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The failure of the western intelligence services


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To say the the U.S. Congress is/was impotent for COVID19 is laughable given how much it has injected itself into so many other Trump administration policies and decisions.

Given the antiquated nature of the US judicial system (no worse than ours) compelling anything from the administration is seen as a waste of time. It will take six months or more to run through all the court appeals just to find out what he had for breakfast. I don't think the US has ever seen an administration as obstructionist towards congress and its oversight role as this one.

Edited by Argus
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This topic is to discuss where did the western intelligence agencies failed in regards to the coronavirus pandemic ? Nancy Pelosi said "Come to China Town" and Donald Trump said "It is a democrat

You could be right, we'll never know. He took the heat for it though, at the start when it was panned as racist by the Dems/American MSM/the WHO/Trudeau, so now that people like Biden are lying and sa

What is in a word..ignored some reports outright...dismissed some outright... uderestimated some..."lost"   or "misplaced" or "hid" some...I worked in government so we had ways to be ordered how to ig

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17 minutes ago, Argus said:

"Ugh. Reading hard. Ugh" is, I understand, the motto of the Trump cult.

"Lies. Oh, delightful lies!" is, I understand, the motto of the Deceitful Demonic Dems.

  1. The Dems filed false docx with the FISA Court to get Mueller investigation launched ---did you complain about filing false docx?
  2. The Dems impeached Trump for him exactly obeying the USA's nearly 20yr-old foreign policy in Ukraine that specifically focused on poli-corporate corruption just like the kind that the Biden family indulged from 2014-'16 in Ukraine ---did you stay silent and hush hush about Biden family corruption? Did you play pretend that articles of impeachment in Article II forbid a President from exposing political opponents who are being corrupt??

The Dems hate the USA which their ancestors left them ---so they are determined to give it away to lightskinned foreigners, and you clearly enjoy their effort.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

 

Given the antiquated nature of the US judicial system (no worse than ours) compelling anything from the administration is seen as a waste of time. It will take six months or more to run through all the court appeals just to find out what he had for breakfast. I don't think the US has ever seen an administration as obstructionist towards congress as this one.

 

Could be, but your original contention is not supported by previous actions taken by not only the Democrats in the House and Senate, but also federal lawsuits and injunctions at multiple state levels, with the courts intervening in many Trump executive orders and policies.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Argus said:

 

Given the antiquated nature of the US judicial system (no worse than ours) compelling anything from the administration is seen as a waste of time. It will take six months or more to run through all the court appeals just to find out what he had for breakfast. I don't think the US has ever seen an administration as obstructionist towards congress and its oversight role as this one.

You are deflecting again. No US Judicial system is needed here, for you to provide proof that in late-Dec/early-Jan the House (Dem) Intel Committee was pressing Trump about his failure to respond to CIA report from China on COVID 19. They were too busy to do it bc they were saving face from getting destroyed in their impeachment hoax that occupied the nation, but you'll continue to fleece that fact about real time.

 

Edited by Tdot
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Intelligence agencies gather info which is then subject to debate on how to use it. Intelligence comes in many forms. It every rarely answers questions  directly...what it does do is provide possible arguments to consider various options and approaches..by nature it provides no absolutes so it doesn't fail...it might prove completely or partially untrue or inaccurate but the decision to rely on some, none or all of it relies on the decisions of non intelligence officials who may or may not use it.

So the thread promises reflects a misunderstanding of the nature intelligence and how it is used or ignored and most importantly by who it is used. 

 

Edited by Rue
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7 minutes ago, Tdot said:

"Lies. Oh, delightful lies!" is, I understand, the motto of the Deceitful Demonic Dems.

  1. The Dems filed false docx with the FISA Court to get Mueller investigation launched ---did you complain about filing false docx?
  2. The Dems impeached Trump for him exactly obeying the USA's nearly 20yr-old foreign policy in Ukraine that specifically focused on poli-corporate corruption just like the kind that the Biden family indulged from 2014-'16 in Ukraine ---did you stay silent and hush hush about Biden family corruption? Did you play pretend that articles of impeachment in Article II forbid a President from exposing political opponents who are being corrupt??

