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Should Canada Permanently Ban Immigration From China?


In light of the coronavirus, and the damage that it's caused  

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No.  The reason to be concerned about migration from China are the spies that they send to spy on our businesses to steal our IP and to spy on our government departments and facilities.    It's also a concern that the once here, Chinese migrants are to be loyal to China or their family back home with be threatened or jailed by the government.  But it's also a big problem to discriminate against all Chinese migrants obviously, so either way we're in a pickle.

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I would not say an outright ban, but I would definitely be one hell of a lot more discerning about who we take, cut the numbers down heavily, and do a lot more background checks (currently we do none) on these people to see just how closely affiliated they have been with the Chinese government and its security infrastructure.

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3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada isn't going to do jack about Chinese immigration because British Columbia would collapse.

I assume in a few decades it will be renamed Chinese Columbia by a vote.

Another thing i'm concerned about is when you have that many people of one ethnicity in one province they may start to demand things like language rights and vote in blocs, have their own federal party etc,  just like in Quebec.  That will be bad for our politics and national unity.

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13 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I assume in a few decades it will be renamed Chinese Columbia by a vote.

Another thing i'm concerned about is when you have that many people of one ethnicity in one province they may start to demand things like language rights and vote in blocs, have their own federal party etc,  just like in Quebec.  That will be bad for our politics and national unity.

Yeah, imagine a Chinese BC voting to separate from Canada, supported by China...

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3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Another thing i'm concerned about is when you have that many people of one ethnicity in one province they may start to demand things like language rights and vote in blocs, have their own federal party etc,  just like in Quebec.  That will be bad for our politics and national unity.

Oh, you mean like Alberta.  Yeah, I see your point.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Oh, you mean like Alberta.  Yeah, I see your point.

No like Quebec.  Alberta separatism is based on economics which can be more easily solved, Quebec it's based on nationalism, which is harder to solve.  Economics and taxes can change, languages and cultural differences not so much.

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Alberta separatism is based on economics which can be more easily solved, Quebec it's based on nationalism,

2. cultural differences not so much.

1. Like, if Trudeau bailed out their pipeline for $5B they would like him?

2. BINGO

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Canadian Sikh's made Jagmeet Singh (Jimmy Dhaliwal, he started going by Singh to appeal to Brampton Sikhs) the leader of the NDP through tons of late party membership signups and big-time donations.  I have nothing against Sikh Canadians, but voting based on ethnicity rather than policy is divisive and dangerous.  Just as it is white Canadians who won't vote for Jagmeet because of his ethnicity.

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On 3/19/2020 at 12:56 AM, ProudConservative said:

Would you be ok with discriminating against China, and not allowing any more of their citizen's to move to Canada, until China agrees to have elections?

I am perfectly fine banning them.   Those eating dogs, cats, bats, tadpoles and those that are still willing to buy parts from critically endangered species are not my brothers.  Sub-humans of some sort, maybe.

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6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Not my place to find the answer, but whatever the answer is it can be done with a stroke of a pen.  Quebec nationalism not so much.

Cultures develop.  Both Alberta and Quebec have crystalized their current cultures in my lifetime.  

Chinese people and Muslims will be Canadian, I'd different. 

Multiculturalism is a model for how these groups behave but so is the melting pot.  The Good Ingredient is freedom.  Trust it.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Cultures develop.  Both Alberta and Quebec have crystalized their current cultures in my lifetime.  

Chinese people and Muslims will be Canadian, I'd different. 

Multiculturalism is a model for how these groups behave but so is the melting pot.  The Good Ingredient is freedom.  Trust it.

Muslims aren't a big problem, they won't dominate an entire province in our lifetimes and ask for political self-determination, like Quebec.  If you're ok with BC becoming a Chinese province, China becoming an official provincial language, with a lot of people loyal to a hostile state, tell me how that would be good for Canada?

Show me a successful model for multiculturalism, i'll show you 50 more that lead to political strife, disunity, and calls for separatism, including Canada.  In order for multiculturalism to work, you have to give large minority groups political self-determination.  That means BC led by Chinese for Chinese, like in Quebec led by French for French, and hostile to the majority. And if the majority don't like it, then calls for separation.

