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Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19  

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I understand perfectly well how food gets from my boat to your table but more importantly I understand where that food comes from before it gets to my boat.

Sounds like a nice lofty pedestal from which to wax eloquently to the naive :lol:

I wonder if the authors of The Commanding Heights who wrote their book in 1998 ever read or heard of the land ethic Aldo Leopold wrote about in his Sand County Almanac written in 1949?  Perhaps they did but just didn't care. It's telling that amongst the 14 chapter titles in The Commanding Heights there is not a single word or hint of recognition of the natural capital of the world far beneath them.  So far up in the clouds they obscure the reality below I guess.

Anyone else remember that old Star Trek episode the Cloud Minders?

Star Trek Re-Watch: “The Cloud Minders”

I agree that we have to keep the oceans clean.  Environmental protection is an important part of safeguarding the food supply. However, if we want to maintain some variety in our diets, so that the coastal people aren’t just eating fish and central Canadians aren’t just eating meat and root vegetables, that means maintaining large food distribution networks, which requires energy supply, whether electric or fuel-based.  You want cheap food and goods?  That requires cheap migrant labour to harvest our crops and low-wage offshore manufacturing.  Are we ready to give that up?  We may have to.

It comes back to finding a happy medium.  I’d like to see more domestic manufacturing and local food supply, but that means that the cost of living will rise and variety will come at a premium.  The benefits will be a cleaner, more sustainable and independent economy that can’t be pulled out from our under our feet by foreign players and threats. We can share information globally but produce more locally, exporting in the areas where we have an advantage due to our available resources and expertise.  We can work fewer hours in smaller groupings with slower growth, but we will work smarter, putting automation to work for us.

I think it will turn out that we can get by quite well with less, but we’ll have simpler lifestyles, with less traffic, travel, and stress, living lighter on the land, using less energy, but with more independence and adaptability.  Emissions will drop as part of this movement, which is somewhat of a return to village life, except with technology and connections to big cities and the wider world that can be temporarily severed as needed without destroying the global network.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think it will turn out that we can get by quite well with less, but we’ll have simpler lifestyles, with less traffic, travel, and stress, living lighter on the land, using less energy, but with more independence and adaptability.

The challenge we face locally is how much what you've described goes against the grain of globalization. Compounding that is the fact our provincial and national governments are far to prone to influence from powerful globalized interests that go far beyond what locals can compete with.  Hence the need to penetrate the smoke-filled back-rooms of power by outlawing in-camera lobbying and...you know the drill.

The intricacies and seemingly inter-dependant supply chains you mention do far more than drive costs down they dis-empower local people by privatizing all the natural resources in a region, harvest them for as cheaply as possible then ship them abroad to the cheapest place of processing or assembling and then selling it all back for the highest price possible.  Horizontally integrated multi-national corporations that harvest, process/assemble ship and wholesale/retail are so powerful that even governments as big as ours are hard pressed to keep up.

The solution isn't to redistribute wealth as so many tremble in fear of its to redistribute power. Why that terrifies so many people is a mystery.  Its what I would expect from a herd of sheep without a shepherd not people.

 

Edited by eyeball

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49 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The challenge we face locally is how much what you've described goes against the grain of globalization. Compounding that is the fact our provincial and national governments are far to prone to influence from powerful globalized interests that go far beyond what locals can compete with.  Hence the need to penetrate the smoke-filled back-rooms of power by outlawing in-camera lobbying and...you know the drill.

The intricacies and seemingly inter-dependant supply chains you mention do far more than drive costs down they dis-empower local people by privatizing all the natural resources in a region, harvest them for as cheaply as possible then ship them abroad to the cheapest place of processing or assembling and then selling it all back for the highest price possible.  Horizontally integrated multi-national corporations that harvest, process/assemble ship and wholesale/retail are so powerful that even governments as big as ours are hard pressed to keep up.

The solution isn't to redistribute wealth as so many tremble in fear of its to redistribute power. Why that terrifies so many people is a mystery.  Its what I would expect from a herd of sheep without a shepherd not people.