The Dems hate the USA which their ancestors left them ---so they are determined to give it away to lightskinned foreigners, and you clearly enjoy their effort.

Trolling thread drift.

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8 minutes ago, Tdot said:

"Lies. Oh, delightful lies!" is, I understand, the motto of the Deceitful Demonic Dems.

  1. The Dems filed false docx with the FISA Court to get Mueller investigation launched ---did you complain about filing false docx?

The Mueller (lifelong Republican) investigation was launched by a REPUBLICAN deputy attorney general appointed by Donald Trump. And almost all the FBI agents are Republican and always have been. Most law enforcement types are Republican.

8 minutes ago, Tdot said:

The Dems impeached Trump for him exactly obeying the USA's nearly 20yr-old foreign policy in Ukraine that specifically focused on poli-corporate corruption just like the kind that the Biden family indulged from 2014-'16 in Ukraine -

The Democrats impeached Trump for trading on the power of his office to try to get a foreign country to launch criminal investigations of his American political rival. That is an investigation no American law enforcement agency had any interest in because there is a complete absence of anything approaching criminal behaviour to be investigated

8 minutes ago, Tdot said:

The Dems hate the USA which their ancestors left them ---so they are determined to give it away to lightskinned foreigners, and you clearly enjoy their effort.

I have no F'ing idea what that even means unless it was spat out by a third-rate spambot trying to sound like a frenzied lunatic of the far right.

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2 hours ago, xul said:

1) How could Trump quarantine all travelers from China by merely banning the flights from China? Anyone who wants to enter US from China just needs to fly to another country first then fly into US. Unless US bans all flights, not only from China but also from other countries entering US, the ban isn't effective on blocking travelers from China entering US. 

2) Trump didn't ask anyone to be quarantined in US except American citizens who were directly evacuated from Wuhan by US government. Instead on Jan 31 US government announced all travelers from China should go to a third country and stay there for 14 days first before entering US. Trump saw this as a quarantine measure because if the person was infected in China, he or she would show symptom within 14 days and was treated in another country instead of in US, which means "Other countries first" on eating "Chinese virus". But there is a flaw in his brilliant scheme. If a person who wasn't infected in China, but was infected in the third country during the 14 days staying, he or she might not show any symptom at all before he was qualified to entering US. On the contrary, Canada asked travelers to be quarantined in Canada, which gave Canada the better control on the effectiveness of the quarantine measures.

3/4) I agree that the density of population may contribute a lot on Canada's performance. But still there are some megacities  in Canada and obviously the situations in these cities are not as worse as in NYC.

5) I'm under the impression that how many cases a province gets depends on what kind of industry it has. Saskatchewan and Manitoba have far less cases than ON or QC because their major industry is agriculture. Farmers needn't international travel to sell their products and by supplies for their farms but manufacturing needs a lot of international travelling.

China covered up the true amounts of who had the virus and let people leave China it knew were infected. China killed those trying to get out the true extent and nature of the virus. China has allowed numerous viruses over the years to contaminate the world due to its wet markets..avian, swine, sars, henta, other covid viruses. 

China refuses to implement proper food handling procedures. It will kill and make thousands disappear and infect the world rather than clean up its act.

China is run by a central organ that has contempt for human safety and life in the name of a greater concern..making profit. Profit is the collective captive God of China.

Its slaves are witnessing the coming of many more plagues. It is inevitable. It will implode in a new revolution. Replacing the current elitist corporate structure  with a Stalinesque dictatorship dependent on black markets is inevitable.

Edited by Rue
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16 minutes ago, Argus said:

"Ugh. Reading hard. Ugh" is, I understand, the motto of the Trump cult.

Well it is a lot of reading after all. Looks like a whole buncha links to me. Man that is old-school, we don't do link wars anymore. What's the point anyway, I can pull links out of my ass too.

