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Hello, Mr. Trudeau! Welcome to the wonderful world of ... Gun-Control Legislation!!


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This is nothing more than another liberal attempt at deflection of their excellent  handling of the pandemic, and the dumping of hundreds of billions of tax payers dollars. In this case it will be tie

There is. And it was useless in this case. Criminals or anyone determined have no difficulty getting illegal firearms.

I hear from my WY office the simple (and probably true) that someone trying to pull of the NS deal in WY would have been taken down by someone packing a handgun at first opportunity.  The idea that we

This is nothing more than another liberal attempt at deflection of their excellent  handling of the pandemic, and the dumping of hundreds of billions of tax payers dollars. In this case it will be tied into this recent shooting which it already has.....where the shooter had illegal firearms a hunting rifle, hand gun and shot gun, plus a RCMP hand gun, no mention of those nasty assault rifles, but they will some how be worked into the narrative somehow... ... it has nothing to do with overall safety of our citizens, but rather a feel good liberal exercise in further complicating the ownership of weapons. 

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We should've kept the gun registry.  That data was valuable.  There's no reason for civilians to own any weapons other than single-action hunting rifles.  We can grandfather existing licenses for other types of firearms and incentivize turning those arms in.  Why do we need them?  We don't.  If you need to fire the big guns at the range, perhaps there can be provision of that in a controlled setting where the firearms are kept under lock and key rather than at home.  Countries like Japan simply don't have issues like widespread gun violence because they don't have thousands of firearms in circulation.  The challenge is always arms coming across the border and through the reserves, so crack down on that.  Penalize illegal gun ownership like nobody's business. 

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We should've kept the gun registry.  That data was valuable.  There's no reason for civilians to own any weapons other than single-action hunting rifles.  We can grandfather existing licenses for other types of firearms and incentivize turning those arms in.  Why do we need them?  We don't.  If you need to fire the big guns at the range, perhaps there can be provision of that in a controlled setting where the firearms are kept under lock and key rather than at home.  Countries like Japan simply don't have issues like widespread gun violence because they don't have thousands of firearms in circulation.  The challenge is always arms coming across the border and through the reserves, so crack down on that.  Penalize illegal gun ownership like nobody's business. 

This sounds good.  At least, up until it's time for law-abiding Canadians to defend themselves against perps with illegal firearms.

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I hear from my WY office the simple (and probably true) that someone trying to pull of the NS deal in WY would have been taken down by someone packing a handgun at first opportunity.  The idea that we should live in a police state where only the authorities have weapons is repulsive to say the least.  The concept that it would have made any difference to the murderous bastard in NS is idiotic.  He planned and executed his bizarre scheme with great care and attention to detail.  Do you think an "assault weapon" (WTF that is supposed to mean) ban would have made any difference at all????   It just shows how devoid of logic the virtue signalling, politically correct world of Liberalism/liberalism must be.

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8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We should've kept the gun registry.  That data was valuable.  There's no reason for civilians to own any weapons other than single-action hunting rifles.  We can grandfather existing licenses for other types of firearms and incentivize turning those arms in.  Why do we need them?  We don't.  If you need to fire the big guns at the range, perhaps there can be provision of that in a controlled setting where the firearms are kept under lock and key rather than at home.  Countries like Japan simply don't have issues like widespread gun violence because they don't have thousands of firearms in circulation.  The challenge is always arms coming across the border and through the reserves, so crack down on that.  Penalize illegal gun ownership like nobody's business. 

The subject is more complicated than that, though I'm not advocating for lax gun control.  

Bottom line is that for some people, having a gun provides a sense of security they'd otherwise not have and it's politically difficult to refuse them that right.  If you live in a bad neighborhood, have been assaulted in the past (or your family has been) or perhaps you live remotely and far from law enforcement, NOT having a gun can leave you feeling helpless. 

I agree with the gun registry, and on strict penalties for illegal gun ownership or concealed weapons.  I have more trouble, however, with the the prospect of preventing a young victim of assault from keeping a firearm in their house and giving them a feeling/measure of control. 