 

Well a few things.  We need strong global entities to deal with global problems like pandemics, pollution of air and water, climate change, and clearly oppressive regimes.  There will remain a need for some form of global policing or else smaller and more vulnerable countries will be invaded, minority or vulnerable groups will be mistreated or murdered, and people in countries with strong environmental standards will be impacted by the terrible disregard of air and water quality by bad actors. I also think that trade must be more closely tied to standards on the environment, labour, and obvious human rights.  Countries shouldn’t be able to sell into our markets with what are essentially forms of slave labour, obviously.

On the other hand, national governments should be serving local human development goals and seeking to export those standards in foreign policy, but through economic measures rather than military ones, unless clear oppression is taking place.  Intervention in other countries shouldn’t happen against the will of the peoples of those countries and without a clear mandate from voters   The aftermath and clean up costs must be factored into the proposals, as they must be for domestic resource development.

Redistributing power isn’t easy, because sometimes the people who are empowered simply don’t have the means or expertise to run systems of governance, which is why revolutions are generally bad news.  Look at Zimbabwe, Russia, China... There can be no true independence without self-sustainability.  There’s nothing wrong with a certain amount of interdependence, but we need to be able to batten down the hatches in crisis.

With regard to the mission to end in camera lobbying and political decision making, while I agree in principle, there is a certain amount of honest discussion that, if under public scrutiny, would lead to a kind of mob entanglement.  It happens when the wise and capable technocrats run up against the angry and ill-informed.   Presenting the findings and using data-based decision making is necessary, but we elect people who represent what we want, recognizing that their wishes won’t please everyone, and we have to be careful not to empower the dangerous and ignorant few, who can bring our economy to a standstill if they think that they have a right to destroy what has been approved by our regulatory bodies and democratic governments.   Trudeau has dabbled dangerously in that.  His dad knew when it was time to bring down the hammer on the FLQ.  Junior is naive.

 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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50 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Redistributing power isn’t easy, because sometimes the people who are empowered simply don’t have the means or expertise to run systems of governance, which is why revolutions are generally bad news.  Look at Zimbabwe, Russia, China... There can be no true independence without self-sustainability.  There’s nothing wrong with a certain amount of interdependence, but we need to be able to batten down the hatches in crisis.

I'm talking about much much smaller jurisdictions.  I explained why back in the Before Times when pointing to the importance of indigenous-based territories.  Read up on bioregionalism and apply it to Canada for starters.  Bioregionalism calls for decentralizing resource management to much smaller autonomous jurisdictions based on physical features of the land like watersheds, basins or islands for example and the socioeconomic interests of the people who occupy them.

National governments should be more focused on facilitating that independence while simultaneously seeking greater international interdependence.  The bioregions will best figure out how to deal with one another within a facilitated process they control rather than one they have no control over.  As the saying went back during the Salmon Wars it's harder to stab your competitor in the back when he's sitting across a table from you. 

The tragedy of the commons, which I'm surprised you haven't mentioned can be far best addressed locally than distantly. When you hear something like "too many boats are chasing too few fish" and "nobody takes care of something unless they own it" the given solution is to privatize natural resources, like fish, so owners will take care of them.  Everything is then managed by privately owned quotas which become monetized and very expensive resulting with too much money chasing too few fish.  The tragedy of the commons which is too much opportunity in too many hands, is replaced with the tragedy of enclosure or too much opportunity placed in too few hands.  

Quote

With regard to your mission to end in camera lobbying and political decision making, while I agree in principle, there is a certain amount of honest discussion that, if under public scrutiny, would lead to a kind of mob entanglement.  

Yes this fear of triggering the masses is a key ingredient in the kool-aid served up in response to suggestions we do anything to clarify our governance.  As I said going in-camera is appropriate when a municipal council is faced with the drinking problem of an employee for example but not when discussing a development on a river that impacts a local drinking supply or fish stock locals depend on for their living.  The allowance of the first example of in-camera discussion I described deals with privacy the latter use of in-camera discussion is strictly about secrecy.  Something that should be strictly outlawed in any situation that impacts the public's domain. This principle should hold true right up to discussions involving our military alliances and engagements. Especially our engagements overseas. 

Edited by eyeball

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19 hours ago, marcus said:

I agree. It's greed. Milking the system for every last cent is the issue. Manufacturers set-up shop in China and other countries with cheap labour, just so they can make more money for the shareholders. We do need to be more self-reliant. But how do you do it? Create a protectionist system where we charge extra taxes on foreign goods coming in? Doesn't that go against the free market? Is there a balance?

