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Why Can'T They Give A Straight LOGICAL Answer?

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59 minutes ago, betsy said:

Pushing the security of maintaining 6 feet of distancing (and washing of hands) as the ONLY means of stopping the rapid spread of this virus, is giving a false sense of security!

What you guys are missing - or, wilfully dismissing - is the fact that no one here is advocating wearing a mask IN LIEU of distancing/washing of hands!  I'm saying:  Wearing a mask provides an ADDED protection!

Betsy are you advocating that the wearing of masks be made mandatory by law and enforced? Yes or no?

 

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Even Tam changed her tune:

 

Some grocery stores do not enforce the safe distancing inside the store!  Bulk Barn really takes it a step farther -  but that's to protect their inventory and their staff.   That's okay.

Speaking of store clerks - they are at the front-line too.  The clerks on the floor stocking shelves or cleaning spills - they are out there with the public!  They should be protected from the public.

Yes she said sensible in certain situations.  In our grocery store they are enforcing distancing if they're not in your's say something or wear a mask if it makes you feel better but why assume everyone on the planet is as insensible as the people where you live and is an excuse to impose your solution on everyone? Assuming that's what you're doing.

 

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You guys better understand what is being said.  I think some of you are merely giving knee-jerk responses without giving any thought at all at what is being said!

  And you folks wonder why I have to resort to super large and colored fonts? :lol:

Why do people need to resort to telling the public they can catch this virus simply from people breathing in their advocacy for masks?

 

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The attempt to shame came from those folks who felt that people advocating for masks ought to be shamed!   Go ahead - review the discussion!   What I did was merely show that they are arguing from ignorance!

You think people who are telling the public they can catch this virus from breathing people are arguing from an intelligent scientifically informed position?  Where's the science.  What's likelier is that Tam is simply saying its okay to wear a mask if it makes you feel better. She certainly didn't say you must wear one and neither is anyone else.  So far but....dumbing things down to the lowest common dummy seems to be whats in store.

Who would have thought conservatives would be such advocates of a nanny state and why does that nanny resemble Nurse Ratched?  Must be the cuckoo times we live in.

image.jpeg.949135bb07c1c19aa4892498e008c039.jpeg  

Edited by eyeball
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1 hour ago, betsy said:

Kidding aside, maybe you should make arrangements with his vet?  Surely they'd know how to get to him?

Thanks Betsy, but he's 10 years old and nobody but me and my partner are allowed to touch him; vet doesn't even recommend bringing him in unless it's a serious emergency because he's so terrified, not vicious, just paralyzed with terror.  I spent considerable money and lots of time trying to get past this, but he's pretty determined that nobody but us can be trusted with his precious self.  Even people he knows well and likes, he'll greet them warmly, from a 4 foot distance and shy away if they even stretch a hand with treats toward him.   He was ready for Covid-19 the day he was born.   Maybe if my partner and I weren't around at all for a week or two, he'd start to reconsider.

Dog catchers have ways to catch strays that might work, I know, but that breaks my heart too.

Thanks for the video, made me smile. 

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On 4/6/2020 at 9:22 AM, dialamah said:

If you wanna wear a mask, wear a mask.  Why do you need Tam to 'validate' it?  Extra precautions can't hurt.  Although, please don't take the ones needed by healthcare workers.

Betcha if it was Scheer's health minister saying the same thing, you'd feel entirely differently.

Everyone in the world has been fed bull. The WHO started off saying that the disease didn't spread person-person after there were already tens of thousands of people who got it from other people. Then they said that stopping international flights wasn't necessary. Then they said that masks don't do anything. They were wrong about everything. Their bogus info made the rounds for months. 

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11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Everyone in the world has been fed bull. The WHO started off saying that the disease didn't spread person-person after there were already tens of thousands of people who got it from other people. Then they said that stopping international flights wasn't necessary. Then they said that masks don't do anything. They were wrong about everything. Their bogus info made the rounds for months. 

Funny how you believe Trump's daily changing bullchit, but think you're so clever calling out people who changed info as they learned more.   

Trump doesn't even have the excuse of new information to explain why he contradicts himself almost daily.  He doesn't learn and many of his "pronouncements" are fuelled by petty disagreements or who last praised him.  Funny how you ignore all of that.