Never did I say ugh. Please indicate where I have ever said ugh... You are welcome to go and filter through all my posts (again). Maybe you'll find that I love Nazism post some day! :lol:

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19 minutes ago, Argus said:

The Mueller (lifelong Republican) investigation was launched by a REPUBLICAN deputy attorney general appointed by Donald Trump. And almost all the FBI agents are Republican and always have been. Most law enforcement types are Republican.

The Democrats impeached Trump for trading on the power of his office to try to get a foreign country to launch criminal investigations of his American political rival. That is an investigation no American law enforcement agency had any interest in because there is a complete absence of anything approaching criminal behaviour to be investigated

I have no F'ing idea what that even means unless it was spat out by a third-rate spambot trying to sound like a frenzied lunatic of the far right.

Thank you.

And that is only because none of what you posted, changes the facts.

None of it changes the truth that The Dems filed false docx with the FISA Court to get Mueller investigation launched ---and you refused to complain about filing of false docx. Plus when it comes to how The Dems impeached Trump for him exactly obeying the USA's nearly 20yr-old foreign policy in Ukraine that specifically focused on poli-corporate corruption just like the kind that the Biden family indulged from 2014-'16 in Ukraine ---you did stay silent and hush hush about Biden family corruption plus you you play pretend that impeachment grounds within Article II forbid a President from exposing corrupt political opponents.

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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Well it is a lot of reading after all. Looks like a whole buncha links to me. Man that is old-school, we don't do link wars anymore. What's the point anyway, I can pull links out of my ass too.

Never did I say ugh. Please indicate where I have ever said ugh... You are welcome to go and filter through all my posts (again). Maybe you'll find that I love Nazism post some day! :lol:

Oy is better than ugh. Ugh is for Trudeau at the end of any sentence.

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1 minute ago, Tdot said:

Thank you.

And that is only because none of what you posted, changes the facts.

None of it changes the truth that The Dems filed false docx with the FISA Court to get Mueller investigation launched ---and you refused to complain about filing of false docx. Plus when it comes to how The Dems impeached Trump for him exactly obeying the USA's nearly 20yr-old foreign policy in Ukraine that specifically focused on poli-corporate corruption just like the kind that the Biden family indulged from 2014-'16 in Ukraine ---you did stay silent and hush hush about Biden family corruption plus you you play pretend that impeachment grounds within Article II forbid a President from exposing corrupt political opponents.

Thread drift bs

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17 minutes ago, Tdot said:

You are deflecting again. No US Judicial system is needed here, for you to provide proof that in late-Dec/early-Jan the House (Dem) Intel Committee was pressing Trump about his failure to respond to CIA report from China on COVID 19. They were too busy to do it bc they were saving face from getting destroyed in their impeachment hoax that occupied the nation, but you'll continue to fleece that fact about real time.

 

This coming from a bot that started to allegedly ridicule Biden and the entire Demo party and now attaches to most threads to simply egg on anyone to say something anti American.  

Neither Dems or Reps have failed. In the US disagreements generate further realizations. Its how democracy works. In your sad world you simply parrot back a script or disappear.

Genius.

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23 minutes ago, Rue said:

This coming from a bot that started to allegedly ridicule Biden and the entire Demo party and now attaches to most threads to simply egg on anyone to say something anti American.  

Neither Dems or Reps have failed. In the US disagreements generate further realizations. Its how democracy works. In your sad world you simply parrot back a script or disappear.

Genius.

 

 

 

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Damn that fight with Maroc was quick.,who saw that coming..lol.....western intelligence failure.. lol your  fat girl can sing only one  flat tune...its  no wonder you are so frightened of the  Negro Blues...

Muddy Waters., BB,  Grover Jr., Billie H, T bone,  John  Lee, Big Mama, I promise their entire team  will be pissin on your grave....

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

Uhm, no. Only the fat idiot in the oval office is claiming that, along with the usual grifters and lickspittles around him. And yes, fat boy is inciting people to protest against the lockdown, and his grifter friends, possibly the Russians, are all over the internet helping him to incite people against the lockdown. Came across this interesting discussion the other day about astroturfing on the subject. It was enlightening.

