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Should Canada Retaliate Against China

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2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Answer the question please.

China are the Nazis of the 21st century.  Bent on world domination through national and cultural rebirth/resurgence.  A brutal totalitarian dictator in a country with no concept of human rights with massive global power on track to eclipse the USA is not a good combo.  We shouldn't appease them or help their rise.  They'll make us yearn for the good old days of the "evil" American empire.

Ya, gee, maybe we could just  stop buying their goods and using Chinese manufacturers. 

Edited by jacee

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37 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's what economic sanctions are.

As you know I've often referred to how much of their GDP our grandparents were willing to spend fighting tyranny, it was some 25%.  How much do you think we should spend?  There's more than just one dictator out there too don't forget. 

Edited by eyeball

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10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's what economic sanctions are.

We're fighting a disease, not a dictatorship. Keep your priorities straight and your anxiety under control, pls. 

That knee-jerk "let's fight somebody" anxiety is the entire problem with the patriarchy, which was never meant to lead, but to follow direction. 

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9 minutes ago, jacee said:

We're fighting a disease, not a dictatorship. Keep your priorities straight and your anxiety under control, pls. 

That knee-jerk "let's fight somebody" anxiety is the entire problem with the patriarchy, which was never meant to lead, but to follow direction. 

So you're suggesting that the correct course of action in 1930s Europe would have been to wait around until Adolf put Eva in charge?

Well, it's a radical idea, but it would certainly have saved a lot of lives, and I do like strudel.

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10 hours ago, eyeball said:

As you know I've often referred to how much of their GDP our grandparents were willing to spend fighting tyranny, it was some 25%.  How much do you think we should spend?  There's more than just one dictator out there too don't forget. 

There's only one dictator out there who wants to dominate the world as official party policy and is projected to be able to do so within a few decades.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2019/11/12/chinas-grand-plan-to-take-over-the-world/#68d6c7195ab5

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55 minutes ago, jacee said:

We're fighting a disease, not a dictatorship. Keep your priorities straight and your anxiety under control, pls. 

That knee-jerk "let's fight somebody" anxiety is the entire problem with the patriarchy, which was never meant to lead, but to follow direction. 

Please stop being sexist against men.

I was saying these things well before COVID-19 existed.  It's not a knee-jerk reaction, it's based on decades of evidence.

If you want to blame the patriarchy, blame Xi Jinping for wanting to take over the world.  Granny maybe you'd like to bake him a pie or knit him a sweater LOL (i kid, I kid).  You still never answered what you'd do against the Nazis.  Apple or cherry pie for Hitler? LOL.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2019/11/12/chinas-grand-plan-to-take-over-the-world/#68d6c7195ab5

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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Hitler did not have nuclear weapons. 

If you want to halt Xi's foreign policy, would you be willing to go to war? What would be your alternative?

 

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Hitler did not have nuclear weapons. 

If you want to halt Xi's foreign policy, would you be willing to go to war? What would be your alternative?

 

First I'd do something about China's 5th Column - investors on Wall/Bay Street and their minions in high office who are keeping us tied so close to China.

Our grandparents invested 25% of their GDP fighting tyranny and they'd be sick to their hearts if they could see how much our GDP now depends on dealing with tyrants.

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Such a silly thread to blame a whole nation  for this epidemy...

This will just fuel hatred against another nation.

Edited by kactus

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Our grandparents also allied with a tyranny led by most terrible murdering tyrant in history, Stalin. It was Soviet blood and American taxpayers' dollars that beat Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo.

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

First I'd do something about China's 5th Column - investors on Wall/Bay Street and their minions in high office

That is a great plan. I plan to do "something" about getting a million dollars.

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5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Our grandparents also allied with a tyranny led by most terrible murdering tyrant in history, Stalin. It was Soviet blood and American taxpayers' dollars that beat Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo.

That is a great plan. I plan to do "something" about getting a million dollars.

But the Russians are old allies going back to the Five Powers of the 19th century.  Stalin oppressed his own people.  

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30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Stalin oppressed his own people.

The Poles, Czechs, East Germans, Romanians, Bulgarians, Hungarians etc. will be so happy to hear that. 

 

Edited by Queenmandy85

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4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Hitler did not have nuclear weapons. 

If you want to halt Xi's foreign policy, would you be willing to go to war? What would be your alternative?

Right now Xi's foreign policy is economic domination.  Invest in everything, buy up natural resources, spy on countless corporations and steal their secrets, then use that stolen IP to create cheap tech in order to dominate the IT industry and control the digitial landscape.  Cellphones, 5G networks, laptops, servers, electric vehicles, anything.  Mass control, mass surveillance, mass spying.