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On 4/7/2020 at 2:18 PM, betsy said:

A lot of ignorant responses here coming from people who just want to argue for the sake of arguing! Even when their responses are so juvenile!

:rolleyes:

Vaccines could be at least a year away - in the meantime, doctors and leaders are telling us to do our best to.......

......................help stop the virus from spreading FAST!

 

 

Yoohooo, get that head of yours from under the sand. 

 

ostrich-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

You're afraid - that's understandable.  Fear can make someone irrational.  You've got to face your fear!

BUT, just because you want to convince yourself that this virus is no big deal, doesn't mean it isn't!

Lol, you don't watch enough disaster movies, don't you?   It's people with that mentality that are usually the first ones to go! :lol:

The sooner you wrap your head around that, the better chance we'll have and safer we'll all be.

 

 

Canada’s top doctor says wearing non-medical masks ‘sensible’ in certain situations

Lol, now, people like  Rue goes against Tam! :lol:  I wonder how he'll try to put a spin on that.  office-chair-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

 

 

 

Why would I? I have never argued against  what Tam has said you have.  I actually have defended what she  said.

Edited by Rue

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58 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Funny how you believe Trump's daily changing bullchit, but think you're so clever calling out people who changed info as they learned more.   

Trump doesn't even have the excuse of new information to explain why he contradicts himself almost daily.  He doesn't learn and many of his "pronouncements" are fuelled by petty disagreements or who last praised him.  Funny how you ignore all of that.

What are you prattling on about?

I didn't say that Tam got it wrong all on her own. I said that the WHO got everything wrong, but they did it after they had to have known better. If they want to blame China for lying to them, they should say that. Until the do, the buck stops with them.

Regardless of China, there's no excuse for the part that they got wrong about the masks, it is old news. Masks slow the spread of the virus, period. To say that masks do nothing, and that they might cause more problems, is 100% wrong.

How is it possible that Donald Trump knew that banning Chinese travellers was the right thing to do and all the brainpower in the WHO said the exact opposite? 

Get off Trump's case dialamah, it's just pathetic. He's the least to blame between Trudeau, Tedros, Tam, Trump and Hejdu and yet you act like he's the sole architect of the global crisis. 

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On 4/7/2020 at 12:05 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but the "science" says otherwise.    There is a difference between droplets and aerosols and the time they remain airborne.

You clearly refuse to understand the obvious.  

 

 

You clearly did not understand what you cut and paste. 

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On 4/6/2020 at 5:39 PM, dialamah said:

My biggest worry is my dog.  If my partner and I ended up in hospital or worse, I don't know what would happen with him because nobody but as can get near him. The other dog wouldn't be a problem, though she'd miss us.

Glad you are staying home and doing what you can to stay safe, sorry if my other post gave a different impression. 

I have three dogs. Rescued all 3. Know what you mean.  All 3 came with trauma issues. The fearful one...you know...is just being like Betsy...you just gotta know lol when to stay back.

Edited by Rue

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11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What are you prattling on about?

I didn't say that Tam got it wrong all on her own. I said that the WHO got everything wrong, but they did it after they had to have known better. If they want to blame China for lying to them, they should say that. Until the do, the buck stops with them.

Regardless of China, there's no excuse for the part that they got wrong about the masks, it is old news. Masks slow the spread of the virus, period. To say that masks do nothing, and that they might cause more problems, is 100% wrong.

How is it possible that Donald Trump knew that banning Chinese travellers was the right thing to do and all the brainpower in the WHO said the exact opposite? 

Get off Trump's case dialamah, it's just pathetic. He's the least to blame between Trudeau, Tedros, Tam, Trump and Hejdu and yet you act like he's the sole architect of the global crisis. 

Get off Dialamah's back. Trump has been in a mental melt down now  for 3  consecutive days. 

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26 minutes ago, Rue said:

Get off Dialamah's back.

MYOB Rue. Dialamah didn't have to respond to Betsy earlier, did she? If she wants to post crap here she gets to deal with obvious responses.

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Trump has been in a mental melt down now  for 3  consecutive days. 