 

Yet people have taken the bait hook-line-and-sinker.

Fish are smarter when they're on their own so that's when you use hooks lines and sinkers to catch them.  When you're after the whole school at once you use a big net.  Oddly enough when they come in big schools they often get stupider so they're easier to catch.

Seriously though this virus couldn't have picked a better time to emerge.  It's almost like it knew.

Edited by eyeball
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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Intelligence agencies gather info which is then subject to debate on how to use it. Intelligence comes in many forms. It every rarely answers questions  directly...what it does do is provide possible arguments to consider various options and approaches..by nature it provides no absolutes so it doesn't fail...it might prove completely or partially untrue or inaccurate but the decision to rely on some, none or all of it relies on the decisions of non intelligence officials who may or may not use it.

So the thread promises reflects a misunderstanding of the nature intelligence and how it is used or ignored and most importantly by who it is used. 

 

What is there to debate or misunderstand when your intelligence tells you a potentially cataclysmic disease is breaking out?

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20 hours ago, Argus said:

And you sound like a brainwashed cult member.

The poster child for the brainwashed CNN mob is talking, I better listen.

I can learn about how Trump is known to have colluded with Russia despite the fact that there has never been any evidence of it, just evidence of the Dems/FBI lying to the FISA court and trying to entrap him. And how "Women who are caught lying and making extremely vague, uncorroborated allegations NEED TO BE BELIEVED!" And how Trump was such a lying idiot to say that he was being spied on, even though he actually was being spied on. And how he couldn't defeat islamic state [wrong]. And how blocking potential virus carriers from flying into the country is racist [now everyone is doing it]. And how walls are racist. Etc, etc. 

You're throwing around the term "brainwashed" lol. Next thing you know AOC will be calling people idiots. 

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Eye back on point  I really do think they phackec up in Chinz and covered it up but I see it as negligence over wet markets. I think we are bombarded now with false stories to distract from that. How hard is it  d for China to clean up its food handling prices.

I also think it's only a matter of time before we cross borderscor before we are allowed on planes they come up with some kind of test to sed if we are carrying any high or low temperature other indicators of illness.

How long for that who knows. World travel has made it necessary.

 

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20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What is there to debate or misunderstand when your intelligence tells you a potentially cataclysmic disease is breaking out?

You serious? When.. where.. who ..how many  could or would,or will be impacted... how to identify and track the virus..how do  we prevent panic...how do we manage it.. which sectors are priority 1, doctors, military, security, politicians...what medicines and equipment do we need..how do we shut down travel, people 's movement...who makes the announcements, how do we  liaise with doctors and hospitals and governments..on and on...blood supply...medical equipment supply... impacts from economic shut down ..managing surge in debt, bank rates,  stock market instability, management of viruses in prisons, schools, managing  essential services..you really need to ask?

Edited by Rue
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20 hours ago, Argus said:

No, it wasn't useless. But it should have been accompanied by stringent testing and quarantine measures for Canadians coming back from China, and then should have had bans on people from Iran and other high risk areas added to it, with accompanying quarantines on Canadians returning from there.

The bans by themselves are useless, as Canadians and Americans came back by the hundreds of thousands and weren't checked.

 

Dr. Horacio Arruda explains the source of current QC outbreak:

 

I think the current situation around the world is because during the early stage of the pandemic all national leaders in the world and WHO doctors believed, I mean they didn't speak it out aloud like Trump but believed it in their heart, that the virus was just some "Chinese virus"---like SARS in 2003 when most infected were Chinese in China and once China manages to get it under control, the virus will disappear and everything will back to normal. So why should they bother to inflict more stern quarantine measures which would definitely harm economy if there was an easy approach? 

When they realized that  covid-19 wasn't just another SARS, it was too late to contain it.  

Edited by xul
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2 minutes ago, Rue said:

You serious. 

If there was such an intelligence report then of course I'm serious.  I guess what lends the most credibility to the possibility is the implication that incompetency is what prevented the report from being acted on.

 

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