And there will be the Chinese Canadian Party in federal politics, just like the Bloc.  Not Canadians for Canada, but Chinese Canadians for Chinese Canada.  Good times.

You're basically throwing your hands up and saying everything will take care of itself.  Don't be naive.

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39 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Muslims aren't a big problem, they won't dominate an entire province in our lifetimes and ask for political self-determination, like Quebec. 

2. If you're ok with BC becoming a Chinese province,

3. China becoming an official provincial language,

4. with a lot of people loyal to a hostile state, tell me how that would be good for Canada?

5. Show me a successful model for multiculturalism, i'll show you 50 more that lead to political strife, disunity, and calls for separatism, including Canada. 

6. In order for multiculturalism to work, you have to give large minority groups political self-determination.  That means BC led by Chinese for Chinese, like in Quebec led by French for French, and hostile to the majority. And if the majority don't like it, then calls for separation.

7. And there will be the Chinese Canadian Party in federal politics, just like the Bloc.  Not Canadians for Canada, but Chinese Canadians for Chinese Canada.  Good times.

8. You're basically throwing your hands up and saying everything will take care of itself.  Don't be naive.

1. Weird comparison, man.  The anglos were an incursion into Quebec.  Quebeckers weren't an incursion... well the FRENCH were but... you seem to have a framework of English Canadians being an immutable block.  It's not a workable model.

2. No I don't think we should give BC to China.

3. If official language for a province should change, as per the desires of the residents then why should I care ?  Ontario changed their official languages in my lifetime, no big deal.

4. That's a stupid assumption.  I know quite a few Chinese people and they came to Canada because they didn't want to live in China.  Just re-read that last sentence, as obvious as it is.  The proudest of them give a limp defence to some Chinese actions but they never move.  This is the same questioning of loyalty that Ango-Protestants have done to... John Kennedy, but also Joe Liberman - actually pretty much any Jew is regarded with suspicion.

5. Your standard of 'success' is impossible.  When you mix groups there is strife.  While I know you aren't doing this, your model for success should take this into account: If you value homogeneity above all, then obviously zero immigrants is the only way to go.  So Canada's low level of conflict, possibly lowest in the world, coupled with thriving economics and culture is a failure in your eyes.  At this point, of course there's no model that works.

6. No, you don't.  Where has that happened ?  Do YOU have any successful models for multiculturalism ?

7. Sci-Fi nonsense.

8. And you're saying Chinese people are much unlike Welsh, Scots, Irish, Italian, Greek, Jews, Ukranians, and other groups who have come to Canada and retained their cultural identity (multiculturalism) and yet contributed to China.  I'm not sure why. 

Your argument is just silly.

 

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You need to differentiate between a government and individual people.

Take Canada for instance. 

I wouldn't vouch for a single thing that our PM says or does, because I think that he's a complete idiot at best, or more likely, a traitor. If another country completely abhors Trudeau's ethics and laws, does that reflect on me? Nope. Every single other Canadian? Nope. 

The only argument that you could realistically make against Chinese immigrants is if there was some proof they remained loyal to the Chinese govt and were coming here to harm our country in some way that would benefit China.

Outside of that, the govt of China's policies is in no way tied to ex-Chinese who come here to be Canadian, mind their own business and raise their families.

It's possible that the whole theory of free, non-discriminatory democracies will eventually crash to the ground but I don't want to enact racist policies of our own to do it instantly.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Weird comparison, man.  The anglos were an incursion into Quebec. 

They were? How does one say anglos are an 'incursion' into Quebec and then say "The second an immigrant comes off the plane he is 100% as Canadians as everyone else!!"

I mean, seriously.

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4. That's a stupid assumption.  I know quite a few Chinese people

Oh well then that's good enough for me.

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and they came to Canada because they didn't want to live in China. 

Yes, but why? They didn't want to live impoverished. They didn't want to live in tiny, cramped towers. Have you ever seen the cages where some poorer Hong Kong residents live? They're just enough space for a cot.

