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Should Canada Retaliate Against China


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11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No that's not what I meant at all. You seem to be bent on making this about race so what I meant is that we need to do more about the non-Chinese traitors in our midst.

Figures after years of supporting globalisation especially with China right wingers finally figure out they were wrong to do so and so now it's all about race.

It's not about race.  It's about which country you are loyal to.  I have nothing wrong with Chinese-Canadians who are loyal to Canada.  I have Chinese-Canadian friends who are.

John McCallum is a white Canadian who is in China's pocket and not loyal to Canada.  And he was fired for it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCallum#Ambassador_to_China_(2017–2019)

Apparently if you stand up to China and demand loyalty from migrants you're racist.  This is why we don't.

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Figures after years of supporting globalisation especially with China right wingers finally figure out they were wrong to do so and so now it's all about race.

I never supported neoliberalism.  But yes they were wrong, but for reasons they didn't expect.  And now the left wants more globalism in trade and criticize people like Trump for wanting to limit some of the free trade because its "racist".  Interesting times we live in.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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I'd do anything to destroy the Chinese economy.  They're our #1 enemy.

Fighting is sometimes necessary as a last resort to defend yourself.  Pacifism leads to victimization.  You can lay down and take it up the butt from the Chinese or you can fight back.  Or you can pre

It also seems to be in human beings nature to apologize for their governments failings.  Looks like it's an even bigger act of will to say we screwed up. It's also our nature to change our own na

11 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Trump is not going to war with China, Trump is a businessman, he will make a deal, he's just leveraging them for more reciprocity.

Exactly.  I would just go well beyond what he's done, but then again he wants to win reelection.  Short term market pain would be bad for that.  He can do whatever he pleases in the 2nd term if he wins.

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Exactly.  I would just go well beyond what he's done, but then again he wants to win reelection.  Short term market pain would be bad for that.  He can do whatever he pleases in the 2nd term if he wins.

You can't go well beyond that without inciting a confrontation on the China Seas and America is simply not going to do that.

They have plenty of thermonuclear weapons, you only invoke a counterforce as an absolute last resort on the brink of world war.

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8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ah so it's about nationalism. Great improvement. 

The Chinese are extreme nationalists, for the most part.  So much so they are fascist.  The "Chinese Dream" is national rejuvenation, not individual success as in America.  Everything for the state in China: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22726375

Canadians don't need to give everything to the state, they just need to be loyal.

Ultimately it's not about nationalism, it's about survival of our way of life and our security and maintaining control of global politics by western democratic countries.  If you want a fascist totalitarian country with no concept of human rights to be running the world, that's your choice, i know you don't want that.

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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

You can't go well beyond that without inciting a confrontation on the China Seas and America is simply not going to do that.

They have plenty of thermonuclear weapons, you only invoke a counterforce as an absolute last resort on the brink of world war.

So what would your response be?

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Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

So what would your response be?

Business as usual, they are no threat to King Dollar, the completely rely on King Dollar to prop the Communist Party up, no need for us to go to war with them, them going to war with us is economic suicide.

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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Business as usual, they are no threat to King Dollar, the completely rely on King Dollar to prop the Communist Party up, no need for us to go to war with them, them going to war with us is economic suicide.

They're going to war without trying to not seem too much like they're going to war.  If they were smarter they'd be even less aggressive economically.  They would stop stealing tech and stop announcing they want to rule the world.

They're playing the long game.  Soon enough they will own King Dollar and many of its subsidiaries.

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They're going to war without trying to not seem too much like they're going to war.  If they were smarter they'd be even less aggressive economically.  They would stop stealing tech and stop announcing they want to rule the world.

They're playing the long game.  Soon enough they will own King Dollar and many of its subsidiaries.

They're not going to war, the Chinese economy is one big wealth transfer from them to us

You're not losing your jobs because of China, it's the Information Age revolution, which is not emanating from China but rather America.

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16 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Chinese are extreme nationalists, for the most part.  So much so they are fascist. 

Well, I'm a fascist too when I'm not a commie but of course that's when I switch to being a racist. Or so I've been told.

