900 after five years and $25,800 in 2016.

Ontario minimum wage only recent went up.  Back in those dates the full-time min wage salary would have been around 20k a year.

But anyways, of all immigrant groups of working age refugees make the least.  I wouldn't allow any immigrant to stay in Canada permanently if after 5 or so years they aren't making close to the provincial avg wage.  The idea of importing en masse people who will live in poverty is insane, since poverty is the leading indicator of crime, poor education, addiction, child-bearing outside committed relationships, and most every other undesirable social indicator.  I have no problem paying to resettle them to find them safety elsewhere.

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9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  I wouldn't allow any immigrant to stay in Canada permanently if after 5 or so years they aren't making close to the provincial avg wage.  The idea of importing en masse people who will live in poverty is insane, since poverty is the leading indicator of crime, poor education, addiction, child-bearing outside committed relationships, and most every other undesirable social indicator.  

Clearly you have never been poor.  You seem to be conflating "below average" wage with poverty.  Also the idea that you can't live a healthy, happy and productive life without making a lot of money is a corrupt viewpoint IMO.  It's a reflection of how badly our values have declined. 

 

We have set up an economic system where it's more and more difficult to compete, where the losses mount up for the losers and we wonder what is wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Marocc said:

That would be entirely unethical.

And, again, not identified as a problem.

Do we think people are leaving war zones to come to Canada for medical assistance ?  Do we think people are making fraudulent claims ?  

For sure if there are easy checks to prevent this, do them, but do we know that is not the practice today ?

And if this happens once and again, do we want to put in an expensive vetting process in place to catch cheaters just because some people are triggered by cheaters ?  I don't think so.

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Clearly you have never been poor. 

I have and I'm quite sure you never have been either. The last thing you want when you're poor is a horde of newcomers desperate for your job and willing to work longer hours for less pay. I remember when I was a security guard and the company locked us out. A guy shows up at work with a pair of refugees/immigrants in tow to replace us at that building. From their voices they could barely speak English. Didn't matter. They had a year to learn since we were locked out for that long.

You also completely ignore the cost to the rest of society of importing poor people. Since they won't be paying taxes the rest of society has to pay for all government services in their name.

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2 hours ago, Marocc said:

That would be entirely unethical.

Why? It seems to me it would be entirely logical to see who was coming here as a 'health care refugee' instead of any other kind.

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30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And if this happens once and again, do we want to put in an expensive vetting process in place to catch cheaters just because some people are triggered by cheaters ?  I don't think so.

The people' triggered' by cheaters, are the ones paying the bills who also have the understanding that if people are illegitimately occupying places in our overcrowded health care system then Canadians are being pushed further down the lines.

Of course, to people who have no sense that Canadians are more important than foreigners that wouldn't matter.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

1. The people' triggered' by cheaters, are the ones paying the bills...

2. Of course, to people who have no sense that Canadians are more important than foreigners that wouldn't matter.

1. I also pay the bills, and you seem to be willing to spend more to catch cheaters than we lose due to cheating.  Unless you didn't read my note.

2. Hyper patriotism is an emotional affliction.  I am not willing to support your pet projects to punish folks who you deem it entertaining to harass.

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2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I also pay the bills, and you seem to be willing to spend more to catch cheaters than we lose due to cheating.  Unless you didn't read my note.

You have no idea what the cost is of people falsely using our health care system. You have no idea what the cost would be to even look into the matter. So your speculation on what I'm willing to spend is fantasy.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Hyper patriotism is an emotional affliction.  I am not willing to support your pet projects to punish folks who you deem it entertaining to harass.

For a guy who gets awfully huffy when others suggest motivation for his positions you seem to have no difficulty doing the same to others.

It's not 'hyper patriotism' to want to spend our resources on Canadians and not foreigners. That you would even suggest it is indicates the sort of globalist mentality which is at odds with the majority of the people in this and every other country. Patriotism or love of country is not some kind of moral or emotional 'affliction'. Nor would I find it 'entertaining' to harass anyone except pompous progressives.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

1. You have no idea what the cost is of people falsely using our health care system. You have no idea what the cost would be to even look into the matter. So your speculation on what I'm willing to spend is fantasy.

