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On 3/29/2020 at 11:15 PM, Tdot said:

More proof of the anti-United way of politics in the States, which prefaced the COVID 19 disunity we see now, was at their SOTU Address  Trump gave.  It was televised in many nations that day, so potentially billions of people got to see the disrespect/disunity which one party has, for the other.

Tdot, disagree.

My point is that this virus is like a war. But to fight this war, it requires collective effort. (After the 1930s, in 1941, Americans worked collectively.) 

America is not a country based on collective effort.

====

The writers of the US Constitution wrote a remarkable document. But in the 1700s, they could not understand the importance of an independent Central Bank.

True, they included the possibility of amendments. But such an amendment is impossible now.

 

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18 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Tdot, disagree.

My point is that this virus is like a war. But to fight this war, it requires collective effort. (After the 1930s, in 1941, Americans worked collectively.) 

America is not a country based on collective effort.

====

The writers of the US Constitution wrote a remarkable document. But in the 1700s, they could not understand the importance of an independent Central Bank.

True, they included the possibility of amendments. But such an amendment is impossible now.

 

I think it's important to realize that we could have predicted this non-unity, is the point I'm making. Everything we have seen since Jan 2017, surely verifies the impossibility of a collective effort in the face of once in a lifetime crisis/pandemic.

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Wow, reading through this thread, I must have had a few Scotches before posting!

No harm meant to anyone.

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Although I do believe it was the writers' own experiences in England, before The Mayflower ever launched, which was used to decide against a central bank.

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23 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Wow, reading through this thread, I must have had a few Scotches before posting!

No harm meant to anyone.

lol 

 

I didn't want to derail this topic so I asked about a different element re the idea of the state's being "United" which requires the ultimate cost for those who choose disunity: 

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IMHO, the great force of America is that it is not a single country. In fact, it is many states organised together.

These independent states will defend America against this virus. 

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12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

True, but for different reasons.

Americans already went through this drill with Hurricane Katrina, exposing the weaknesses and politics of local vs. state vs. federal responsibility and control.  

....

B-C, you know as well as I do that Katrina was a Dem take down of Bush Jnr.

This calamity is different.

======

When Americans get through this, they may thank their individual state/county officials.

The federal government? President? 

 

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Just now, August1991 said:

B-C, you know as well as I do that Katrina was a Dem take down of Bush Jnr.

This calamity is different.

 

 

Not so different....just in scale.   The same governance elements are in place.   Even Canadians know how FEMA, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, National Guard, etc., work from watching so much American media then...and now.   

 

Quote

When Americans get through this, they may thank their individual state/county officials.

The federal government? President? 

 

Maybe, and I have already stated as much.   Many (not all) local and state officials have deferred readiness and actions hoping that the feds would rescue them in a crisis.    There is no shortage of abandoned pandemic readiness projects because of budget cuts and other spending priorities long before the current president and COVID-19.

As an example, NYC's Mayor Bill de Blasio wanted to shut the entire city down (quarantine) weeks ago but Gov. Cuomo said only he had the power to do so and refused.    So now the city struggles with a taller "peak" in the curve.   

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10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not so different....just in scale.  

B_C, I reckon that you are in denial.

Let's see what happens elsewhere in America  - unless states shutdown contact.

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1 minute ago, August1991 said:

B_C, I reckon that you are in denial.

Let's see what happens elsewhere in America  - unless states shutdown contact.

 

Sorry, but I actually live in the country and you don't.

Keep watching America from a distance, just as you have always done.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but I actually live in the country and you don't.

Keep watching America from a distance, just as you have always done.

Three days ago:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2020/03/28/23-states-shut-down-and-counting-state-by-state-travel-restrictions/#28beaa6758f4

What I admire (irony) about this link is that Forbes' lists restrictions by State!

B_C, you (and Forbes) don't appreciate your great strength!

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2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

What I admire (irony) about this link is that Forbes' lists restrictions by State!

B_C, you (and Forbes) don't appreciate your great strength!

 

We don't have to, remember ?     Long ago you posted that America has nobody to run to.

...and don't kid yourself...the usual provincial barriers are intensifying in Canada too.

Que Sera, Sera.

 

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14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

We don't have to, remember ?     Long ago you posted that America has nobody to run to.

