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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 1. You live in Toronto.  Go to the most crime-ridden parts of the GTA and you will find the most refugees per capita in the city, because they live in the poorest areas, and the poorest areas are the most crime-ridden. 

2.  Immigrants who do not succeed financially in Canada are not desirable and a burden on our cities and I don't care where they come from, what colour their skin is, or what religion they worship.  It has nothing to do with those things.

3. If you're a Syrian refugee and you can get your act together (and i'm even willing to help you, with ESL courses etc) then you're more than welcome to stay.  I'm not afraid of mosques, i've been inside a mosque, I have Muslim friends.  I'm afraid of what parts of our cities are turning into.  In downtown Ottawa people get shot and stabbed all the time now, especially in the summer.  This is unprecedented. If you think violence, shootings, and gang activity is just a Toronto problem , you're wrong: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/murder-in-the-market-14-homicides-in-ottawa-three-in-citys-core-in-2019

1. Poor people live in the worst neighbourhoods, I concur.

2. Again, you are conflating below average wage with 'failure'.  You realize that food chains bring workers in to fill jobs, that Sri Lankans work in Toronto kitchens and support large families as they do so ?  Freedom of religion and the pursuit of happiness are for everybody, you know.

3. I'm not convinced that refugees are fueling an increase in crime but I am not against the idea either.  It's off topic, but maybe another thread on this topic would work.

 

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24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Poor people live in the worst neighbourhoods, I concur.

2. Again, you are conflating below average wage with 'failure'.  You realize that food chains bring workers in to fill jobs, that Sri Lankans work in Toronto kitchens and support large families as they do so ?  Freedom of religion and the pursuit of happiness are for everybody, you know.

3. I'm not convinced that refugees are fueling an increase in crime but I am not against the idea either.  It's off topic, but maybe another thread on this topic would work.

1.  Ok glad

2. You can only bring in foreign workers with an LMIA (labour market impact assessment).  If a Tamil restaurant needs a Tamil chef, no problem.  If they need a waiter no dice, there's a lot of people here who can do that job.  I'm not concerned with slightly below avg wage, i'm concerned with people who make us worse, not better.

3. The goal of our immigration system is to make Canada better economically and socially.  For the most part it does.  But there are still major flaws in the system.  You tell me why gangs are becoming more and more of a problem.  Gangs are formed in poor areas from poor families who don't look after their kids, so they look for a family outside the home.  There's a reason Michael Hardner isn't in a gang.

 

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52 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. You can only bring in foreign workers with an LMIA (labour market impact assessment).  If a Tamil restaurant needs a Tamil chef, no problem.  If they need a waiter no dice, there's a lot of people here who can do that job.  I'm not concerned with slightly below avg wage, i'm concerned with people who make us worse, not better.

2. You tell me why gangs are becoming more and more of a problem. 

3. Gangs are formed in poor areas from poor families who don't look after their kids, so they look for a family outside the home. 

4. There's a reason Michael Hardner isn't in a gang.

1. Can you see the contradiction yet ?  You're ok with a Tamil chef but are still hanging on to the 'average wage' thing ?  Look I'll meet you half way.  Give some actual parameters to this 5-year review like 1) can't have committed certain types of crimes 2) shown some positive impact on the country.  "Make more money than 1/2 of Canadians" isn't it... just admit that's a dumb idea and I'll admit you have the germ of a good one.

2. I have no idea.  Like I said - start a thread on that.  Maybe there are some brilliant sociologists on this board who can explain it to you.  Or, more likely, Argus will triangulate his Angusometer to explain why immigration is the cause, then the two of you can meet minds... like Spock and that blob in the cave.  You can decide which one you want to play.

3. I grew up in a poor area with poor families who didn't look after their kids.  They didn't turn out to be criminals.  Do you know why ?  They were white, they drank milk, they were friends with me, there were no guns, it was easy to turn your life around in the 1920s... any or none of these reasons... Life is complicated - new thread needed.

4. How do you know I'm not ?  Sometimes gangs were tweed jackets, not leather ones.

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17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The goal of our immigration system is to make Canada better economically and socially. 

The goal of our immigration system is to win votes for the government in power. it serves no other purpose.

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

For the most part it does.

Evidence?

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2 minutes ago, Argus said:

The goal of our immigration system is to win votes for the government in power. it serves no other purpose.

I assume you say that because if you were to do something as smart, kind or good for the general public, you would do it for no other purpose.

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16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Can you see the contradiction yet ?  You're ok with a Tamil chef but are still hanging on to the 'average wage' thing ?  Look I'll meet you half way.  Give some actual parameters to this 5-year review like 1) can't have committed certain types of crimes 2) shown some positive impact on the country.  "Make more money than 1/2 of Canadians" isn't it... just admit that's a dumb idea and I'll admit you have the germ of a good one.

Why do you progressive get the idea this is such a shocking, impossible and outrageous idea when many other countries have had it for years? The Swiss and the French, to name just two, now require prospective citizens to demonstrate that they're economically self-sustaining, and that they worked at integrating into the local culture. If you can't demonstrate that, you don't get citizenship. If you hang on to your old, backward cultural values, like refusing to shake hands with a member of the opposite sex, then you can go home.

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I have no idea.  Like I said - start a thread on that.  Maybe there are some brilliant sociologists on this board who can explain it to you.  Or, more likely, Argus will triangulate his Angusometer to explain why immigration is the cause, then the two of you can meet minds... like Spock and that blob in the cave.  You can decide which one you want to play.

I have a vague memory of long ago, many decades back, when crime and violence were so pervasive down south, when there were drive-by shootings in big American cities, feeling proud that such things never happened in Canada. Because they didn't. We were orderly and law abiding. And we had no slums. We had no ghettos. Then came a huge surge of immigration from the third world, and presto, now we had street gangs too! I bet that made you pop your buttons in pride at how cosmopolitan we'd become.

The street gangs are ALL visible minorities. All of them. Given almost all visible minorities are, as I've posted, either first or second generation immigrants it's not exactly a leap of logic to say that our immigration system is the cause of these gangs and their violence.

 

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4 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I assume you say that because if you were to do something as smart, kind or good for the general public, you would do it for no other purpose.

There's zero evidence immigration is good for anyone but the immigrants. Well, and the immigration industry which profits off them.

The federal govenrment hasn't done any sort of study on the results of immigration in forty years. It does not show the slightest interest in whether immigrants are helping the economy or not, in whether the influx is good for society or not. It has no goals for immigration, and so it cannot measure the success or failure. It simply does not care.

Given I've worked in government, that is more than sufficient evidence that immigration serves a political purpose and no other.

Edited by Argus
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6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Given I've worked in government, that is more than sufficient evidence

That would be more than sufficient evidence they take just about anyone to work there.

 

If they don't teach you you can use the Internet to get perspective to these things

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1 hour ago, Marocc said:

That would be more than sufficient evidence they take just about anyone to work there.

A non sequitor insult of no bearing on the points made. Nor does it distract from those points.

At this point you might as well surrender and leave.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Argus said:

A non sequitor insult of no bearing on the points made. Nor does it distract from those points.

At this point you might as well surrender and leave.

 

 

You ignored the actual point of my comment. I was about to search something for you, but then I became occupied with something else and thought that you are able to look it up yourself and the only reason you say something as silly as you did (about immigration not profiting) is because you are a liar.

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