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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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You stay the fuck home.  It's easier that way.

I refuse to wear a mask until I'm told I have to.  I find I'm more careful about what I touch and if I touch my face, in public if I don't have that perceived protection. 

Last week Ford said he'd need to see 2-4 weeks of improvement before moving to another stage of opening.  I think he's changed his tune. Yesterday he announced that stores with their own outdoor

It's a proven fact that wearing a mask can help! Why don't our top politicians start wearing a mask at the public??  

Look at how things are under control in Korea and Singapore,  and look at how the top people setup a role model so everyone follows.  

I still see half of the people outside in gocery stores or simply walking outside downtown Toronto without wearing a mask.  

If you cannot buy one, here it is:  www.ppecanadasupplies.com   

If you're following Ford by not wearing one, it's really an issue we should be dealing with! 

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14 hours ago, cannabis_ca said:

It's a proven fact that wearing a mask can help! Why don't our top politicians start wearing a mask at the public??  

Look at how things are under control in Korea and Singapore,  and look at how the top people setup a role model so everyone follows.  

I still see half of the people outside in gocery stores or simply walking outside downtown Toronto without wearing a mask.  

If you cannot buy one, here it is:  www.ppecanadasupplies.com   

If you're following Ford by not wearing one, it's really an issue we should be dealing with! 

Here's a plan. If you're afraid of people without masks. Stay at least 6 feet away from them at all times. 

Edited by Boges
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Ontario, and Canada at large, has seen this plateauing increase in the past week or two. 

Cases aren't dropping but increases aren't exponential and the Healthcare system is coping. 

One thing that gets lost in the statistics and media reporting is that almost half the cases have now been resolved (44.5%). So looking at a total case figure of 7,000 is very misleading. The actual figure is more like 4,000.

This had got to break one way or the other. And exponential increase or a decrease. Governments can't expect people to cower in their homes for another month with no more than 50 people dying of it in Province every day. And the statistically overwhelming number of those people being either 60+ or 80. Those people should be at home anyway. 

https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-report-en-2020-04-13.pdf

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17 hours ago, cannabis_ca said:

It's a proven fact that wearing a mask can help! Why don't our top politicians start wearing a mask at the public??  

Look at how things are under control in Korea and Singapore,  and look at how the top people setup a role model so everyone follows.  

I still see half of the people outside in gocery stores or simply walking outside downtown Toronto without wearing a mask.  

If you cannot buy one, here it is:  www.ppecanadasupplies.com   

If you're following Ford by not wearing one, it's really an issue we should be dealing with! 

The reason the pandemic is controlled differently in Singapore and South Korea is not simply about wearing masks.

This forum has actually had some very good debates explaining masks and their use and purpose. You can also go read about it on many sites.

Screaming at politicians they must wear them is probably not the best approach. 

You want to wear a face covering do so but stop screaming. Sounds like  your dope has you strung out. Relax man.

Edited by Rue
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Lol  Boges I wanna give you a hug..figuratively speakin....by the way B  I was stayin away from Trudeau at that distance long before the virus...call me a visionary.....

Edited by Rue
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7 minutes ago, Rue said:

The reason the pandemic is controlled differently in Singapore and South Korea is not simply about wearing masks.

This forum has actually had some very good debates explaining masks and their use and purpose. You can also go read about it on many sites.

Screaming at politicians they must wear them is probably not the best approach. 

You want to wear a face covering do so but stop screaming. Sounds like  your dope has you strung out. Relax man.

I refuse to wear a mask until I'm told I have to. 

I find I'm more careful about what I touch and if I touch my face, in public if I don't have that perceived protection. 

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I understand the initial lockdown of the province.  We weren’t sure what to expect and we didn’t want our health care system over burdened.  But after over a month, there are a total of 200 people in the ICU for covid-19.  It’s time to open up the goddamn province again and let people get back to work, while practicing mitigation and social distancing.  This is effing ridiculous.  

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9 hours ago, Shady said:

I understand the initial lockdown of the province.  We weren’t sure what to expect and we didn’t want our health care system over burdened.  But after over a month, there are a total of 200 people in the ICU for covid-19.  It’s time to open up the goddamn province again and let people get back to work, while practicing mitigation and social distancing.  This is effing ridiculous.  

Not while cases and deaths keep rising. 

The reason there are only 200 people in ICU's is because people largely been staying home. 

Like it or not, this is with us until May. 

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Btw, I initially voted yes in this poll.  But if Ford extents this shutdown past the middle of May, I’d like to switch my vote.  Even the middle of May is too long.

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13 hours ago, Shady said:

I understand the initial lockdown of the province.  We weren’t sure what to expect and we didn’t want our health care system over burdened.  But after over a month, there are a total of 200 people in the ICU for covid-19.  It’s time to open up the goddamn province again and let people get back to work, while practicing mitigation and social distancing.  This is effing ridiculous.  