So sayeth the poster boy for TDS. 

Do you ever have an actual criticism, or just endless platitudes? "People behind him are rolling their eyes! I SAW IT!!!" "Blocking flights from covid hotspots is racist!"

LMAO.

Guess what Rue? People are behind Trump because he's not in his basement under his blankie.

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57 minutes ago, Rue said:

Why would I? I have never argued against  what Tam has said you have.  I actually have defended what she  said.

Tam is an idiot.

We could hire a kid in grade 8 to repeat what Tedros says. 

We need people in those types positions who will take the appropriate actions to stop a pandemic from getting out of control here, not someone who will fail to recognize the obvious benefits taken by other world leaders and then call them racist. 

Dude, LEADERSHIP is important. There are huge advantages to having a leader whose thinking is ahead of the curve, not 45 days behind. 

Check this out: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coronavirus-cure-bryant/

On the day that the USA Today announced Kobe's death, another story on the front page said that 5 Americans had Covid. That was Jan 27th. 4 days later Trump banned people who had been to China within 14 days from flying into the US. That's not racism. That's leadership. That's being AHEAD OF THE CURVE. Tam, Trudeau, Tedros all said it was [basically] racist. Now banning international travel is normal. Domestic flights are still a thing though, oddly enough. We can traipse through an airport but we can't go to an outdoor park in this country. Go figger. 

You honestly need to put on some big-boy pants Rue, and think for yourself. You need to look at facts instead of just mindlessly gobbling up CNN bullshit. It's gotten ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Get off Trump's case dialamah, it's just pathetic.

It's not Trump's case I'm on; I'm objecting to the dopes who accept and defend his daily lies and BS while calling down everyone else.

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

He's the least to blame between Trudeau, Tedros, Tam, Trump and Hejdu and yet you act like he's the sole architect of the global crisis. 

Pretty ridiculous statement.  

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

You need to look at facts instead of just mindlessly gobbling up CNN bullshit

Says the guy with his nose yards deep into the poopchute of Fox News.

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

4 days later Trump banned people who had been to China within 14 days from flying into the US. That's not racism. That's leadership

He accidentally did one thing that might have helped, no doubt based on some petty impulse he had that day.  Although given that the US now has the most cases of anywhere in the world, one wonders just how useful that was. 

Of course all the other things that are effective in showing the spread of this virus, that almost every other leader in the world has done - Trump ignored or delayed for weeks.  Now he's undermining the efforts of various states to fight this virus.  That's not leadership, that's stupidity.  

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

People are behind Trump because he's not in his basement under his blankie

Leaders lead by example; JT says "stay home, work from home if you can" ... and that's what he does.   JT respects science, and is offering supports to provinces and Canadians. 

Leadership is not tweeting your latest spat, changing your mind every other day, firing people because they disagree with you.  Leadership is not setting States against each other, playing favorites or spreading misinformation in conflict with your own experts and advisors.

JT has a lot of flaws, and he's done some stupid shit, but he's head and shoulders above the clown you bow down to. 

Edited by dialamah

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Oh, btw - it seems New York's outbreak came via Europe.  So much for the brilliance of limiting travel from China.  Not that I would hold that against Trump if he was a halfway decent leader; I'd just figure he was working off the best info he had,  just like the WHO or Tam or anyone else.

But he's such a shitshow, I assume his decision had little or nothing to do with protection of the US, but was driven by some other, more directly personal motive.

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14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Betsy are you advocating that the wearing of masks be made mandatory by law and enforced? Yes or no?

 

 

IF - and, I say IF - IF the situation looks desperate - yes, I advocate for mandatory wearing of masks in places where the certainty of being able to maintain distancing is questionable, like in public transits, grocery stores, hospitals/emergency rooms/clinics/testing facilities,  and other places where you're likely to see sizeable numbers of people.   As an example, the waiting room at some hospitals are not so large.  LOl, in our hospital - the waiting room is large enough to accommodate  only three people (if we abide by the 6 feet rule)! 