Yeah I've seen this playbook enough to know where it's going. 

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The problem for Canada is that Canada is a socialist welfare gulag propped up by natural resource commodities

As the Information Age has made information the most valuable commodity on Earth

Canada impaling itself in some sort of misguided confrontation with the Chinese who are not inciting this, is not going to help.

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24 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

They're not going to war, the Chinese economy is one big wealth transfer from them to us

 

That's not true at all.

https://youtu.be/4-2nqd6-ZXg?t=291

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You're not losing your jobs because of China, it's the Information Age revolution, which is not emanating from China but rather America.

I'm not worried about losing a ton of manufacturing jobs, i'm worried about China becoming a global superpower and surpassing the USA.  Then we won't have much leverage. 

Imagine what will happen when China's 1.4 billion domestic population becomes not poor and able to buy the things that they manufacture instead of just us.  We won't be needed nearly as much, and they can demand compliance.  Now China is starting to create the things that they manufacture.  Cellphones (Hauwei, OnePlus), laptops & servers (Lenovo), they now own the appliance division of General Electric (washers, dryers etc).  They've stolen Tesla IP and want to be the world leader in EVs.  Before it was us who created the products, and they would built it, and us who bought it.  More and more they're creating it, building it, and buying it themselves.\

Asians don't suck at math LOL.  Soon they'll be world leaders in IT, like Japan was.  And we'll be buying their stuff.  Like we bought Sony and Panasonic and Honda and Toyota.  Because it will be good and cheaper than anything we can produce.  Since everything is smart tech now, they'll be able to have mass surveillance on us and their own population.  Like a fascist dictatorship.  Fun times!

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3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm not worried about losing a ton of manufacturing jobs, i'm worried about China becoming a global superpower and surpassing the USA.

It's not going to happen while the Communist Party is running things

The source of all of America's wealth and power is the Flight to Quality

China without the rule of law, is not a safe haven

China only presents a threat to unseat America as the Global Hegemon if China has a revolution and adopts a true free market with the rule of law.

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

....I'm not worried about losing a ton of manufacturing jobs, i'm worried about China becoming a global superpower and surpassing the USA.  Then we won't have much leverage. 

 

 

China is already a global superpower.   The USA cannot always be the foil to China for western leverage.   USA is only 15% of world GDP and decreasing as other economies grow (China, India, Brazil, etc.).

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If China ever did achieve a Flight to Quality, that would actually be good for America, because then America would have to loosen things up in response, bring it on.

America actually does better when there is competition, ever since the Soviets went away, America has turned to internecine fights

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Canada will not be able to "retaliate" against China through the United States.   Trading flow favours China right now, and Canada is also losing ground on commodities (e.g. bitumen/oil).   Dying on the mountain called "human rights" with more virtue signaling will not win the day.   Even before China, Canada had been losing ground to Mexico for U.S. trade. 

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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada will not be able to "retaliate" against China through the United States.   Trading flow favours China right now, and Canada is also losing ground on commodities (e.g. bitumen/oil).   Dying on the mountain called "human rights" with more virtue signaling will not win the day.   Even before China, Canada had been losing ground to Mexico for U.S. trade. 

We did business with the Soviets while we were at the brink of World War Three

America has no natural enemies, unless and until the Hague Convention is invoked.

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5 hours ago, kactus said:

Such a silly thread to blame a whole nation  for this epidemy...

This will just fuel hatred against another nation.

Good.

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5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Hatred is emotion.  Emotion blinds logic.

China is spending and has spent enormous amounts of money on PR to blind the world to what it is: a brutal fascist government with ambitions of world leadership. I'd rather have people hating China, which would help support efforts to distance ourselves from them, then being complacent and accepting whatever our whore political leaders do to bring us closer to them.

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29 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Did we do business with the Nazis?  Probably.

Of course, the Nazis were the bulwark against the Bolsheviks,  until they sided with Mussolini against Britain & France over the Suez Canal to India and the Far East beyond.

Initially, Hitler and Mussolini were rivals, so Hitler was on our side, then he flipped to Mussolini's side in the Pact of Steel

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