But when those people came to Canada did they slough off Chinese culture and values and the sense of brotherhood they have for other Chinese? No. They settle, wherever possible, among others just like them. According to CSIS pretty much all Chinese language media in Canada is controlled by "Canadians" who are loyal to the Chinese government, and they pump out regular doses of news designed to please the Chinese Communist Party.

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actually pretty much any Jew is regarded with suspicion.

Yes, because of the expected dual loyalties. But Israel is an Allie where China is an enemy, and a democracy where China is a fascist imperialist regime. And China makes no secret of its growing efforts at appealing to the Chinese diaspora and it's loyalty to the idea of Chinese nationalism. And every Chinese Canadian businessman who or important community member here is approached by China and reminded that if they want to do business with Chinese companies, and want to ensure their family is safe, they will take the line the Party tells them to. And so they do.

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5.Your standard of 'success' is impossible.  When you mix groups there is strife. 

But I thought diversity was our strength!! Yet every country with 'diversity' has strife, sometimes, often, enough to cause violence and breakup.

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6. No, you don't.  Where has that happened ?  Do YOU have any successful models for multiculturalism ?

More noteworthy is that you do not.

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7. Sci-Fi nonsense.

Sci-Fi nonsense that an overwhelmingly Chinese ethnic province would seek self-determination from the rest of the country, perhaps under the influence of Chinese agents? Oh wait, I forgot, you don't actually know anything about sci-fi or fantasy because you dismiss it all as silliness.

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On 3/20/2020 at 1:48 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Weird comparison, man.  The anglos were an incursion into Quebec.  Quebeckers weren't an incursion... well the FRENCH were but... you seem to have a framework of English Canadians being an immutable block.  It's not a workable model.

2. No I don't think we should give BC to China.

3. If official language for a province should change, as per the desires of the residents then why should I care ?  Ontario changed their official languages in my lifetime, no big deal.

4. That's a stupid assumption.  I know quite a few Chinese people and they came to Canada because they didn't want to live in China.  Just re-read that last sentence, as obvious as it is.  The proudest of them give a limp defence to some Chinese actions but they never move.  This is the same questioning of loyalty that Ango-Protestants have done to... John Kennedy, but also Joe Liberman - actually pretty much any Jew is regarded with suspicion.

5. Your standard of 'success' is impossible.  When you mix groups there is strife.  While I know you aren't doing this, your model for success should take this into account: If you value homogeneity above all, then obviously zero immigrants is the only way to go.  So Canada's low level of conflict, possibly lowest in the world, coupled with thriving economics and culture is a failure in your eyes.  At this point, of course there's no model that works.

6. No, you don't.  Where has that happened ?  Do YOU have any successful models for multiculturalism ?

7. Sci-Fi nonsense.

8. And you're saying Chinese people are much unlike Welsh, Scots, Irish, Italian, Greek, Jews, Ukranians, and other groups who have come to Canada and retained their cultural identity (multiculturalism) and yet contributed to China.  I'm not sure why. 
 

1. Huh?

2. Ok

3.  It means Chinese-Canadians aren't assimilating.  If immigrants are able to get by without learning English or French, they will keep their native language.  Chinese-Canadians not being able to communicate with the rest of Canadians is very bad for unity.  See Quebec.

4.  And I know many younger Chinese-Canadians that strongly defend the Chinese government because they feel they China is rising at an incredible rate and turning them into a global power with the world's strongest economy.  I also know Chinese, mainly older ones, that dislike the China government.  Even still, they can't publicly criticize them because their family in China may be intimidated and coerced.

5.  No that's not my position at all.  If you bring in immigrants, you should make sure that they are assimilated, and you make sure they remain loyal to Canada.  That was hard if not impossible to do in Quebec, since francophones colonized Canada before the current anglo majority.  Many Quebeckers are loyal to Quebec but not Canada.  If we have a chance to avoid similar sub-nationalism with immigrants, especially those who are and will continue to be concentrated more and more in mass amounts in one geographic area, we need to do so.  Immigrants trickle in, it's not that difficult to do.  All I want is for immigrants to become Canadian, and not just Canadian in legal status only.  I want them to join our family, most immigrants I know have.  A piece of paper isn't enough, your heart also must be there.