The biggest issue, obviously, is the mental health one.  There should be VERY strict checks and balances on who has access to a firearm, and perhaps even occasional assessments that link back to the gun registry.  Might not be possible, but I'm spitballing...

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13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We should've kept the gun registry.  That data was valuable. 

No, it was largely useless, and filled with inaccuracies.

Quote

There's no reason for civilians to own any weapons other than single-action hunting rifles.  We can grandfather existing licenses for other types of firearms and incentivize turning those arms in.  Why do we need them? 

Gee, maybe because some psycho might come to our door to shoot us and the cops are 10-20-30-40 minutes away?

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  The challenge is always arms coming across the border and through the reserves, so crack down on that.  Penalize illegal gun ownership like nobody's business. 

That will not happen. No politician will address the free flow of arms through the cross-border reserves, and the judges have stated very clearly they will not allow mandatory minimum sentences for the smuggling, sale, purchase or possession of illegal weapons. Nor will they issue severe sentences, regardless of the scale parliament writes into law. Parliament can state a sentence up to twenty years for something, but judges will continue to hand out a year or two, and then give them 2 or 3 for 1 off because of pre-trial custody - regardless of what parliament says. Remember, the Tories tried to put in mandatory minimums and tried to eliminate the pre-trial custody deal. The judges said no. And they're in charge.

Edited by Argus
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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The biggest issue, obviously, is the mental health one.  There should be VERY strict checks and balances on who has access to a firearm, and perhaps even occasional assessments that link back to the gun registry.  Might not be possible, but I'm spitballing...

There is. And it was useless in this case. Criminals or anyone determined have no difficulty getting illegal firearms.

Edited by Argus
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14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We should've kept the gun registry.  That data was valuable.  There's no reason for civilians to own any weapons other than single-action hunting rifles.  We can grandfather existing licenses for other types of firearms and incentivize turning those arms in.  Why do we need them?  We don't.  If you need to fire the big guns at the range, perhaps there can be provision of that in a controlled setting where the firearms are kept under lock and key rather than at home.  Countries like Japan simply don't have issues like widespread gun violence because they don't have thousands of firearms in circulation.  The challenge is always arms coming across the border and through the reserves, so crack down on that.  Penalize illegal gun ownership like nobody's business. 

I get it fire arms scare the crap out of you, and for some reason your done with debating the topic, You've made up your mind, and will not change it....and in your mind you want to force all Canadians to restrict more like cancel any hobbies or sporting activities they have because you have this fear and need to force your opinion on others... Liberals and others like you have not produced any real life states or facts that would justify the rest of Canada need to ban these wpns. What is next kitchen knifes, hunting knives, bayonets', axes,  maybe we should ban cars as they kill more Canadians than any fire arm has...shit what about impaired driving, that claims thousands every year, and yet there is no cries to ban any of those items....neither by you or the liberals. Canada's gun laws are already restrictive enough...BTW the liberals still have not brought into law the last series of new gun laws they have promised, so why is there a rush to get this done, to make us safer....so why have they not passed these new amendments into law it's been what 5 years now....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-gun-facts-crime-accidental-shootings-suicides-1.4803378

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48 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I get it fire arms scare the crap out of you, and for some reason your done with debating the topic, You've made up your mind, and will not change it....and in your mind you want to force all Canadians to restrict more like cancel any hobbies or sporting activities they have because you have this fear and need to force your opinion on others... Liberals and others like you have not produced any real life states or facts that would justify the rest of Canada need to ban these wpns. What is next kitchen knifes, hunting knives, bayonets', axes,  maybe we should ban cars as they kill more Canadians than any fire arm has...shit what about impaired driving, that claims thousands every year, and yet there is no cries to ban any of those items....neither by you or the liberals. Canada's gun laws are already restrictive enough...BTW the liberals still have not brought into law the last series of new gun laws they have promised, so why is there a rush to get this done, to make us safer....so why have they not passed these new amendments into law it's been what 5 years now....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-gun-facts-crime-accidental-shootings-suicides-1.4803378

WTF do you need?  If you can’t defend yourself with a hunting rifle that can take down a bear you don’t deserve a gun license because you’re too incompetent to use a firearm responsibly.