I think the solution may come from the consumers themselves, forcing their governments to take some sort of punitive action against China, Australia's government is looking hard at doing just that, it so happened that some major Companies in Australia owned by the Chinese government instructed their Chinese employees to buy up massive amounts of masks ,gowns, other medical supplies to the tune of 1000 tones and flew it to China....It's got them in a little tizzy… anyway now they are changing the laws in regarding how much a foreign country can invest or purchase Businesses and resources  to zero, still in their parliamentary process.

During a news exposé they clearly showed their dairy industry , meaning farms, distribution, advertising, where almost 90 % Chinese owned and operated....along with many , many more business within their country.  they have been talks about seizing all these assets. This may be the wake up call everyone has been waiting for...China has been buying up everything in sight, from business and resources and western nations have allowed this to go unchecked for dozens of years...take a look at the oil sands and how much Chinese funding is involved.  They seem to have unlimited amount of funds, and nothing makes a western bend over faster , than suit cases full of money...until one day we wake up and find the Chinese flag hanging over Ottawa....man that would be a liberals' wet dream , OK maybe not every liberals dream, but certainly Justins. think French is hard to learn....try Mandarin. 

Anyways I think we can all agree a lot of things are going to change, once we come out of this nightmare, maybe it will take a wage review, along with a product pricing review, maybe it is time to tax the shit out of everything imported from China....Not that I'm a big trump fan but in NAFTA ,Mexico labor for veh manufactures was force to increase what they payed their workers.. maybe the same can happen in china...take some of their advantage away.... or maybe our entire market gets a reset, and government nationalize critical manufacture needs such as medical equipment, medicines, etc .  then tax the crap out of everything.... 

 

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2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

think French is hard to learn....try Mandarin. 

Would that be harder or easier than being forced to learn Arabic?

Is it just me or do the Before Times seem as distant as a couple of shoppers at Walmart? I can't recall if they were happier or just as meh as always.

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56 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I think the solution may come from the consumers themselves, forcing their governments to take some sort of punitive action against China, Australia's government is looking hard at doing just that, it so happened that some major Companies in Australia owned by the Chinese government instructed their Chinese employees to buy up massive amounts of masks ,gowns, other medical supplies to the tune of 1000 tones and flew it to China....It's got them in a little tizzy… anyway now they are changing the laws in regarding how much a foreign country can invest or purchase Businesses and resources  to zero, still in their parliamentary process.

During a news exposé they clearly showed their dairy industry , meaning farms, distribution, advertising, where almost 90 % Chinese owned and operated....along with many , many more business within their country.  they have been talks about seizing all these assets. This may be the wake up call everyone has been waiting for...China has been buying up everything in sight, from business and resources and western nations have allowed this to go unchecked for dozens of years...take a look at the oil sands and how much Chinese funding is involved.  They seem to have unlimited amount of funds, and nothing makes a western bend over faster , than suit cases full of money...until one day we wake up and find the Chinese flag hanging over Ottawa....man that would be a liberals' wet dream , OK maybe not every liberals dream, but certainly Justins. think French is hard to learn....try Mandarin. 

Anyways I think we can all agree a lot of things are going to change, once we come out of this nightmare, maybe it will take a wage review, along with a product pricing review, maybe it is time to tax the shit out of everything imported from China....Not that I'm a big trump fan but in NAFTA ,Mexico labor for veh manufactures was force to increase what they payed their workers.. maybe the same can happen in china...take some of their advantage away.... or maybe our entire market gets a reset, and government nationalize critical manufacture needs such as medical equipment, medicines, etc .  then tax the crap out of everything.... 

 

Well one barrier to doing things in the national interest has been interprovincial disagreement.  I think that one of the biggest mistakes the Feds have made is not bringing in Energy East. Quebec is foolish not to embrace guaranteed access to Alberta oil.  The US and China will burn through and become dependent on our oil and natural gas pipelines.  We should be refining and using our own oil.  Right now that may seem completely unnecessary, but a huge part of independence is energy independence.  Trudeau Senior understood this.  We should at least pipe it to Ontario refineries. Even if we don’t bother much with that oil now, it’s an important national infrastructure project. Maybe those willing workers who test negative can use this time to build the infrastructure of tomorrow.  Subways and high speed rail.   It beats paying money for nothing and keeps up morale.   

