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In the meantime, London has lost more bus drivers to the bug than doctors. Buses crammed full of construction workers because they felt that they should be able to go to work if they wanted to and cou

Let me help you put your mind at ease. You don't need to argue this point. I hardly see anyone who thinks it. We can all see how this virus is bad and must be safeguarded against. All viruses that kil

Partial travel bans are like having a pissing section in a swimming pool.

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54 minutes ago, dialamah said:

No, he's not ok.  

That is a pity. Wish hom all the best. From what I see, all these precautions are not as helpful as people wish them to be.

As I mentioned here several times, theres not very much risk even with close contact but for when you are there indoors, long periods of time. The paper masks, scarves, cannot protect from this. It really is a matter of proper technique.

The shutdowns and stuff, actually create their own forms of harm and it is right to question these things.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

A few months ago @OftenWrongwas weeping over the fact that gramma couldn't have visitors, to "prove" his personal theory about Covid response.  Now he's happily counting her death to "prove" his personal theory about Covid response.

Sorry but there's nothing here I can respond to. Your assessment is false. Ad Hominem, smearing the facts. And dumb, typical and boring besides. Don't expect me to follow you into the gutter.

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

That is a pity. Wish hom all the best. From what I see, all these precautions are not as helpful as people wish them to be.

Aren't you one of those who say "protect the vulnerable"?  He's one of the "vulnerable", but you continue to denounce mask-wearing despite all the information confirming that mask-wearing helps protect people from this virus. So please, explain how you propose the vulnerable be protected, if not by including masks with distancing and hand washing?  

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/cloth-masks-do-protect-the-wearer-breathing-in-less-coronavirus-means-you

 

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

explain how you propose the vulnerable be protected, if not by including masks with distancing and hand washing? 

Already explained so many rimes here. Its about the right techniques, not just going through motions. 

Not catching a virus requires skills you do not have. You and most people will get it, or already had it and didnt even know.

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12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Its about the right techniques, not just going through motions

So, you criticized people alone in cars, wearing masks.  Yet, "tight techniques" means cleaning one's hands, donning the mask, leaving it alone till they're done with mask wearing, cleaning their hands, removing and discarding (or cleaning) the mask.  

Basically, you made fun of people who could reasonably be seen as practicing good mask-wearing technique.  Why would you do that?  

18 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Already explained so many rimes here. 

Nope.  Its "protect the vulnerable", with no plausible explanation of how to do that.

20 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You and most people will get it, or already had it and didnt even know.

Lets see who catches it - we who take care, or you who do not.

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13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Lets see who catches it - we who take care, or you who do not.

You already have it in your household essentially, despite whatever precautions you took. They didnt work.

Germans have it every bit as bad as other EU nations, despite their policies. All that misguided effort only gave them minimum return.

Everything I have said in this thread since March is verifiable, has been verified, by the links I back up my statements with. Every prediction I made about the effects of mass quarantine and shutdown has come true. From cancer to economics to substance abuse and suicide.

And its not because I am lucky or just use Google all the time.

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20 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I use raw evidence, not "claims". There is a big difference.

I don't see that; you use sources and sites, just as many others do.  And while you prefer sources and sites that tend to go against the mainstream, that doesn't mean they're automatically right.

But to be fair, the one thing I agree you raised earlier than most was the issue of mental health due to lockdowns or restrictions.

So a reasonable question might be - is an uptick in mental health issues worth making sure our hospitals and medical systems weren't overwhelmed by covid patients at the onset of the pandemic?  Was the attempt at avoiding scenarios like Italy, Spain and New York successful?  I think it was.  I understand people are suffering, but I daresay the ones complaining the most are the ones who have not been personally affected by the death or serious and long-term illness of a loved one - whether old or young - from Covid.

While you seem to prefer to focus on momentary (relatively speaking) discomfort of job loss, isolation or mask wearing, others prefer to focus on avoiding, as much as possible, the permanency of death to ourselves or people we care about.  

Yes, my heart hurts for those who are facing financial hardship and loneliness, people trapped in homes in which they do not feel safe, just as my heart hurts for people who've already been affected by Covid.  But death is permanent, while the other effects are not.  So I put considerably more importance on efforts to reduce the spread of Covid and thus save lives.  

I don't really suppose you are 100% wrong, or I am 100% right, except about the usefulness of mask wearing.

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With the Trump Admin admitting they can't control the virus, I suspect we'll see more of this all across the US. 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/
 

Quote

 

With new coronavirus cases shattering records on a daily basis, Utah’s hospitals are expected to begin rationing care in a week or two.

That’s the prediction of Greg Bell, president of the Utah Hospital Association, who said administrators of the state’s hospitals confronted Gov. Gary Herbert on Thursday with a grim list: Criteria they propose doctors should use if they are forced to decide which patients can stay in overcrowded intensive care units.

Under the criteria, which would require Herbert’s approval, patients who are getting worse despite receiving intensive care would be moved out first. In the event that two patients' conditions are equal, the young get priority over the old, since older patients are more likely to die.

 

Sorry your mother was kicked out of the ICU because a few younger anti-maskers showed up. :(

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8 minutes ago, Boges said:

With the Trump Admin admitting they can't control the virus, I suspect we'll see more of this all across the US. 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/
 

Sorry your mother was kicked out of the ICU because a few younger anti-maskers showed up. :(

Triage - a better option than wearing a mask or staying home, I guess.