So would you feel better if there were a thousand people in the ICU instead?

It was made clear early on that the whole point of the lockdown was to flatten out things so our health care system could handle it. It is handling it, barely. Open things up prematurely and cases will spike. It will have been as if the lockdown never happened, and in another month we could see the same disaster in our hospitals as Italy has.

The countries which have managed to keep some or much of their economies operating, or are starting to reopen, all have mass testing, very tight screening and tracing of those who test positive, masks for all, and good health care systems.

Canada qualifies on none of the above. We have fewer ICU units than most countries. We are short of test kits and short of labs to process them. We have no PPE gear or ability yet to make any. We don't even have enough masks for health care people. We have approximately ZERO available to the public. ZERO. They're being handed out like candy by the authorities in Germany and Singapore. We have none. We suck at tracing because we consider it far, far, far, far, far, far, far more important not to violate anyone's sense of privacy than we do tracing where people with the virus have been.

This country is not prepared to reopen and won't be for some time.

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16 minutes ago, Argus said:

So would you feel better if there were a thousand people in the ICU instead?

It was made clear early on that the whole point of the lockdown was to flatten out things so our health care system could handle it. It is handling it, barely. Open things up prematurely and cases will spike. It will have been as if the lockdown never happened, and in another month we could see the same disaster in our hospitals as Italy has.

The countries which have managed to keep some or much of their economies operating, or are starting to reopen, all have mass testing, very tight screening and tracing of those who test positive, masks for all, and good health care systems.

Canada qualifies on none of the above. We have fewer ICU units than most countries. We are short of test kits and short of labs to process them. We have no PPE gear or ability yet to make any. We don't even have enough masks for health care people. We have approximately ZERO available to the public. ZERO. They're being handed out like candy by the authorities in Germany and Singapore. We have none. We suck at tracing because we consider it far, far, far, far, far, far, far more important not to violate anyone's sense of privacy than we do tracing where people with the virus have been.

This country is not prepared to reopen and won't be for some time.

Not to sound heartless, but even a thousand in ICU out of 15 million people isn’t all that much.  Regardless, nobody is saying open things up like before the virus existed.  People and businesses can practice mitigation.  People can work from home.  Masks and gloves and sanitizer, and 6 feet distancing would all still apply.  High risk people would still stay in quarantine.  And our focus could be protecting the most vulnerable.  If by sometime you mean two or three weeks, sure, I’d agree.  But not much longer than that.  You can’t destroy the lives and livelihoods of tens of millions of people to hypothetically protect thousands.  The most vulnerable can confirm to isolate.  But the longer you keep the greater population isolated and locked down, there more their health becomes an issue too.  Poverty, anxiety, depression, suicide, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, domestic violence are all things that statistically will increase by certain known percentages as time goes by, and as people continue to be without jobs, and in isolation.  You can’t discount those people’s health either.

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12 minutes ago, Shady said:

Not to sound heartless, but even a thousand in ICU out of 15 million people isn’t all that much.

It won't be a thousand. It will be a thousand at a time.

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

Regardless, nobody is saying open things up like before the virus existed.  People and businesses can practice mitigation.  People can work from home.  Masks and gloves and sanitizer,

We have none of of those things.

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

 If by sometime you mean two or three weeks, sure, I’d agree.  But not much longer than that.  

I tend to agree. I'm angry we have to shut everything down because of the incompetence of our governments in not preparing for this, and in not doing anything as it unfolded. We're STILL not screening people who come here from China, from what I've heard. We hand out pamphlets or pieces of paper which most of them can't read anyway.

And yes, people are still coming in. TFWs, immigrants, 'citizens' who have never lived here, among them.

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

You can’t destroy the lives and livelihoods of tens of millions of people to hypothetically protect thousands.  T

The numbers bandied about were hundreds of thousands. And it's not like after they all died that would be that either. The longer the epidemic lasts, the more people die. Unless there's a treatment or a vaccine.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

It won't be a thousand. It will be a thousand at a time.

We have none of of those things.

I tend to agree. I'm angry we have to shut everything down because of the incompetence of our governments in not preparing for this, and in not doing anything as it unfolded. We're STILL not screening people who come here from China, from what I've heard. We hand out pamphlets or pieces of paper which most of them can't read anyway.

And yes, people are still coming in. TFWs, immigrants, 'citizens' who have never lived here, among them.

The numbers bandied about were hundreds of thousands. And it's not like after they all died that would be that either. The longer the epidemic lasts, the more people die. Unless there's a treatment or a vaccine.

Nonsense.  Mitigation practices as well as social distancing reduces the spread of the virus.  High risk people can remain isolated.  High risk people make up the vast majority of hospitalizations.  