Edited by Zeitgeist
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14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well one barrier to doing things in the national interest has been interprovincial disagreement.  I think that one of the biggest mistakes the Feds have made is not bringing in Energy East. Quebec is foolish not to embrace guaranteed access to Alberta oil.  The US and China will burn through and become dependent on our oil and natural gas pipelines.  We should be refining and using our own oil.  Right now that may seem completely unnecessary, but a huge part of independence is energy independence.  Trudeau Senior understood this.  We should at least pipe it to Ontario refineries. Even if we don’t bother much with that oil now, it’s an important national infrastructure project. Maybe those willing workers who test negative can use this time to build the infrastructure of tomorrow.  Subways and high speed rail.   It beats paying money for nothing and keeps up morale.   

I think there are going to be a lot of willing Premiers once this blows over, atleast in getting medically prepared. I don't think the time was right for energy east, , the bloc party is not going to support anything in that regards claiming they don't want dirty oil....maybe after this is over they are going to be more willing to look at it, if not just for the employment factor, I don't get why we have not done it before, purchasing Saudi oil , or refined fuels of the states makes no sense at all. a made in Canada solution is what is best for Canada and all the provinces, regardless of our current climate change initiative. 

Personally I think we should be starting to limit our connection to china. finding other sources for our meat, grains , etc, and oil...I also think if the US wants our crude , perhaps it is a good time to negotiate a new price, more beneficial to our side of the house, (I really don't think they need our crude, I think it's it cheap price that drives the sales to the US.) I also think we should also be looking at stopping all Chinese investment into our resources and business, as many other counties are starting too consider or in the process of doing . Plus start with tariffs on all Chinese products to help with reducing the flow...

I also agree we should be getting something out of all this spending and debt, smashing through a national pipeline might be a project to get start reducing our massive unemployment, but part of that project is also building more refineries that are capable of refining bitumen products, I know Irving was suppose to modify or build a refinery but Quebec's new leaders put a hold on all of that. But this would take months to set up and organize and won't happen any time soon. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 10:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Green policies would be touted by some as of critical importance to how we operate all of the above, but we can’t have our own truly green policies when we’re in a global marketplace competing with countries that refuse to bear the costs of climate action, let alone high labour standards and wages.  A system is only as strong as its weakest link.

A year from now we will likely be in a depression. All those asinine regulations about multi-year hearings and multi-year environmental assessments and 'community acceptance' of resource projects have to end. It cannot take ten years to get a new mine or pipeline in operation. We cannot have carbon taxes hampering our industrial production and driving it away to China, India, Mexico, the US or other countries which have no such taxes. We will need jobs immediately. We need pipelines to the west coast, and to the east coast to supply our own refineries. And screw what the environmentalists want or say or do or think.

On 4/4/2020 at 10:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

  I don’t see any point in dwelling on that possibility, but wherever this came from, we must never let ourselves become so susceptible to outside threats again, not in trade, defence, food supply, medical supplies, and even political ideas.  We can’t have our own policies without true self-sustainability.  We see the totalitarianism of China and the radical self-interest of the Trump regime (stopping the export of 3M N95 masks and diverting deliveries of equipment destined for other countries to the US, as happened to Germany).   We have to be careful and shouldn’t assume we can rely on other countries or regions.  It’s not every man for himself and we are stronger together, but be prepared to go it alone with your family or selected community.

The US is heading for totalitarianism, too. Trump just fired an inspector general for not disobeying the law to protect him. I have a feeling that if he gets re-elected all senior officials will be required to take an oath of loyalty to him, not the constitution. We have to look to our own security, and our own supply chains, as Doug Ford has said. We need to declare certain industries in need of protection from cheap but unreliable foreign competition, like those which will make PPE and medicine, as in the national interest and do whatever is necessary to maintain and protect them. We also need to built up our military. We'll need to do something about the legions of unemployed young men anyway, or they're going to be a problem.

