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Equality is not about specific legal codes. It's about a state of mind.

Creating a society where people are equal requires a change in attitudes.

What can Canadians offer in support of equality, aside from money?

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Great theme!

If anyone can go over to the Jane & Finch area or the Scarborough area, of Toronto, you will find proof IMHO that Canada has no plans to offer any thing supporting equality whatsoever ---to certain citizens, for sure!

Edited by Tdot

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We can offer to help people become successful . We can give people equality of opportunity but we cannot guarantee there will be an equal outcome.   To achieve  an equal outcome could  sometimes mean removing children from their home/environment and placing them in a different/better environment/home. 

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

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4 hours ago, Marocc said:

Equality is not about specific legal codes. It's about a state of mind.

Creating a society where people are equal requires a change in attitudes.

What can Canadians offer in support of equality, aside from money?

Equality is about legal codes.  Giving everyone the same rights means every Canadian can succeed if they make the right decisions.  It's not up to Canadians or government to make sure you make the right choices, it's up to the individual.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Equality is about legal codes. 

But, I'm confused because then you say:

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Giving everyone the same rights means every Canadian can succeed if they make the right decisions.  It's not up to Canadians or government to make sure you make the right choices, it's up to the individual.

Which sounds almost like you agree, it's about each individual's state of mind.

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1 hour ago, scribblet said:

but we cannot guarantee there will be an equal outcome.  

Equality doesn't require that. Equity would. So no, that doesn't get you away from responsibility.

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18 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Equality doesn't require that. Equity would. So no, that doesn't get you away from responsibility.

She has no responsibility.  Neither do I.  Neither does anyone, unless they decide to voluntarily take it on, or are paid to do so. 

So, what do you do?

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12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

She has no responsibility.  Neither do I.  Neither does anyone, unless they decide to voluntarily take it on, or are paid to do so. 

So, what do you do?

Was that too much? The main line of the conversation still leans onto the definitions of the words equality and equity.

She implied she is not willing to take responsibility. You insist none belongs to her. If only we had some way of measuring who's right without using the Quran.

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1 minute ago, Marocc said:

Was that too much? The main line of the conversation still leans onto the definitions of the words equality and equity.

She implied she is not willing to take responsibility. You insist none belongs to her. If only we had some way of measuring who's right without using the Quran.

You don't, I do.  Never the twain shall meet, I guess.

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5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You don't, I do.  Never the twain shall meet, I guess.

A way of measuring? What is it?

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7 minutes ago, Marocc said:

A way of measuring? What is it?

Given you defer to a book written by someone else, you probably won't understand the idea of basing one's views on a lifetime of experiences.

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59 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Equality doesn't require that. Equity would. So no, that doesn't get you away from responsibility.

What responsibility,  as long as we ensure that people are given equal opportunity,  it's their responsibility to make use of it, and make the right choices.

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55 minutes ago, scribblet said:

What responsibility

To strive for equality for all people.

55 minutes ago, scribblet said:

as long as we ensure that people are given equal opportunity

Do you ensure that? This isn't just about opportunities.

55 minutes ago, scribblet said:

it's their responsibility to make use of it, and make the right choices.

So they have the responsibility to make the right choices. Then you must place that same responsibility on yourself, right?

Is it then that you are of the opinion, the Canadians have nothing else to offer in support of equality for all people except money?

Edited by Marocc

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I said no such thing  and I never mentioned money, you really need to stop imputing words and actions.    I have no responsibility other than not to break the law or stop anyone from having equal opportunity,  and to teach my kids the same thing, that, we are all entitled  to the same opportunities, 

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31 minutes ago, Marocc said:

To strive for equality for all people.

It depends what kind of equality you want.  Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?

In Canada people have the freedom to do and be whatever they want, as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's rights.

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8 hours ago, Marocc said:

Equality is not about specific legal codes. It's about a state of mind.

Creating a society where people are equal requires a change in attitudes.

What can Canadians offer in support of equality, aside from money?

There is a saying that has its origins in one of the English statesmen who was a critic of the ..new at the time - industrial revolution that was sweeping England....paraphrasing "our nation''s anti-vagrancy laws apply equally to all, so neither the rich man nor the beggar are allowed to sleep underneath bridges." It was a sarcastic attempt to demonstrate how disparities in wealth and social class make application of many laws unequal. 

At a time now when we're all being told to "shelter in place," a lot of Hollywood clowns have been shocked by the anger and vitriol coming their way on social media for their public service messages showing them 'sheltering' in their large, luxurious mansions. Imagine someone living in a tiny one bedroom apartment, or shared accommodations....especially if they have young children watching empty-headed Hollywood stars like Gal Gadot thinking they understand the plight the covid pandemic presents to common people today.