We've successfully fully integrated immigrants in the past and still do, but most (not all cases) tended to come in lesser total numbers and were less concentrated.  The more immigrants in a single area, the less assimilated they will be, because they won't be exposed to other Canadians as much, and they'll be able to keep with their own kind more, and won't need to learn or use our language(s) as much.  While being in Vancouver and Toronto areas, i've never felt so much social distrust between people.  Quebec is different, they trust each other but didn't trust me (an anglo outsider).  We need to prevent this.

6.  No.  I heard Switzerland has done well with multiculturalism, but I don't know it well.

7.  So you say.

8.  Scots and Irish don't speak or write in another language and their cultures are very similar to other anglos.  Scottish and Irish nationalism exists and existed, but it's not nearly as strong as Chinese nationalism.  China is not only its own nation, it is its own civilization.  It has its own langauge, writing systems, religions, and ancient history etc.  The other groups you mentioned were not concentrated in one area of one province in mass numbers that will continue to grow indefinitely, isolated from the rest of Canada on the coast.

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57 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

3.  It means Chinese-Canadians aren't assimilating.  If immigrants are able to get by without learning English or French, they will keep their native language.  Chinese-Canadians not being able to communicate with the rest of Canadians is very bad for unity.  See Quebec.ea of one province in mass numbers that will continue to grow indefinitely, isolated from the rest of Canada on the coast.

I don't think you quite grasp how the globalists think. Chinese not assimilating is not a problem to him. He doesn't want people to assimilate. He delights in the polyglot differences of multiple cultures, languages and values. He feels no particular affection or approval for anything people might describe as Canadian culture, traditions and values. Like Trudeau he probably denies it has any anyway.

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23 minutes ago, Argus said:

I don't think you quite grasp how the globalists think. Chinese not assimilating is not a problem to him. He doesn't want people to assimilate. He delights in the polyglot differences of multiple cultures, languages and values. He feels no particular affection or approval for anything people might describe as Canadian culture, traditions and values. Like Trudeau he probably denies it has any anyway.

I know that.

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9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I know that.

Then you are trying to argue colour with a colourblind man. He literally does not undestand where you're coming from or why you're concerned.

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On 3/19/2020 at 8:38 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

No.  The reason to be concerned about migration from China are the spies that they send to spy on our businesses to steal our IP and to spy on our government departments and facilities.    It's also a concern that the once here, Chinese migrants are to be loyal to China or their family back home with be threatened or jailed by the government.  But it's also a big problem to discriminate against all Chinese migrants obviously, so either way we're in a pickle.

All the more reason to want to ban all immigration from China. I mean, it's not like we do not have enough Asians in Canada already, and as you said, they must all be loyal to the Chinese communists who only kill people who dare to question their communist authority. We need to also stop doing business with communist China. Why are we all supporting a communist regime that does not believe in freedom of speech and assembly. There are hundreds of thousands of new Chinese immigrants that have come to Canada in the past couple of decades or so. No doubt as you say, all could be spies. Hey, you never know, eh? 

Why would you say "no" anyway? I am curious about that one? Are you afraid of being called a racist by chance?   :)

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On 3/19/2020 at 8:42 AM, cannuck said:

China is a very big place (1/4 of the whole world) and just as with every other immigrant candidate, we should simply be selective of WHO is coming in, not where they are from.

We are not being selective with all of them that come here too Canada. Those that are trying to sneak into the country from illegal entry points are not 'selective" ones. And what is happening to these non-selective ones after they get here? Who know how many of these non-selective ones are being selected to stay in Canada who have really nothing to offer Canada anything except maybe get to stay here for free and get everything from the Canadian taxpayer's for free and all of course at our tax dollars expense. Personally, we need a moratorium now. Canada is full already. Enough already. ;)

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On 3/19/2020 at 9:25 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada isn't going to do jack about Chinese immigration because British Columbia would collapse.

Along with the East Indians, the Asians pretty much now own BC. The East Indians are buying up everything while the British/European people start to become a minority. but who here cares anyway. To talk like this is to be called a racist. I wonder how long it will be before BC does not look like BC any more if you get my drift? Just wondering, that's all. ;)

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