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So people who are 28 dont get their cancer diagnosis and treatment, put on hold, based on the presumption it may overwhelm our hospitals. Who has the right to chose that, for them? And all because of a “what if” scenario.

I say that choice is simply not acceptable.

We see the same pattern now, the serious cases are in the old age facilities. So why didnt we, from March until now, take more drastic action to protect, said 90 year olds?

Wouldnt it make sense to take 1 billion dollars and use it to build a number of safe facilities to protect the vulnerable, keeping the rest of society open?  Do you remember the Chinese building that 10000 room hospital?

Apparently not deemed a worthwhile investment by our government. They are just old people after all, gonna die anyway.

So lets count them and use it to justify, why businesses and shops and schools should close.

Oh, but liquor store open. 

I tell you what,

Edited by OftenWrong
removed swearing
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14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

people who are 28 dont get their cancer diagnosis and treatment, put on hold, based on the presumption it may overwhelm our hospitals. Who has the right to chose that, for them? And all because of a “what if” scenario.

Hospitals overwhelmed aren't "what-if" scenarios.  Its already happened around the world, and is now happening in Utah, where plans are in place to ration care, and give preference to young people over old people, because so many are sick with Covid.

Just because these things haven't happened in Canada yet doesn't mean they couldn't.  

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Wouldnt it make sense to take 1 billion dollars and use it to build a number of safe facilities to protect the vulnerable, keeping the rest of society open?  

Do you even know who the "vulnerable" are?  Its not just old people; its people with diabetes, heart disease, cancer, or cancer survivors, COPD, overweight/obese, liver disease, kidney disease, hypothyroidism, transplant patients - the list could go on and on.  We can't take 20% or 30% or 50% of the population and separate them from everybody else, thats just dumb.  

And its not just having a lack of beds to put sick people-its medical staff to take care of them.  Medical staff also get sick and die; some will burn out.  In places where hospitals were overwhelmed, they spent months away from their family because they didn't want to put kids, spouses, parents at risk.

Also, a few months ago you were crying about old people in care homes not being able to see families - how terrible that was.   Now, suddenly, its your solution.  What has changed? 

Reducing, as much as possible, the spread of this virus is the most sensible course of action.  Our shut-down earlier this year, soft as it was, saved lives.  Authorities everywhere want to avoid another shutdown, hard or soft, and are attempting to slow the spread through other means - including curfews, masks, limits on gathering.  

But of course, there's that subset of society who think their rights to live life as if there is no pandemic trumps the rights of the rest of us - including the vulnerable - to be as safe as we can and remain part of society.

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I am not aware of any report stating hospitals are overwhelmed due to the load of seriously ill patients in Canada. The number of seriously ill has been low compared to the size of our country and number of hospitals.

But to be fair, we can say our hospitals have always been terribly overloaded. We just never cared before like we do now. When we say Canada has a 90% occupancy rate in our hospitals before COVID, making us among the very worst of so-called first word nations.

I've already explained it upteen times.

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11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

But of course, there's that subset of society who think their rights to live life as if there is no pandemic trumps the rights of the rest of us - including the vulnerable - to be as safe as we can and remain part of society.

No one here says this. Why don't you grow a brain and read what people are truly saying. You won't get an intelligent answer from me with bullshit like this.

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27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No one here says this. Why don't you grow a brain and read what people are truly saying.

You are one of those that deny the benefit of mask wearing and in your last post proposed spending billions on building places "for the vulnerable" (while clearly not understanding just who "the vulnerable" encompasses), so that rest of society could continue on as normal.

Also, I read your post.  If you intended to say something else, that's on you, not me.  If people are misunderstanding you, you need to learn to express yourself better.

33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Why don't you grow a brain and read what people are truly saying. You won't get an intelligent answer from me with bullshit like this

I'm happy to wait while you formulate an intelligent answer.  I'd truly like to read one. 

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24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You are one of those that deny the benefit of mask wearing and in your last post proposed spending billions on building places "for the vulnerable" (while clearly not understanding just who "the vulnerable" encompasses), so that rest of society could continue on as normal.

Also, I read your post.  If you intended to say something else, that's on you, not me.  If people are misunderstanding you, you need to learn to express yourself better.

I'm happy to wait while you formulate an intelligent answer.  I'd truly like to read one. 

Sorry, no. That's all for you for a while, until you rethink your attitude. I'm not here to waste my time.

 

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Opioid deaths skyrocket, mental health suffers due to pandemic restrictions, new federal report says

CBC
The overall health of the population has deteriorated over the last eight months, with more people turning to drugs, alcohol, tobacco and screen time.


This is the solution they have given us. They created a crisis, in trying to stop a crisis. Unacceptable.

 

covid-cda-20201013.jpg

Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam looks annoyed during a press conference on the mental health crisis, which she has helped to create.

 

Further-

Confirming what has been well-documented already, PHAC found that long-term care (LTC) homes have been the epicentre of COVID-19-related deaths because "pandemic preparedness did not extend into these settings." The report said LTC facilities' limited supplies of personal protective equipment, old infrastructure, poor ventilation and chronic understaffing led to more infections.

 

That's right, well-documented already. By me, right here in this web site.

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