They don't seem interested in military encounters (yet), other than dominating their region.  Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan etc.  But overall they don't seem interested in following the USSR route yet.  They probably want to built up their economy until they are so far richer than the USA that they could then built up a military that is unstoppable and it would be too late to stop.  If the status quo continues, which they're counting on, they'd be able to do that in a few decades.  They've been rising economically at an unparalleled rate since the early 1990's.

There's no need for a military encounter.  I would propose to limit and undermine their economy in every way possible.

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Edited by Moonlight Graham

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5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

There's no need for a military encounter.  I would propose to limit and undermine their economy in every way possible.

 

Economic warfare is war, push them backs against a wall and you will get a military encounter in the process.

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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

First I'd do something about China's 5th Column - investors on Wall/Bay Street and their minions in high office who are keeping us tied so close to China.

You're right about that.  Big 5th Column in the West.  China has the largest diaspora in the world out of any country.  Obviously not all of them are loyal to China, I have many Chinese friends who don't like that  gov, but many are loyal, and many don't have a choice but to be loyal.  Look at all the Chinese-Canadians who protested in defence of China when the whole Hong Kong protests happened months ago.

If you refuse to spy on Canada for the China gov, they threaten to make your family in China disappear.  If you tweet things critical of China they visit your family in China.  We have entire cities in Canada dominated by Chinese-Canadians, are they all loyal to this country?  We have an entire province becoming Chinese, are they all loyal?  Canada doesn't demand much loyalty.  It's a post-national state our PM says.

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2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Economic warfare is war, push them backs against a wall and you will get a military encounter in the process.

Ok.  NATO could defend against them in an attack, but it would get messy.

They want the economic war, not us.  We just want to trade and get rich together, we've been naive to think they wanted the same.

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5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You're right about that.  Big 5th Column in the West.  China has the largest diaspora in the world out of any country.

 

I don't think that is correct, as India has about 18 million living outside of its borders.

Mexico has more too....

 

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https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/india-has-the-world-s-biggest-diaspora-here-s-where-its-emigrants-live/

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Ok.  NATO could defend against them in an attack, but it would get messy.

They want the economic war, not us.  We just want to trade and get rich together, we've been naive to think they wanted the same.

America views them as adversaries, but not enemies, NATO doesn't have a logistics tail so it's more a burden than a boon

America will decide when it is time to confront them, and that won't come until they attempt to impede Freedom of Navigation.

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7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I don't think that is correct, as India has about 18 million living outside of its borders.

Mexico has more too..

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/india-has-the-world-s-biggest-diaspora-here-s-where-its-emigrants-live/

Maybe, I read it yesterday, maybe they were wrong.  Every city has a Chinatown...

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5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

America views them as adversaries, but not enemies, NATO doesn't have a logistics tail so it's more a burden than a boon

America will decide when it is time to confront them, and that won't come until they attempt to impede Freedom of Navigation.

Well we'll see, at least Trump seems to have their number.  Trudeau licked their boots but I think his tune is changing.  He was forced to fire that traitor John McCallum.

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18 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You're right about that.  Big 5th Column in the West.  China has the largest diaspora in the world out of any country.

No that's not what I meant at all. You seem to be bent on making this about race so what I meant is that we need to do more about the non-Chinese traitors in our midst.

Figures after years of supporting globalisation especially with China right wingers finally figure out they were wrong to do so and so now it's all about race.

ffs.

Edited by eyeball

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Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

Maybe, I read it yesterday, maybe they were wrong.  Every city has a Chinatown...

 

I think they were wrong based on available data.    Even Canada (10%) has a larger percentage of expats living outside of the country than China.

My local metro has no "Chinatown"...population 3.5 million.

 

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Well we'll see, at least Trump seems to have their number.  Trudeau licked their boots but I think his tune is changing.  He was forced to fire that traitor John McCallum.

Trump is not going to war with China, Trump is a businessman, he will make a deal, he's just leveraging them for more reciprocity.

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3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Our grandparents invested 25% of their GDP fighting tyranny and they'd be sick to their hearts if they could see how much our GDP now depends on dealing with tyrants.

If you don't want to trade with tyrants and regimes with bad human rights records then you won't be trading with most countries in the world.

If you want to impose western political priorities on developing countries then you also risk acting imperialistically.  But then again, you don't want to make jerkhole countries rich (which is most developing countries), nor do you want to keep poor countries poor.  Tough situation.

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