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7 minutes ago, Argus said:

The US is heading for totalitarianism, too. Trump just fired an inspector general for not disobeying the law to protect him. I have a feeling that if he gets re-elected all senior officials will be required to take an oath of loyalty to him, not the constitution. We have to look to our own security, and our own supply chains, as Doug Ford has said. We need to declare certain industries in need of protection from cheap but unreliable foreign competition, like those which will make PPE and medicine, as in the national interest and do whatever is necessary to maintain and protect them. We also need to built up our military. We'll need to do something about the legions of unemployed young men anyway, or they're going to be a problem.

 

Well, it's not like Trudeau and the Liberals kept Jody Wilson Raybold in their caucus either.    Bye bye Jody !

But all the rest....definitely.    Canada should see this as a wake up call, having ignored many others in the past.

...no more pretending otherwise.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, it's not like Trudeau and the Liberals kept Jody Wilson Raybold in their caucus either.    Bye bye Jody !

The difference between us is I do not defend Trudeau.

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5 minutes ago, Argus said:

The difference between us is I do not defend Trudeau.

 

It's not about you or me....no prizes will be awarded either way.

Canada chose Trudeau (twice)....America chose Trump.

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2 minutes ago, Argus said:

And screw what the environmentalists want or say or do or think.

I'm not against pipelines because I agree it's not posdible to abruptly change to a completely green economy.  But an alternative energy source has to be a priority, either voluntarily or forced on us by circumstance - kind of like we're now forced to face the lack of preparedness for a pandemic.  Eventually the "not caring" about the environment will lead to much worse economic effects.  Those effects are actually starting now.

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

We have to look to our own security, and our own supply chains,

Agree with that.  It may be true that globalization has provided a higher standard of living (overall) for many countries, but we have to retain the ability to manage crises.  Globalization of extras, not necessities should be the goal, imo. 

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

The US is heading for totalitarianism, too. Trump just fired an inspector general for not disobeying the law to protect him. I have a feeling that if he gets re-elected all senior officials will be required to take an oath of loyalty to him, not the constitution.

I agree that's the way things are heading over there.  

 

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1 minute ago, dialamah said:

I'm not against pipelines because I agree it's not posdible to abruptly change to a completely green economy.  But an alternative energy source has to be a priority, either voluntarily or forced on us by circumstance -

The world demand for oil will continue for decades. I'm all for a more sustainable energy source, and as soon as one is developed which is economically competitive with oil I'm all for switching over. But that is not presently the case. And we need to develop and export resources and get people back to work. This bullshit about taxing industry for their fuel use only serves to drive them offshore. How does it help the environment if a manufacturer relocates to China? It doesn't. It just costs us jobs. Ontario hasn't had a new auto plant in a decade because the Ontario and federal Liberal governments make it too expensive. All the new manufacturing facilities Magna and others have constructed have been in the US or Mexico, where energy is cheap and they face no carbon taxes.

 

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26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It's not about you or me....no prizes will be awarded either way.

Canada chose Trudeau (twice)....America chose Trump.

America 1, Canada -2. You guys are up by 3 terms of good leadership. 

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49 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

America 1, Canada -2. You guys are up by 3 terms of good leadership. 

My relative would agree with you - Trump is the bees knees.  Do you also expect Galactic Beings to come save us, for the internet to be shut down, and for Trump to make an announcement that will make everybody very happy, and make life so much better - we'll have everything we need or want, won't have to go to work any more and money will become a thing of the past!   Just how far does your delusion go?

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2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

America 1, Canada -2. You guys are up by 3 terms of good leadership. 

Good leadership? From whom? Was it the good leadership from January and February when Trump ignored repeated warnings from his security agencies and from his health secretary? Was that the kind of leadership you speak of? Was it telling people the virus was nothing to worry about and the cases would be done to one and then gone in no time? How about putting his idiot son-in-law in charge of fixing things? Or maybe not bothering to order any new equipment until March? Maybe that's what you mean by good leadership? Is it refusing to order a national shut-down, and refusing to provide any central purchasing authority for medical gear, thus leaving the 50 states to compete with each other, and the federal government, to bid and outbid and undercut each other to try and grab scarce resources? Is that the leadership you admire? Please do give me examples of this wondrous leadership of which you speak.