Furthermore, we still hear about people who don't adhere to social distancing!  Face it, some people don't fully get sanitation.  I know of an adult whose kid tends to wipe his nose on his sleeves (because apparently, that's what his dad do)!  EWWWWWW.   There will be some people who'd think nothing of coughing or sneezing (facing away from you), and think that's good enough!

Why would you take the chance?   If masks can provide additional protection - why this stubborn resistance over something that's just practical in this situation?  Some use this to make a statement - that it's an infringement on their right, or they just don't want to be told.  Would they feel the same way if it's Ebola?

 

Which would you prefer?  Mandatory wearing of masks or, strict lock-down in your houses?

 

 

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Yes she said sensible in certain situations.  In our grocery store they are enforcing distancing if they're not in your's say something or wear a mask if it makes you feel better but why assume everyone on the planet is as insensible as the people where you live and is an excuse to impose your solution on everyone? Assuming that's what you're doing.

Not all grocery stores do things the same way.    People in aisles at WalMart can't really practice CONSISTENT safe distancing - I go at opening time on senior's day (which isn't busy).  They do a good job at safe distancing while you're in line at the cash or outside (waiting in line for the door to open).  How do they do things at Costco now, I wonder?  We don't use our membership card now since it's been always crowded.

It's even harder for smaller grocery stores to enforce safe distancing in aisles.  Bulk Barn is the ultimate though for precaution and safe distancing (providing mandatory gloves), and you get one employee to go with you as your personal assistant to get the items you want.  You both maintain 6 feet distancing from each other, and you can't go into aisles where there is another couple getting stuffs.   However - all that precaution will fall apart IF someone happens to sneeze in that small space!

If masks aren't hard to get, I bet Bulk Barn will also provide the mandatory masks to wear.

 

 

 

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You think people who are telling the public they can catch this virus from breathing people are arguing from an intelligent scientifically informed position?

 

Breathing people?   I don't think that statement comes from an informed - let alone intelligent -  position. :lol:  

Please understand what you read.  That's key to a rational discussion.

Edited by betsy

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5 hours ago, dialamah said:

Oh, btw - it seems New York's outbreak came via Europe.  So much for the brilliance of limiting travel from China.  Not that I would hold that against Trump if he was a halfway decent leader; I'd just figure he was working off the best info he had,  just like the WHO or Tam or anyone else.

But he's such a shitshow, I assume his decision had little or nothing to do with protection of the US, but was driven by some other, more directly personal motive.

:rolleyes:

How did the outbreak from Europe start, I wonder?  Who got it worse first - Europe or USA? 

I heard a lot of the initial cases came from people who came back from China!

Gee....I wonder how it eventually got to the USA?   Could it be because of repatriating  American travellers from everywhere?

 

It's a chain reaction!  You should watch the old movie OUTBREAK.  But you bet, the first cases had come from people who came back from China!

 

 

Edited by betsy

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14 hours ago, dialamah said:

Thanks Betsy, but he's 10 years old and nobody but me and my partner are allowed to touch him; vet doesn't even recommend bringing him in unless it's a serious emergency because he's so terrified, not vicious, just paralyzed with terror.  I spent considerable money and lots of time trying to get past this, but he's pretty determined that nobody but us can be trusted with his precious self.  Even people he knows well and likes, he'll greet them warmly, from a 4 foot distance and shy away if they even stretch a hand with treats toward him.   He was ready for Covid-19 the day he was born.   Maybe if my partner and I weren't around at all for a week or two, he'd start to reconsider.

Dog catchers have ways to catch strays that might work, I know, but that breaks my heart too.

Thanks for the video, made me smile. 

 

I understand your concern.  They're our kids! 

We have a cat that's similar to your dog - he had a rough infancy (was rescued by our now-deceased cat when he was only a few weeks old).  He's afraid to go out, and is cuddly friendly only to my husband.  He tolerates me, and comes to me only when he wants food!

Edited by betsy

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10 hours ago, Rue said:

Why would I? I have never argued against  what Tam has said you have.  I actually have defended what she  said.

:rolleyes:

She's changed her tune!  She must know how ridiculously inconsistent she was. :D

 

 

Quote

Canada’s top doctor says wearing non-medical masks ‘sensible’ in certain situations

 

Canada’s chief public health officer, Dr. Theresa Tam, said it’s “sensible” at this stage to wear non-medical masks in cases where practising physical distancing isn’t always possible, such as when riding public transit or shopping for groceries, but it should not be used as a substitute for the public-health measures being taken.