Allowing handguns and multiple-round weapons  puts them in circulation.  Cut the demand and you cut the production, which means there are fewer guns available to fall into the wrong hands.  Sure, you can take the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” position, but it’s a lot easier to kill people with guns.  As Malcom Gladwell demonstrated by showing how suicide rates were much higher when gas ovens made suicide quick and easy, we shouldn’t make it easier for people to kill people by making killing machines accessible.  Opportunity is a huge factor in murder rates.

 

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3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

WTF do you need?  If you can’t defend yourself with a hunting rifle that can take down a bear you don’t deserve a gun license because you’re too incompetent to use a firearm responsibly.

Allowing handguns and multiple-round weapons  puts them in circulation.  Cut the demand and you cut the production, which means there are fewer guns available to fall into the wrong hands.  Sure, you can take the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” position, but it’s a lot easier to kill people with guns.  As Malcom Gladwell demonstrated by showing how suicide rates were much higher when gas ovens made suicide quick and easy, we shouldn’t make it easier for people to kill people by making killing machines accessible.  Opportunity is a huge factor in murder rates.

 

A rifle round may over penetrate and end up in your neighbour's kid - where a pistol round may not. A hunting rifle is also difficult to maneuver in close quarters. In small, confined spaces, where there may be multiple assailants who are armed with CQC weapons (handguns, knives, etc)- not being able to properly utilize your self-defense-weapon(TM) of choice can prove deadly.

Cut the demand? There isn't really a demand for many types of firearms because of the uncertainty of Canadian firearm legislation. South of the border is a different story but you'll never see that demand cut.

That's semantics anyway.

Handguns and multiple-round firearms have been around for a century. These things have been "in circulation" for that long.

In addition, if a criminal organization requires something - they will not let commercial production stop them. They can make it themselves.  It's very old and simple technology. If they can't make it, well - criminal organizations tend to have very strong logistics and supply chains. Your proposed changes are very questionable in regards to what they accomplish.

There are over 2 million licensed firearm owners in Canada. Every year, year after year, the (non-suicide) death rate due to firearms has been around 600 - the majority of which are gang related. 37 mil Canadians. Several mil firearms. +2 mil licensed firearm owners  = 600 deaths. They are tragic but we're talking about an almost statistical rounding error. Canada does not have a firearm problem.

As for easier to kill people with guns, let me remind you of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack

Edited by CentristPartyofCanada
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It's not what I need, it's not about can I shoot and kill a bear with just a bolt action rifle , none of those factors are even in todays firearms laws...Those laws on the books today are to encompass all fire arms owners, be it for hunting , sport, competition, or just to enjoy spending time on a range. You don't have to like any of those things, The way I see this is your infringing on those individual rights to own a legal fire arm...And I'm sure you would feel the same way if someone was attacking your hobby or way of life, or making a living from fire arms...This attack on firearms has been going on since they where invented, and where does it stop, when fire arms are no longer available in Canada...What is it going to take to satisfy your fear of fire arms...

Canada's national firearms maker that makes our militaries small arms also sell these same wpns  Assault rifles, in semi auto to the civilian population, thanks to your liberal government for allowing them to do that, and all to save jobs, because we will do anything to save jobs right....cut the demand and you'll cut production...what a load of crap...how did the NS shooter gain access to his wpns, with out a pal, How did all of that same thought process of restricting these items or ban them out right work for booze during prohibition, other than driving it under ground...thats what will happen with these wpns...

Once again Cars kill more people than guns and I don't hear you screaming to ban them.....by more than 1000 times over guns...you don't need a trigger to kill someone...

Stop letting your fear of firearms control your life...They are nothing more than tools, like a car... 

all my wpns are bolt action, and I don't own a hand gun. but then again so was the NS shooter armed with one hunting rifle , one shot gun and 2 pistols....and he managed to kill 23 people all with illegibly owned that is just like any other common criminal that has firearms , did current firearms laws keep any of those victims alive, or feel any safer … no they did not. So your plan of action is to punish those fire arm owners that legally own weapons' who already follow the law...., makes sense to me .….