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

My relative would agree with you - Trump is the bees knees.  Do you also expect Galactic Beings to come save us, for the internet to be shut down, and for Trump to make an announcement that will make everybody very happy, and make life so much better - we'll have everything we need or want, won't have to go to work any more and money will become a thing of the past!   Just how far does your delusion go?

The prime directive prevents interference from us. I can only observe you from a distance. May I give you a hint though. Stop eating bats.

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22 hours ago, Rue said:

Genius it is spelled Marcus not Marxist.  Good idea for you to contain yourself. 

WTH are you talking about?  Marcus or Marxist? 

What would be a lot better would be for you to try to contain that NDS problem that you are going thru.  :P

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On 4/4/2020 at 4:39 PM, Army Guy said:

I think the solution may come from the consumers themselves, forcing their governments to take some sort of punitive action against China, Australia's government is looking hard at doing just that, it so happened that some major Companies in Australia owned by the Chinese government instructed their Chinese employees to buy up massive amounts of masks ,gowns, other medical supplies to the tune of 1000 tones and flew it to China....It's got them in a little tizzy… anyway now they are changing the laws in regarding how much a foreign country can invest or purchase Businesses and resources  to zero, still in their parliamentary process.

During a news exposé they clearly showed their dairy industry , meaning farms, distribution, advertising, where almost 90 % Chinese owned and operated....along with many , many more business within their country.  they have been talks about seizing all these assets. This may be the wake up call everyone has been waiting for...China has been buying up everything in sight, from business and resources and western nations have allowed this to go unchecked for dozens of years...take a look at the oil sands and how much Chinese funding is involved.  They seem to have unlimited amount of funds, and nothing makes a western bend over faster , than suit cases full of money...until one day we wake up and find the Chinese flag hanging over Ottawa....man that would be a liberals' wet dream , OK maybe not every liberals dream, but certainly Justins. think French is hard to learn....try Mandarin. 

Anyways I think we can all agree a lot of things are going to change, once we come out of this nightmare, maybe it will take a wage review, along with a product pricing review, maybe it is time to tax the shit out of everything imported from China....Not that I'm a big trump fan but in NAFTA ,Mexico labor for veh manufactures was force to increase what they payed their workers.. maybe the same can happen in china...take some of their advantage away.... or maybe our entire market gets a reset, and government nationalize critical manufacture needs such as medical equipment, medicines, etc .  then tax the crap out of everything.... 

 

It is the lack of balance. The West, for the most part, allows foreign entities to purchase land and businesses and operate under very similar laws to the local companies and population. But when you look at most countries in Asia, including China, they rarely allow foreign ownership. It's an imbalance of power that should be confronted.

I remember when China and the U.S. negotiated for Chinese credit card companies to operate in the U.S. and in turn, U.S. credit companies would be allowed to operate in China. China is operating in U.S. and Canada, the American card companies are not operating in China.

Not that I'm a fan of credit card companies, but that's just an example of the type of relationship China has with the West. Protectionism may be the only way to battle the take over of assets belonging to our 1%.

I guess we prefer that the assets remain with our 1%, instead of their 1%.

.

.

.

We need a revolution. 

We need to own ourselves and our data. We should be able to deal with anyone we want, for however much we believe it is worth and do transactions however way we want.

Blockchain is our revolution.

 

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Blockchain will allow us to have a revolution against the 1% while protecting it at the same time?

This sounds like saying we can stop changing the climate while we're changing it.

How, and what's the catch?

Edited by eyeball

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On 4/5/2020 at 10:29 AM, dialamah said:

My relative would agree with you - Trump is the bees knees.  Do you also expect Galactic Beings to come save us, for the internet to be shut down, and for Trump to make an announcement that will make everybody very happy, and make life so much better - we'll have everything we need or want, won't have to go to work any more and money will become a thing of the past!   Just how far does your delusion go?

Galactic beings? Delusions? That's just an idiotic and childish post lol. 

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:15 PM, Argus said:

Good leadership? From whom? Was it the good leadership from January and February when Trump ignored repeated warnings from his security agencies and from his health secretary?

The Jan-Feb time period? He had already banned Chinese travellers by Feb dude. Trudeau and his minions hadn't done anything yet aside from say that travel bans don't work and masks don't work at that point.