 

https://www.hilltimes.com/2020/04/07/politics-this-morning-412/242436

 

 

So - you agree with her -  that it's sensible to wear masks as an ADDED PRECAUTION?  YES or NO?

 

BTW, I've just come back from the grocery store.  Many people (majority) - even store clerks - are wearing masks!  Mask of all sorts - which also included scarves!

  Hurray!  Now it'll be easier - and FASTER - to flatten that curve!

Edited by betsy

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

It's not Trump's case I'm on; I'm objecting to the dopes who accept and defend his daily lies and BS while calling down everyone else.

Pretty ridiculous statement.  

Says the guy with his nose yards deep into the poopchute of Fox News.

He accidentally did one thing that might have helped, no doubt based on some petty impulse he had that day.  Although given that the US now has the most cases of anywhere in the world, one wonders just how useful that was. 

Of course all the other things that are effective in showing the spread of this virus, that almost every other leader in the world has done - Trump ignored or delayed for weeks.  Now he's undermining the efforts of various states to fight this virus.  That's not leadership, that's stupidity.  

Leaders lead by example; JT says "stay home, work from home if you can" ... and that's what he does.   JT respects science, and is offering supports to provinces and Canadians. 

Leadership is not tweeting your latest spat, changing your mind every other day, firing people because they disagree with you.  Leadership is not setting States against each other, playing favorites or spreading misinformation in conflict with your own experts and advisors.

JT has a lot of flaws, and he's done some stupid shit, but he's head and shoulders above the clown you bow down to. 

Dialamah you're nothing more than a platitude spammer. Can you point to a comment you made there that cites a source or includes a relevant, verifiable fact? Nope. 

Yeah you hate Fox News, but you can't name a thing they've said that was inaccurate because you don't have a clue. You were told it was bad, by the same people who told you to believe Dr Ford, so you never watched it. Case closed, right dialamah? You're like the kids in grade 7 who smoked weed and hated cops, backed by some anecdotal evidence, a bad attitude and a boatload of ignorance. 

Quote

Of course all the other things that are effective in showing the spread of this virus, that almost every other leader in the world has done - Trump ignored or delayed for weeks.  Now he's undermining the efforts of various states to fight this virus.  That's not leadership, that's stupidity.  

This part is especially stupid. What things can you name that Trudeau did before Trump? Or, what one thing dialamah?

This is classic liberalism: "I have an ideal that only my favourite guy lives up to, but I can't say exactly what it is. All you need to know is that I HAVE A WORTHY CAUSE AND I'M MORALLY SUPERIOR TO EVERYONE!!!!!!" 

Quote

 

Leaders lead by example; JT says "stay home, work from home if you can" ... and that's what he does.   JT respects science, and is offering supports to provinces and Canadians. 

Leadership is not tweeting your latest spat, changing your mind every other day, firing people because they disagree with you.  Leadership is not setting States against each other, playing favorites or spreading misinformation in conflict with your own experts and advisors.

 

Leaders don't eave everyone else to do the heavy lifting while they hide. Trudeau won't get tested for the virus because he doesn't want to go out into the real world and answer to reporters that he hasn't paid off. 

Trudeau is THE MOST DIVISIVE "leader" in any democracy on earth. In the last election that Harper won there were only 4 Bloc Quebecois. Now there are 32 of them. There was no talk of western separation in 2014, now it's a serious issue. There has never been a PM of this country so blatantly protective of his local economy and so invested in destroying the economy of other provinces before. 

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JT has a lot of flaws, and he's done some stupid shit, 

And what has he done that wasn't stupid dialamah? And don't forget to answer the part about what Trudeau did re: covid b4 Trump. I can't wait to hear it.

Cat got your tongue? 

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Leaders lead by example; JT says "stay home, work from home if you can" ... and that's what he does.   JT respects science, and is offering supports to provinces and Canadians. 

 

Lol. 

You should review your idea of "leadership."