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It depends what kind of equality you want.  Equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?

In Canada people have the freedom to do and be whatever they want, as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's rights.

Equality of opportunity is a bogus scam in economies that are increasingly captured by the biggest fish who write the rules and buy the politicians! What a surprise that generations of trust fund babies are the ones who succeed the most and must be the hardest workers....since they're accumulating the most wealth!

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4 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Equality of opportunity is a bogus scam in economies that are increasingly captured by the biggest fish who write the rules and buy the politicians! What a surprise that generations of trust fund babies are the ones who succeed the most and must be the hardest workers....since they're accumulating the most wealth!

There's nothing wrong with giving your children the wealth you earned throughout your life.  Who do you think should get it?  Government?  Strangers like you & I who didn't earn it?  If their parents did well and worked hard to give their children opportunities, what's wrong with that?

If your parents suck, don't make much money, and don't instill good study or work habits in their kids and don't spend time helping them with homework it's not society's fault.  One of the huge determinants in your socioeconomic success is your parental upbringing.  If you or your parents make poor choices, it's not society's fault.

I have a friend whose parents were refugees to Canada, they can't speak English, they live in a poor area of town and don't have much money.  But they forced their child to read books instead of watch TV, and made their child bus across the city to the best school they could get them in, and made their child study hard.  Their child got into the best university in Canada, then did their masters in a degree that would get them a good job.  They'll be in some debt because of those degrees, but that was their calculated choice, they sacrificed for their child.  Now their child makes 6 figures.  That's equality.

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14 hours ago, Marocc said:

Equality is not about specific legal codes. It's about a state of mind.

Creating a society where people are equal requires a change in attitudes.

What can Canadians offer in support of equality, aside from money?

Why is equality such an important goal in itself?

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3 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Why is equality such an important goal in itself?

It is a value.

Your question demonstrates the issue with western societies in general. Because society being value-free has become the main value for them, they cannot — and do not truly desire to — create equality in their societies.

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12 hours ago, scribblet said:

I said no such thing 

Which one exactly?

You. Sure did say:

16 hours ago, scribblet said:

We can offer to help people become successful .

Maybe you meant you can offer to help people become successful in meditation and self discipline? It had. Nothing to do with career and educational opportunities or money?

You also said:

13 hours ago, scribblet said:

it's their responsibility to make use of it, and make the right choices.

I find it hard to believe that even someone as hypocritical as you would after this say that you don't have the aforementioned responsibilities. Yet, you forgot to add them to your list of responsibilities.

12 hours ago, scribblet said:

teach my kids the same thing, that, we are all entitled  to the same opportunities, 

How do you teach that to them? Do you tell them perhaps that it's okay to be racist and it's okay to discriminate and it's okay to backbite and slander if it pleases you, just as long as you recognize that the Canadian law is there to make sure everyone has the same (vague) opportunities?

Which it is unable to do..

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7 hours ago, Marocc said:

I find it hard to believe that even someone as hypocritical as you would after this say that you don't have the aforementioned responsibilities. Yet, you forgot to add them to your list of responsibilities.

 .

I never mentioned money, so don't fabricate things.   As for this, you are not making sense, only in your mind have I been hypocritical but you are free to believe whatever makes you happy.

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18 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Equality of opportunity is a bogus scam in economies that are increasingly captured by the biggest fish who write the rules and buy the politicians!

There is no other kind of equality which can be achieved in a functional society. Equality of opportunity allows for people to rise on their own skill, effort and merit. The other sort of 'equality' is the equality of results, which allow the incompetent, the lazy, and the stupid to rise to levels beyond their capabilities, to rise above those with more ability, drive and skills. No society can sustain that in any great amounts for any great length of time.

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20 hours ago, Marocc said:

To strive for equality for all people.

But all people are not equal in any way, shape or form. Some are more artistically gifted than others. Some are smarter than others. Some have a lot more drive than others. Some have a sense of personal responsibility and others do not. Some are criminally minded and others are honest. Some are highly educated, while others are not. Some are skilled at a much sought-after ability, while others have no skills which are in demand. Some are beautiful and some are ugly. Some are tall and some are short. Some are healthy and some are disabled.

Unless you're God you can't make them equal.

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10 hours ago, Marocc said:

 

Your question demonstrates the issue with western societies in general. Because society being value-free has become the main value for them, they cannot — and do not truly desire to — create equality in their societies.

Ah, there it is.  I was wondering what this thread was really about.  It's not about "equality" at all.  It's a condemnation of Western values.

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