Edited by Army Guy
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3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

all my wpns are bolt action, and I don't own a hand gun. but then again so was the NS shooter armed with one hunting rifle , one shot gun and 2 pistols....

We know his weapons? I missed that. How did he get them? There was some speculation about that interaction with the RCMP officer. 

I have never killed an animal with a gun but several of my close relatives are hunters and we have guns in the house. For reasons I can't really explain, I'm particularly squeamish about other people killing large predators like bears although some of my friends have done that in NL. 

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9 hours ago, Tdot said:

Yet.

Now, Trudeau can make sure that it never happens.

He doesn't give a damn about making sure it never happens. It's pure political posturing and grandstanding on his behalf. Like everything he does he's just going for the low hanging fruit while ignoring the real problem. And as usual he's been caught plain outright lying about the subject. Like the time he claimed you can just walk into a store and purchase a firearm without a license, or when he claimed storage laws are lax.

He prays on the ignorance of the general population regarding firearms and the applicable laws. He fear mongers with his talk of "assault" rifles and weapons of mass destruction. Sadly, too many Canadians are gullible and take him at his word. The fact is that licensed firearm owners in Canada are three times less likely to be involved in criminal activity or illegal acts than the non firearm owning general public. The fact is that we have very stringent laws governing firearm ownership and storage in Canada. The fact is that legal firearms have never been a problem worthy of any note in Canada.

This has absolutely nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with advancing his own personal agenda. As it always is with this detestable person.

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16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

WTF do you need?  If you can’t defend yourself with a hunting rifle that can take down a bear you don’t deserve a gun license because you’re too incompetent to use a firearm responsibly.

Allowing handguns and multiple-round weapons  puts them in circulation.  Cut the demand and you cut the production, which means there are fewer guns available to fall into the wrong hands. 

When police finally arrived at the first place this killer attacked, they found 7 houses on fire and 13 people dead. Now I'm gonna go out on a very slight limb here and say this would likely not have happened in the US because most of those rural homes would have had gun owners in them. This guy likely would have been stopped or driven off before he racked up so many deaths.

You will never cut production because 99.9999% of it is outside Canada. Much of that is in the US, where guns are absolutely everywhere. Do you know how easy it is to drive 60 miles south of where I'm at and buy a hand gun and get it back across the border? The cops can't possibly search every car, or even a fraction of them. They basically ask you a few questions and if your name isn't on a list they wave you through. In fact, I don't even need to do that. I'm close enough to Cornwall, and know people there, and guns are routinely smuggled across the river or through the native reserve. You can't keep guns out of this country. You can only make it harder for law-abiding people to have them.

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48 minutes ago, Argus said:

When police finally arrived at the first place this killer attacked, they found 7 houses on fire and 13 people dead. Now I'm gonna go out on a very slight limb here and say this would likely not have happened in the US because most of those rural homes would have had gun owners in them. This guy likely would have been stopped or driven off before he racked up so many deaths.

You will never cut production because 99.9999% of it is outside Canada. Much of that is in the US, where guns are absolutely everywhere. Do you know how easy it is to drive 60 miles south of where I'm at and buy a hand gun and get it back across the border? The cops can't possibly search every car, or even a fraction of them. They basically ask you a few questions and if your name isn't on a list they wave you through. In fact, I don't even need to do that. I'm close enough to Cornwall, and know people there, and guns are routinely smuggled across the river or through the native reserve. You can't keep guns out of this country. You can only make it harder for law-abiding people to have them.

I don’t understand the need to maintain a small arms arsenal, which just increases the volume of weapons.  The 2nd Amendment argument that having an armed population in case government becomes oppressive rings hollow both because police and military will always be much better armed and the government will use the private ownership of arsenals as a reason to trespass and seize once it deems any individual or group as a threat (e.g. Waco).  The argument that weapons can protect people from bad guys is the only compelling argument for having weapons (apart from for hunting or target practice), but brandishing weapons can escalate situations and lead to unnecessary deaths.  The biggest problem is that they are easily accessed in fits of rage or spells of depression or intoxication for homicide or suicide.  Just having them makes them available for illegal theft, sale, or trade.  Fewer guns does mean fewer deaths.