Leaders are SENSIBLE!  They're not mindless sheep!  When asked if he'll recommend wearing masks - he said he'll listen to Tam!  Hahahaha - can't he see for himself how illogical it is with Tam?  

 

Tam had stuck her neck way out there resisting to advise people to wear mask - that she's had a hard a tough time backpedalling!

Well - she's forced to backpedal now because her narrative sounds so inconsistent and ridiculous - she's losing her credibiity!  Since Trudeau blindly follows her - Trudeau is on that same boat!

 

Edited by betsy

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Oh, btw - it seems New York's outbreak came via Europe.  So much for the brilliance of limiting travel from China.  Not that I would hold that against Trump if he was a halfway decent leader; I'd just figure he was working off the best info he had,  just like the WHO or Tam or anyone else.

But he's such a shitshow, I assume his decision had little or nothing to do with protection of the US, but was driven by some other, more directly personal motive.

90% idiocy, 20% garbage. I'll give you credit though, you managed to give Ryan Smyth's mystical 110% though.

You posted a link back to MLW as a cite to back a wildly ridiculous accusation that's made in the form of a declarative statement, and then you threw some moronic partisan vitriol behind it. I don't doubt that this works on any kids who are unfortunate enough to be in your care, but this is a place for adult-level thought and discussion so your post is woefully inadequate.

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7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

90% idiocy, 20% garbage. I'll give you credit though, you managed to give Ryan Smyth's mystical 110% though.

You posted a link back to MLW as a cite to back a wildly ridiculous accusation that's made in the form of a declarative statement, and then you threw some moronic partisan vitriol behind it. I don't doubt that this works on any kids who are unfortunate enough to be in your care, but this is a place for adult-level thought and discussion so your post is woefully inadequate.

Oh, I made a mistake!  Cue insults from WCM!  Speaking of "adult", normal, well-adjusted, reasonable adults don't insult other people for mistakes.  They just point it out and expect a correction.

Here is the correct link:  New York coronavirus came from Europe .

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12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

On the day that the USA Today announced Kobe's death, another story on the front page said that 5 Americans had Covid. That was Jan 27th. 4 days later Trump banned people who had been to China within 14 days from flying into the US. That's not racism. That's leadership. That's being AHEAD OF THE CURVE. Tam, Trudeau, Tedros all said it was [basically] racist. Now banning international travel is normal. Domestic flights are still a thing though, oddly enough. We can traipse through an airport but we can't go to an outdoor park in this country. Go figger. 

You honestly need to put on some big-boy pants Rue, and think for yourself. You need to look at facts instead of just mindlessly gobbling up CNN bullshit. It's gotten ridiculous.

Yet the USA is now the world's epicentre of the virus, with hundreds dying a day, and countries like Canada have faired relatively well. 

Edited by Boges

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Trump fans just pass the buck on who to blame. China or the European countries who let the Chinese in or WHO. 

American can't blame themselves for not taking the virus seriously once it actually started showing up in the US. See Trump's repeated attempts to downplay the virus in late February, Early March. 

Edited by Boges
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20 minutes ago, betsy said:

Tam had stuck her neck way out there resisting to advise people to wear mask - that she's had a hard a tough time backpedalling!

Well - she's forced to backpedal now because her narrative sounds so inconsistent and ridiculous - she's losing her credibiity!  Since Trudeau blindly follows her - Trudeau is on that same boat!

Who cares, really?  I don't; it's just a mask, wear one if you want.  

You're a supporter of Trump, if I recall correctly.  Funny how his constant message changes don't affect his "credibility".  

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13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

MYOB Rue. Dialamah didn't have to respond to Betsy earlier, did she? If she wants to post crap here she gets to deal with obvious responses.

So sayeth the poster boy for TDS. 

Do you ever have an actual criticism, or just endless platitudes? "People behind him are rolling their eyes! I SAW IT!!!" "Blocking flights from covid hotspots is racist!"

LMAO.

Guess what Rue? People are behind Trump because he's not in his basement under his blankie.

Endless platitudes..it's my gift for humanity...as for your endless love for Trump it's funny especially when you try fart like him....oops there I go again being a platypus.

Edited by Rue

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