We have every one of those things.  Masks, gloves, sanitizer, hand washing, the ability to sit, stand, or work 6 feet apart.  People can even work from home.

i agree that testing is the key and it needs to be ramped up.  But no, virus’s don’t keep going and going at high levels until a vaccine is produced.  Virus’ have a natural infection curve to them regardless of a vaccine.  Evidence suggests that most people that get Coronavirus have little to no symptoms anyways.  That’s why protecting high risk people is the most important.  But it’s counter productive and unscientific to treat all people as high risk.  It dilutes resources that should be directed more narrowly.  It also causes life altering hardship to tens of millions of people that don’t otherwise need to be.

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 2:31 PM, Shady said:

Nonsense.  Mitigation practices as well as social distancing reduces the spread of the virus.  High risk people can remain isolated.  High risk people make up the vast majority of hospitalizations.  

We have every one of those things.  Masks, gloves, sanitizer, hand washing, the ability to sit, stand, or work 6 feet apart.  People can even work from home.

i agree that testing is the key and it needs to be ramped up.  But no, virus’s don’t keep going and going at high levels until a vaccine is produced.  Virus’ have a natural infection curve to them regardless of a vaccine.  Evidence suggests that most people that get Coronavirus have little to no symptoms anyways.  That’s why protecting high risk people is the most important.  But it’s counter productive and unscientific to treat all people as high risk.  It dilutes resources that should be directed more narrowly.  It also causes life altering hardship to tens of millions of people that don’t otherwise need to be.

Are you going to ensure that people who are high risk also stay away from people that go out into the world? Do you still keep people at home that live with at-risk people. . . like their parents? 

I'll concede we're in a very annoying holding pattern regarding this disease. New cases are pretty steady, but deaths are almost exclusively at risk people and are not overwhelming the system. 

You'd like to see the closing of non-essential businesses be overturned first. But, like with the US, we need on demand testing. We can't ration testing to only those who have symptoms, because then it's too late, they've already been in the world passing the virus along to God-know-how-many people. 

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Dofo has mused about maybe opening stuff up by May 2/4. 

Ontario still needs to see a marked drop in infections and deaths. However there's an exponential increase in testing without a comparative increase in cases. 

Seems for reason to be optimistic this won't get worse, but not enough to figure that we're through the worst of this. 

He's asked the military to help with Nursing Homes, I think that's where the most carnage is happening. 

 

 

Edited by Boges
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  • 2 weeks later...

So how do you define 14 days of reduced numbers? 

Ontario's peak cases came on April 25 when they recorded 640 cases. For 9 days every total has been lower than that figure. But not all days have been lower than the previous day.  

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-370-new-cases-of-covid-19-death-toll-surpasses-1-300-1.4923641

It's tough to expect every day total be lower than the previous day. But the trend is definitely downward all while testing is much higher. 

Outdoor business have been allowed to open today. Landscaping, Gardening etc. 

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

So how do you define 14 days of reduced numbers? 

Ontario's peak cases came on April 25 when they recorded 640 cases. For 9 days every total has been lower than that figure. But not all days have been lower than the previous day.  

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-370-new-cases-of-covid-19-death-toll-surpasses-1-300-1.4923641

It's tough to expect every day total be lower than the previous day. But the trend is definitely downward all while testing is much higher.

I don't think they use number of cases. Given they keep ramping up testing the number of positives are bound to increase. I think what they count are hospital admissions and people in intensive care and the like, because they increase or decrease without regard to how much testing is being conducted.

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Last week Ford said he'd need to see 2-4 weeks of improvement before moving to another stage of opening. 

I think he's changed his tune. Yesterday he announced that stores with their own outdoor entrance can open with Curbside pickups. Garden Centres can open up and the LCBO is going back to longer hours. 

I think this Curbside pickup approach may be a good approach going forward. It's better than waiting a week for a delivery and you don't have to go into a store and . . . you know. . . be around people. 

Let's hope these cautious steps don't lead to a spike, like I'm expecting in the US. 

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New cases stay stubbornly high, but testing has increased. 

The hidden aspect is the number of live cases. 

You'll see in about a week the cases will cross the 20,000 mark. But the recovered cases is around 14,000. 

So only around 6,000-7,000 people are active. More than 2/3 of the cases have been recovered. 

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Resolved cases now account for 75% of the total cases. That's incredible! 

Also testing per million is now over 30,000 which is on par with the National average and the testing in the US that Trump touts as "leading the world". 

Daily new cases have now dropped below 300 a few times this week. 

DoFo has now declared that most retail can re-open. Golf Courses can re-open. All construction project can now re-open. 

It appears we're on the downside of this. Let's hope the numbers don't spike in response.

People need to remain mindful of their surroundings. But there is lots of room for optimism. 

Restaurants need to be the next shoe to drop. 

Edited by Boges
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On 4/22/2020 at 3:10 PM, eyeball said:

We need evidence that proves, suggestions just don't cut it.

Fine, evidence proves.

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