I bet the small arms did help the N.S. killer, but I’m not sure that anyone burned in their homes would have had a better chance of survival armed.  Again, continue to allow hunting rifles and don’t take away other approved firearms from those who already have them, but stop issuing permits for certain types of weapons and crack down on illegal firearms.  Yes of course mental health and other checks must be conditions of issuing permits.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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49 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t understand the need to maintain a small arms arsenal, which just increases the volume of weapons.  The 2nd Amendment argument that having an armed population in case government becomes oppressive rings hollow both because police and military will always be much better armed and the government will use the private ownership of arsenals as a reason to trespass and seize once it deems any individual or group as a threat (e.g. Waco). 

 

The affirmed 2nd Amendment right to own and bear arms in the United States is not intended to inform any such policies in Canada.  Still, Canada has a higher rate of gun ownership compared to many other OECD nations.    Many police officers in Canada are armed, and for good reason(s).

Canada is going to learn that the problem is much more difficult than watching American shootings on television and pretending to have all the answers.

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34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The affirmed 2nd Amendment right to own and bear arms in the United States is not intended to inform any such policies in Canada.  Still, Canada has a higher rate of gun ownership compared to many other OECD nations.    Many police officers in Canada are armed, and for good reason(s).

I think most Canadians are fine with law enforcement having handguns.  In terms of guns for hunting, Canada has many rural farms where it makes good sense to have firearms.  Also, hunting is an important part of a traditional way of life.  Good luck taking hunting rifles away from a northern Ontarian or Albertan.  It’s not on.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think most Canadians are fine with law enforcement having handguns.  In terms of guns for hunting, Canada has many rural farms where it makes good sense to have firearms.  Also, hunting is an important part of a traditional way of life.  Good luck taking hunting rifles away from a northern Ontarian or Albertan.  It’s not on.

 

The point being that Canadian law enforcement is armed partly because of the prevalence firearms in Canada, regardless of one mass shooting.  Feeble gun control attempts like the failed Gun Registry won't get the job done.   When criminals or the mentally ill get guns, all bets are off.

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On 4/22/2020 at 6:22 AM, Tdot said:

From the article:

Quote

In the wake of a deadly shooting rampage that killed 23 people in Nova Scotia last weekend, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has pledged to push for strict gun control legislation when the Canadian Parliament returns.

The shooting rampage in which no legal guns were used is the impetus behind taking guns away from the most law-abiding segment of the population.

Makes sense to idiots and liberals (the polite term for idiot), that's about it.

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3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The point being that Canadian law enforcement is armed partly because of the prevalence firearms in Canada, regardless of one mass shooting.  Feeble gun control attempts like the failed Gun Registry won't get the job done.   When criminals or the mentally ill get guns, all bets are off.

It was a mistake to get rid of the registry after all the money was spent and data collected.  Once we went down that road we should have stayed on it.  Another example of government waste due to government turnover.   A lot history of this in military procurements, infrastructure cancellations...

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1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

From the article:

The shooting rampage in which no legal guns were used is the impetus behind taking guns away from the most law-abiding segment of the population.

Makes sense to idiots and liberals (the polite term for idiot), that's about it.

If we followed your Republican ways our gun violence and Coronavirus cases would be doubled.  Get real.  

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It was a mistake to get rid of the registry after all the money was spent and data collected.  Once we went down that road we should have stayed on it.  Another example of government waste due to government turnover.   A lot history of this in military procurements, infrastructure cancellations...

 

Trudeau and the Grits understand the concept of never wasting a serious crisis.   He will try to move on gun control before the victims are all buried or cremated.

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trudeau and the Grits understand the concept of never wasting a serious crisis.   He will try to move on gun control before the victims are all buried or cremated.

Now is his chance.  I hope he takes it like Obama should have when they controlled Congress early on.  

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