2. For a guy who gets awfully huffy when others suggest motivation for his positions you seem to have no difficulty doing the same to others.

3. It's not 'hyper patriotism' to want to spend our resources on Canadians and not foreigners. That you would even suggest it is indicates the sort of globalist mentality which is at odds with the majority of the people in this and every other country. Patriotism or love of country is not some kind of moral or emotional 'affliction'. Nor would I find it 'entertaining' to harass anyone except pompous progressives.

1. Neither do you.  I laid out the principle of knowing the scale of a problem before acting on it, though, and you scoffed at that.  I even said if there's an easy solution we don't need to know costs to do something.

2. I have evidence.  See #1.  Look at yourself more critically.

3. It is if you want to spend more Canadian money simply to punish people, rather than to use our resources wisely.  Your responses indicate that that is your position.  And again, you are ascribing motivations to me despite the fact that I agreed to preventative measures.

 

That's typical of your response to such things, I think.  And we don't have much more to say here IMO.  Nice to visit with you again, don't ever change...

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Neither do you.  I laid out the principle of knowing the scale of a problem before acting on it, though, and you scoffed at that.  I even said if there's an easy solution we don't need to know costs to do something.

And I mentioned human behavior patterns indicate if you can get something valuable for free some people will do so. Did I propose torturing people to find out? No. I said this is happening, and we need to work to prevent it. How is that such a shocking position?

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I have evidence.  See #1.  Look at yourself more critically.

You have evidence. Give us all a break. You're just being pompous and arrogant again in deciding everyone but YOU is an unworthy partisan.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. It is if you want to spend more Canadian money simply to punish people, rather than to use our resources wisely.

I didn't mention spending money. I mentioned finding out.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And again, you are ascribing motivations to me despite the fact that I agreed to preventative measures.

Oh so you can do it, while standing high on your pedestal, nose elevated, but no one else can. The fact is, you're a globalist. You've said as much. No amount of immigration is too much to you. You have no particular affinity for Canadians and care nothing for our culture and values. Like other globalists you're just as happy hanging out with a united nations of people, perhaps more happy than among ordinary Canadians. So you couldn't care less about Canada's homegrown culture being overwhelmed with them. You don't share that culture anyway.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's typical of your response to such things, I think.

And this is typical of yours. Arrogant, superior and contemptuous of anyone who has the slightest affinity for this country and its people, culture. values and traditions. The very idea that someone like me wants to help Canadians rather than your foreign friends fills you with self-righteous indignation.

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12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Clearly you have never been poor.  You seem to be conflating "below average" wage with poverty.  Also the idea that you can't live a healthy, happy and productive life without making a lot of money is a corrupt viewpoint IMO.  It's a reflection of how badly our values have declined.

Yes you can, but the statistics don't lie.  If you increase poverty you increase crime and all sorts of undesirable social indicators.

You live in Toronto.  Go to the most crime-ridden parts of the GTA and you will find the most refugees per capita in the city, because they live in the poorest areas, and the poorest areas are the most crime-ridden.  Tell me i'm wrong.  Parkdale, Rexdale, Jane and Finch...what do you think these things have in common?  They're all poor.  Immigrants who do not succeed financially in Canada are not desirable and a burden on our cities and I don't care where they come from, what colour their skin is, or what religion they worship.  It has nothing to do with those things.

If you're a Syrian refugee and you can get your act together (and i'm even willing to help you, with ESL courses etc) then you're more than welcome to stay.  I'm not afraid of mosques, i've been inside a mosque, I have Muslim friends.  I'm afraid of what parts of our cities are turning into.  In downtown Ottawa people get shot and stabbed all the time now, especially in the summer.  This is unprecedented. If you think violence, shootings, and gang activity is just a Toronto problem , you're wrong: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/murder-in-the-market-14-homicides-in-ottawa-three-in-citys-core-in-2019

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