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Let’s chat about the atheist religion. Believers in the mainstream god religions often denigrate and discriminate against atheists, non-believers and rival religions on moral grounds. Godless mean without a moral sense to them. I seek a solution to this p


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Let’s chat about the atheist religion.

 

Believers in the mainstream god religions often denigrate and discriminate against atheists, non-believers and rival religions on moral grounds. Godless mean without a moral sense to them.

 

I seek a solution to this problem, as the godless, statistically speaking, seem more moral, law abiding and peaceful than traditional mainstream religious believers who, ironically, claim a superior moral position, while having an inferior one. Statistics are quite clear on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

 

As a Gnostic Christian, I get it from both sides. From believers who see me as an atheist and from atheists who see me as a believer. Both sides are wrong, given that Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenist and free-thinking naturalist, --- who hold no supernatural beliefs, --- regardless of the lies put into history by the inquisitors who decimated us, --- but never annihilated us. We are a religion of perpetual seekers of knowledge and wisdom, who raise the bar of excellence whenever we think we have the best ideological position.

 

This prevents the idol worshiping of the immoral gods, that the mainstream religions are prone to follow. This makes Gnostic Christianity a superior ideology. Perhaps this open-mindedness explains the hate towards us from god believers, as well as towards atheists and other non-believers that believers target.

 

Solutions to this endless denigration and discrimination are hard to come by, given that governments are not promoting any kind of dialog between the various religions and non-believers and allow religions to continue promoting vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

 

To my way of thinking, be you following a theology and named god, a philosophy of a named philosopher, a religion that puts man above god and focuses on knowledge and wisdom like mine, a political tribe like Democrats and  Republican, statism or any other thinking system, --- all groups named are following an ideology, --- and can thus be seem and described as a religion.

 

It is thus proper English to call atheism a religion. In fact, given the stats, atheism is a more moral religion than most. I am thinking that if all atheist proudly took on the religion label, --- as their atheist churches are doing, --- more god believing religionist would likely opt for atheism as their religion so as to improve their moral sense.

 

Take your deserved bow my atheist friends. You are now second only to my own Gnostic Christianity. We Gnostic Christian did what I advise here before the inquisitors got to us and that may be why we were known as the only good Christians.

 

Regards

DL

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15 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Let’s chat about the atheist religion.

Believers in the mainstream god religions often denigrate and discriminate against atheists, non-believers and rival religions on moral grounds. Godless mean without a moral sense to them.

 

 

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Lol.   Aren't you denigrating atheists when you call their ideology a..........religion?  :)

Edited by betsy
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On 4/16/2020 at 10:29 AM, betsy said:

Lol.   Aren't you denigrating atheists when you call their ideology a..........religion?  :)

No. I am showing reality.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 10:39 AM, bcsapper said:

It's like saying I'm a musician because I don't play the piano.

 

That is not a thinking system or an ideology is it.

 

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a
new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of
“atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

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Just now, French Patriot said:

No. I am showing reality.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

 

 

 

 

 

That is not a thinking system or an ideology is it.

 

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a
new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of
“atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

 

It never occurred to me that atheists could be religious, but I think that's because there are so many names for those who do not believe there is a God.  I would never imagine an atheist to be someone who has simply disaffiliated from organized religion.  The word, to me,  does necessarily mean someone who has no belief in God.  And by definition, prayer.

I suppose if I were to try and characterize myself with accuracy as extreme as I could I would call myself an agnostic atheist.  It's not a big deal to me, though.

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20 hours ago, French Patriot said:

No. I am showing reality.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

 

 

 

 

 

That is not a thinking system or an ideology is it.

 

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a
new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of
“atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that indeed, atheism is a "religion."   Dawkins must've been among their Popes or bishops!

But.....they do seem to be offended when atheism is referred to as a religion - thus I made that comment.....having fun with the irony of your statement.

Edited by betsy
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As an atheist reading through this thread I thought I would try and shed some light as to what atheism means to me and perhaps dispel the idea that it would be classified as a religion.

I have found analogies can sometimes work well in conveying complexity so imagine that the various religions of the world are represented by the different colors of a rainbow. They are rich and varied but follow the same path (of worship and belief in this case). Now your own personal religion would be perceived as white - a color none the less but this one is special. You would argue that it ‘illuminates’ better than all others as it does not follow a narrow path but is rather all-encompassing and provides you with the best perspective on life.

Now atheism, this is black, some think it’s a color but in its truest logical meaning it is in fact the absence of all color.

Those who are religious might think to pity those who choose to identify with the absence of color but in the darkness I begin to  truly realize we are all worth the same.

Now this is just an analogy and those who would criticize me may try to poke holes in it but in the end I am not trying to make you believe anything, I am just trying to help you understand.

Edited by Heelaque
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Heelaque

Thanks for your clear presentation.

Your ideology/belief system, tell you that black is not a color yet it is in most color charts.

If you allow yourself that, then you would also have to eliminate white as it is made up of all colors, including black. 