You lose - bigtime.

Quote

Was that the kind of leadership you speak of? Was it telling people the virus was nothing to worry about and the cases would be done to one and then gone in no time? How about putting his idiot son-in-law in charge of fixing things? Or maybe not bothering to order any new equipment until March? Maybe that's what you mean by good leadership? Is it refusing to order a national shut-down, and refusing to provide any central purchasing authority for medical gear, thus leaving the 50 states to compete with each other, and the federal government, to bid and outbid and undercut each other to try and grab scarce resources? Is that the leadership you admire? Please do give me examples of this wondrous leadership of which you speak.

Lol. Such a bunch of crap.

His idiot son-in-law? FYI Pence isn't his son-in-law, he is the VP, and he was the one put in charge of the coronavirus task force. 

Speaking about idiots, our Health Minister and Chief Public Health Officer both spent time talking about how banning international travel was bad, and saying it was racist, and saying that masks don't work, etc. So they were doing a combination of 1) sitting on their asses doing nothing and 2) lying/saying stupid things which got our country further into trouble. You can't top that level of uselessness and idiocy. 

You're grasping at straws to find fault with Trump, meanwhile the basic approach, actions and comments of the three stooges, in your own country's government, was all completely & thoroughly wrong with the benefit of hindsight. 

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51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Jan-Feb time period? He had already banned Chinese travellers by Feb dude.

Yeah, Trump is always ready to ban foreigners from entering the US.

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Trudeau and his minions hadn't done anything yet aside from say that travel bans don't work and masks don't work at that point.

According to the medical professionals everywhere, travel bans are far less effective than tight monitoring of everyone. The US did the travel ban early in February, then took the rest of the month off. Even Peter Navarro was telling everyone who would listen, back in January, that the US could suffer 2 million deaths and Trump continued to downplay it all as something that wouldn't be a big deal and would be over in April.

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You lose - bigtime.

I lose? You cult members and the way you attach your sense of self and pride to the big, orange blob are really pathetic. Honestly, why are you still here? Why don't you crawl across the border, make your way to Washington, jump the fence around the White House begging to see your great leader, just to lick his feet?

 

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Yeah, Trump is always ready to ban foreigners from entering the US.

Only an idiot would allow people to waltz directly into the country from places that are experiencing a pandemic. 

If you don't understand that, that's fine, but you might wanna just keep quiet on this one and let people guess...

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According to the medical professionals everywhere, travel bans are far less effective than tight monitoring of everyone.

So weird, because our international flights were all closed for 9 days while we still had no restrictions on domestic flights. From the 20th to the 28th you could fly no matter what, now sick people are banned. Maybe you're just wrong again Argus: https://globalnews.ca/news/6745733/trudeau-coronavirus-update-march-28/

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The US did the travel ban early in February, then took the rest of the month off. Even Peter Navarro was telling everyone who would listen, back in January, that the US could suffer 2 million deaths and Trump continued to downplay it all as something that wouldn't be a big deal and would be over in April.

It's easy to point the finger at one person who was saying the right things earlier in the game, but get things into perspective Argus. At that point, Trump had still done far more than our village idiot, and our village idiot wasn't taking that type of advice either at the time. The Dems had a debate on Feb 19th and didn't even talk about covid. At a later date, Bernie Sanders said flat out that he wouldn't shut down flights from China and that was long AFTER Trump had already done it. 

Quote

I lose? You cult members and the way you attach your sense of self and pride to the big, orange blob are really pathetic. Honestly, why are you still here? Why don't you crawl across the border, make your way to Washington, jump the fence around the White House begging to see your great leader, just to lick his feet?

Yes, you do lose. Go back and read what I posted again. I'll break it down for ya:

Quote

The Jan-Feb time period? He had already banned Chinese travellers by Feb dude. Trudeau and his minions hadn't done anything yet aside from say that travel bans don't work and masks don't work at that point.

You lose - bigtime.

That means that - during the time period that you yourself chose - Trump was ahead of the curve on at least one topic while Trudeau and his gaggle of dolts were behind on every single topic re: covid, they were actually doing nothing at all, they were calling the travel ban bad & racist when it was actually the right thing to do, they were completely wrong about some of the most fundamental covid precautions, and they were lying. 

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