...and don't kid yourself...the usual provincial barriers are intensifying in Canada too.

Que Sera, Sera.

 

It is not barriers.

I am simply describing the nature of your Constitution. Sovereign states.

We copied you.

=====

Good point though. If you screw up, you guys have no one to ask for help.

Catholics can ask for the Pope; English Canadians can ask for the Crown. But what do you Americans do?

Edited by August1991

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2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

It is not barriers.

I am simply describing the nature of your Constitution. Sovereign states.

We copied you.

 

Oh yes it is....the barriers existed long before COVID-19.    The greatest example is Quebec province as a "nation" within a nation.

America fought a war over states rights....Canada just has referendums and notwithstanding clauses...big difference.

 

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6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Oh yes it is....the barriers existed long before COVID-19.    The greatest example is Quebec province as a "nation" within a nation.

America fought a war over states rights....Canada just has referendums and notwithstanding clauses...big difference.

 

b_c,

Indeed, this is my point.

Around America,/Canada we are seeing governments/States drawing lines/borders.

 

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2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Indeed, this is my point.

Around America,/Canada we are seeing governments/States drawing lines/borders.

 

 

This was true even before COVID-19.

"Good Fences Make Good Neighbors"

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3 hours ago, August1991 said:

We did it in 2008 when Quebecers chose Harper (an anglophone)  when offered a a francophone alternative.

Quebec never choose Harper, what are you talking about?

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On 4/1/2020 at 2:52 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

This was true even before COVID-19.

"Good Fences Make Good Neighbors"

Precisely. And this is the secret of the US Constitution.

To foreigners, you are all "Americans".

But to yourselves, you live in counties, with Sheriffs. Heck, you live in States.

====

b_c, you know all this about your federal state. Foreigners don't.

Heck, as a Canadian I barely understand how you guys vote.

=====

You guys have created a wonderful place of civilized, independent states where the individual is protected. I have always favoured the 10th amendment. 

 

Edited by August1991

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5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

b_c, you know all this about your federal state. Foreigners don't.

Heck, as a Canadian I barely understand how you guys vote.

 

 

Not sure why it matters either way.....many Americans don't even bother to vote anyway.   

"Foreigners" watch America because they want to...not because they have to.

Each state has protocol to follow to fill offices, as does the federal government.

Elections are like proctologist exams, necessary but not too often.

 

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6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not sure why it matters either way.....

...

 

It matters because this virus may require collective effort to control/mitigate.

Small societies/states (eg. Iceland) may fair/manage better than large societies/states (eg. Han China).

 

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2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

It matters because this virus may require collective effort to control/mitigate.

Small societies/states (eg. Iceland) may fair/manage better than large societies/states (eg. Han China).

 

 

Still doesn't matter....the virus is only one issue.  Bury the dead and move on.

What happened to all the fretting over "climate change" ?

The body politic in most nations will still respond more to local issues and partisan dynamics.

 

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9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Still doesn't matter....the virus is only one issue.  Bury the dead and move on.

What happened to all the fretting over "climate change" ?

The body politic in most nations will still respond more to local issues and partisan dynamics.

 

"Bury the dead and move on." WTF?

Stalin: One death is a tragedy, 1000 deaths is a statistic.

==

Climate change? It still exists.

And why should my older uncle needlessly die? Why should my friend who suffers from asthma die?

 

Edited by August1991

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1 minute ago, August1991 said:

"Bury the dead and move on."

Stalin: One death is a tragedy, one thousand deaths is a statistic.

 

 

Precisely !

If it makes you feel any better, COVID-19 pandemic deaths and mitigation measures have displaced some regular old influenza sickness and deaths that would have otherwise occurred.  

Try to look at the bright side !

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On March 31, 2020 at 11:52 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

This was true even before COVID-19.

"Good Fences Make Good Neighbors"

 

You say it was true before COVID 19, eh?  Which states?? And, in what capacities?

I ask, because I don't ever recall states doing what we see being done over the past two weeks.  For examples, NJ GOVT seeking to ban people/prevent people fleeing to NJ from NY. And Governors of states a little further away, have been ordering the roads monitored for NY license plates ---to check if they are people who just arrived from NY and therefore need to be quarantined.

Edited by Tdot

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