This link might help in terms of modifying your definitions. I like the way he tries to fight idol worship, then ends in showing that he is one.

I do know that many atheists do not like to be labelled as religious, but remember that atheist is wjhat they used to label the old mystery schools.

At the same time, many atheists are bright enough to know that if they do not give their children to appease or gratify their tribal instincts, one of the more vile god religions might draw them.

Religio, if you check the original definition, you will see that it was more of a secular term than what we think today.

Regards

DL

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Thank you for furthering this conversation with both of those videos French Patriot, I have watched both of them with an open mind and in consideration my response follows:

The first video seems to describe the purpose of religion as one that is meant to take our minds away from materialistic distractions and false worship and refocus our attention towards religious faith (a rhythmic recruitment video). As someone who is a believer "Jeff" is mistaking 'over-dependence' for 'worship' making such claims as (and I'm paraphrasing):

  • Girls worshiping their boyfriends and 'cosmo' being their bible.
  • Organized sports in stadiums.
  • Addiction to alcohol (inebriation) in bars.
  • Masturbation and pornography.

The clear way to counter his point is to state that moderation is key to a balanced life and if an individual becomes over-dependent on a particular act then this imbalance will have consequences in their private life. This does not mean you need to find god, perhaps a therapist or professional help to readdress the imbalance that has crept into an individuals' life-cycle.

 The second video then seems to describe the struggle between a religious organization and one of their pastors: an atheist who preaches to a congregation seemingly in an attempt to blur the lines between religion and atheism in potentially catering to those people who are winding-down from a religious belief-system and looking for a way to transition into a more spiritual perspective on life (an emotional safety blanket of sorts) which is a perfectly acceptable method for those in the congregation who feel the need for group therapy with added anonymity.

Both of these videos touch on the subject of 'lack of religion/faith' in exploring alternative definitions with modified acceptance as their end goal:

  1. Acceptance to the first video would mean that you would then change your ways because you come to a realization that you were worshiping all along - it was just the wrong thing.
  2. Acceptance to the second video would mean that religion is an ambiguous construct that is capable of manifesting in many shapes and one may fit you if you chose to accept it.

To me atheism is neither one or the other, I worship nothing due to the fact that nothing is worth blind obedience and I have faith in nothing that is not based on fundamental facts and evidence.

To the commentary you personally provided:

"Your ideology/belief system, tell you that black is not a color yet it is in most color charts. If you allow yourself that, then you would also have to eliminate white as it is made up of all colors, including black."

It is not a belief system that tells me black is not a color, just because something occurs on a color chart doesn't mean my analogy is invalid as I stated in my original post: "Now this is just an analogy and those who would criticize me may try to poke holes in it but in the end I am not trying to make you believe anything, I am just trying to help you understand." 

Thank you so much for tackling this with me and I appreciate the time and effort you have placed in this discussion, I look forward to furthering and expanding on anything I have presented so far.

Edited by Heelaque
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On 7/26/2020 at 12:04 PM, Heelaque said:

who are winding-down from a religious belief-system and looking for a way to transition into a more spiritual perspective on life

Something I thing all the religious in the vile god religions should do.

On 7/26/2020 at 12:04 PM, Heelaque said:

Both of these videos touch on the subject of 'lack of religion/faith'

The first pushes faith in Jesus after telling us the good reasons not to.

Faith, without facts, is for fools, and Christianity does not have facts.

On 7/26/2020 at 12:04 PM, Heelaque said:

To me atheism is neither one or the other, I worship nothing due to the fact that nothing is worth blind obedience and I have faith in nothing that is not based on fundamental facts and evidence.

You have no ideology that you live by or put above all the others?

I cannot see that.

On 7/26/2020 at 12:04 PM, Heelaque said:

I am not trying to make you believe anything, I am just trying to help you understand." 

Same thing. Splitting hairs.

Regards

DL

 

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:39 PM, French Patriot said:

Let’s chat about the atheist religion

Atheism is not a religion, it is simply the answer to one specific question.

Atheists have no dogmas, no rules to follow, no supernatural deities, no sanctified places, no prophecies, no ethical guidelines, no necessary organization, and I could go on.

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On 3/17/2021 at 10:47 AM, SkyHigh said:

1 Atheism is not a religion,

2 it is simply the answer to one specific question.

3 Atheists have no dogmas,

4 no rules to follow,

5 no supernatural deities, no sanctified places,

6 no prophecies, no ethical guidelines,

7 no necessary organization,

8 and I could go on.

8 I am sure you could my friend, but you would just continue to be wrong. IMO of course.

 

1. Google atheist churches. You will see things like -- 

Gretta Vosper | The Atheist Minister - YouTube

 

2 I see more than one question coming out of atheists.

The one on god and the other, the cause of atheist churches, is on how to not let their children be taken by a supernatural thinking god lying church. We all have a tribal instinct and atheists are protecting their children by giving them a tribe, more than a religion. Think of the old Mystery Schools.

