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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Fanatics and virus slaves artificially inflated the numbers in the guise of "data correction", at exactly the most vulnerable time for the public. Right when kids are going back to school. I provided the source links. These were deaths in May. There's no reason to list them in October. It's inexcusable.

When should they correct themselves?

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You stay the fuck home.  It's easier that way.

I refuse to wear a mask until I'm told I have to.  I find I'm more careful about what I touch and if I touch my face, in public if I don't have that perceived protection. 

Last week Ford said he'd need to see 2-4 weeks of improvement before moving to another stage of opening.  I think he's changed his tune. Yesterday he announced that stores with their own outdoor

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

When should they correct themselves?

Immediately, and by putting the data onto the correct date. Otherwise, it is not a correction at all. It is an error.

 

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Immediately, and by putting the data onto the correct date. Otherwise, it is not a correction at all. It is an error.

I don't suppose you've ever made an error, and not noticed for a few hours/days/weeks/months, eh?

Yes, it is an error.  Corrected.  

Yes, you can question about whether they should have adjusted historical data or included it in current data.  When I was bookkeeping, if we discovered an error in  that was made in the previous year, we couldn't go back and change the previous year, but there had to be a correction made - so it would be made in the current year. I don't know the system for tracking deaths, but it could be there is some reason, aside from your paranoid assumptions, that meant counting it in the current month was necessary. 

And somehow I think that if they'd gone back and adjusted numbers in previous months, you'd find fault with that based on the idea that this is some scam to scare people. 

Ultimately, though, it's not really important.  The total number of deaths won't be known for some time, if ever.  They're still guesstimating that the 1918 flu killed between 20 million and 50 million people over 3 years.  We'll never know for sure, and we won't know for a long time yet just how deadly it is or isn't, or what the long term effects might be for some people.   Ranting about how the government/media/whatever is trying to 'scare' us, as people actually get sick and die, is pretty dumb honestly.  Why does it bother you so much that most people want to take precautions to ensure they don't get sick and die, or don't infect their parents/grandparents and kill them?  

 

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47 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And somehow I think that if they'd gone back and adjusted numbers in previous months, you'd find fault with that based on the idea that this is some scam to scare people. 

No not at all, because then it would be a proper correction. Not one that would confuse us about the current outbreak. This is data on a web site, not some archaic bookkeeping software.

Don't "think" your projections on me. It is pointless. Not conducive to intelligent debate.

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  You can read this headline, and get scared:
Ontario experiencing spike in new COVID-19 ICU admissions not seen since June, data shows

Read the subtitle, and continue on to the first seven paragraphs. Sounds very worrying!
Scroll past the video that is not directly related to the story, on to the next paragraph.

Quote

The latest available one-day tally for Ontario intensive care units (ICUs) showed eight new patients across the province by end-of-day Wednesday. That's a high Ontario's hospitals haven't hit since June 4, though it's still below the mostly double-digit daily ICU admissions during the first wave of cases from the end of March to early May.

 

====

 

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The real question is why does Canada have about 2.5 hospital beds per hundred thousand people when Australia has 3.84, France has 6, Germany has 8, and South Korea and Japan have 12-13. And of these, only Germany spends more than we do on health care. In fact, we spend almost exactly the same per person as Australia. France spends about a hundred bucks a year less.

Edited by Argus
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The lack of hospital beds is a problem. The problem was made worse when at a time when there is a long waiting list for life saving procedures, the government shut down many of the available beds, and people were afraid to come to hospitals at all. People needing treatments for cancer and heart disease, the real killers couldn't get them. This  certainly resulted in unnecessary deaths, and there will be more if they are shut down again. 

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On 10/13/2020 at 2:30 PM, oops said:

The lack of hospital beds is a problem. The problem was made worse when at a time when there is a long waiting list for life saving procedures, the government shut down many of the available beds, and people were afraid to come to hospitals at all. People needing treatments for cancer and heart disease, the real killers couldn't get them. This  certainly resulted in unnecessary deaths, and there will be more if they are shut down again. 

Yes indeed, although some folks couldn't believe that when I told them, cancer and heart patients not being seen for the planning stages of their treatment. For a while, only those who were already actively being treated were allowed to continue. All diagnostic procedures were halted. No medical imaging.

Report out today that the province must address the surgery backlog. This article shows just how serious it is-

Quote

The Ford government recently announced a plan to address Ontario’s massive surgery backlog, the largest in Canada.

Estimates place the backlog, which is partly due to COVID’s impact on hospital capacity, at more than 148,000 procedures. And despite the term “elective surgery,” this backlog is composed of medically-necessary procedures from cancer surgeries to cataract removals.

Massive surgery backlog latest symptom of Ontario's health-care problem


Another bit in the article, for Argus:

Quote

the province’s Financial Accountability Office found that the average occupancy rate for beds in Ontario hospitals in 2018-19 was 96% (the highest when compared to 28 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries including Canada, which was third highest ), with 28 hospitals operating above 100%.

Our hospitals have essentially been operating at 100% capacity, no overhead. In fact no available capacity for a large-scale emergency.

And then along came Mary...

 

Edited by OftenWrong
because new software is truly for pussy-wimps
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Ontario is shuttin 'er down, shut 'er down. So says the mighty Premier. Mr. Ford would like Ontarians who are now laid off and putting their lives on hold again for at least another month, to know how much he feels for them.

Easy enough for you to say, Doug. Your empathy means little. No more gym for people to use, no more restaurant workers to be employed. Their lives are shuttered, while you people carry out some kinda weird social experiment.

I am not alone in this opinion...

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Ford has all but admitted that he’s passed the buck and has opted not to lead anymore, repeatedly saying he will do what he is advised to do by the select doctors and public health officials who are offering him the sort of pro-lockdown advice that more and more expert voices, including those at the WHO, are now urging us to rethink.

FUREY: Fact-free Ford strikes again
(Toronto Sun)

Emphasis is mine.

Edited by OftenWrong
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