 

3 You showed the dogma in 2, one answer, while i see the ideology as wider and deeper.

 

4 We all follow rules. No foolish garbage statements please.

 

5 In a way, we all have some ideal we hold above all others. This ideal is what we all define as god.

 Counterfeit Gods || Spoken Word || Jefferson Bethke - YouTube

The odd atheist does have a 

 

6 I agree that atheists do not prophesise.  I disagree on your view of their ethics and morals that guide them.

Most atheists I know, if not all, do indeed have an ethical  guideline, which is evidenced by atheist nations being more peaceful and law abiding than the god nations.

'Atheist' Nations Are More Peaceful - YouTube

 

7 See on atheist churches above for my argument.

 

Regards

DL

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/24/2021 at 1:28 PM, French Patriot said:

8 I am sure you could my friend, but you would just continue to be wrong. IMO of course.

 

1. Google atheist churches. You will see things like -- 

Gretta Vosper | The Atheist Minister - YouTube

 

2 I see more than one question coming out of atheists.

The one on god and the other, the cause of atheist churches, is on how to not let their children be taken by a supernatural thinking god lying church. We all have a tribal instinct and atheists are protecting their children by giving them a tribe, more than a religion. Think of the old Mystery Schools.

 

3 You showed the dogma in 2, one answer, while i see the ideology as wider and deeper.

 

4 We all follow rules. No foolish garbage statements please.

 

5 In a way, we all have some ideal we hold above all others. This ideal is what we all define as god.

 Counterfeit Gods || Spoken Word || Jefferson Bethke - YouTube

The odd atheist does have a 

 

6 I agree that atheists do not prophesise.  I disagree on your view of their ethics and morals that guide them.

Most atheists I know, if not all, do indeed have an ethical  guideline, which is evidenced by atheist nations being more peaceful and law abiding than the god nations.

'Atheist' Nations Are More Peaceful - YouTube

 

7 See on atheist churches above for my argument.

 

Regards

DL

 

1. How some random people choose to express their atheism is of no consequence to me. Do you think these supposed pastors speak for an entire philosophy? Do you think these random people speak for atheism as a whole the same way the Pope speaks for Catholicism, or how the bishop of Canterbury speaks for the church of England, or better yet do you think the Pope speaks for all Christians? Of course not.

2. Nope, just the answer to one question, is there a god. You either believe there is one(theist) or you don't(A theist)

3. Dogma is defined(merriam webster) as

1a. Somthing held as an established opinion especially a definite authoritative tenet

b.a code of such tenets

c. A point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds.

2. A doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church.

Please provide concrete examples of the doctrines of atheism.

4. Of course we all follow rules, the difference, mine can evolve, whilst yours are based on an unchanging book written thousands of years ago.

5,6. Not really sure what you're trying to say, but I'll give it my best shot. 

Yes all people live under moral and ethical guidelines, personally im a secular humanist, which apparently you (and the data) agree is superior by your statement that "atheists nations are more peaceful and law abiding then the god nations"

7. Again irrelevant

8. Please define "religion" as you understand it.

Cheers

SH

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A religion is basically a tribe, usually with a god or idol.

The god religions are backwards and honor genocide. The religions that seek wisdom instead of following a genocidal god tend top be more peaceful. This a side.

 

Our instincts and insecurity creates our tribal natures on which the existing culture imprints itself.

We begin with our first tribe, our families, then adopt whatever god is offered by the larger tribe that family is in. Those gods are protected  by the law of the lands.

The Groupish Gene - Jonathan Haidt - YouTube

Regards

DL

 

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19 hours ago, French Patriot said:

A religion is basically a tribe, usually with a god or idol.

Therfore by your own definition, atheism can not be a religion.

And regarding the rest of my post, I'll take your non response as capitulation.

Sincerely

SH

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15 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Therfore by your own definition, atheism can not be a religion.

And regarding the rest of my post, I'll take your non response as capitulation.

Sincerely

SH

Believe your delusions all you like.

Key word, --- idol.

We all have one as we are all tribal and or religious, by nature.

Regards

DL

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2 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Believe your delusions all you like.

Key word, --- idol.

We all have one as we are all tribal and or religious, by nature.

Regards

DL

My delusions?????

Please provide me with any definition from a credible recognized source that uses idol for atheism

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17 hours ago, unborntraveler said:

Read my letter to the godless atheist

We are almost all born with material dualism. A sense of body and soul. An itch that there is something more.

We are all born seeking to emulate the fittest and that is what we focus on, as our selfish gene drives us to show our fitness.

In that sense, there are no godless people.

Statistically, we know that countries that have less religions and gods and more atheist are better at following the law and living in peace than countries where there is a lot of religions and competing imaginary gods.

If you are to call atheist godless, then IMO, you compliment them.

It is much better to seek a good god than to follow the garbage gods and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

Moral people will reject the evil mainstream gods.

Regards

DL

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