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32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Tell that to the residents of south Syria who fell under the control of Islamic State.  I also seem to remember a German Treaty of Friendship with Turks during WW2.  I wonder if southern Spain felt colonized by the Moors.  What about the invasion of Constantinople?  How about the treatment of Yemen and the violence between Islamic sects in Iraq?  What about treatment of Christians in Egypt and Pakistan?  How far back do you want to go?  Are people at all accountable for their behaviour today?

And who brought the Islamic State there? Look up Operation Timber Sycamore, which showed how that last color revolution fell apart spectacularly.....a scheme concocted by the CIA and their friends in Israel, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Turkey to destabilize and demolish the secular republic of Syria, with no consideration for what the future consequences of their actions would be.....look we got a fight ISIS now!  Those crazy Muslims!!

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Canada is one of the LEAST racist countries in the world and actively works at stamping it out.  Why would you be overly concerned about racism in Canada when the MOST racist countries are Middle

This is like asking why some Canadians steal, or rape, or murder.

Probably similar to the reasons some Muslims are so loud about their hatred of non-Muslims, gays, Jews, etc.

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18 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Well some of us have real life experience. Like I could tell you stories about the Eastern European bloc how my grandma used to get up in the morning and wait 2 hours in line to get 1 egg. Milk was gourmet food. All because we have to show those capitalistic countries that we have no debt! Oh sure, that is just a dictatorship you will say, but if you read some history and have the ability to do critical thinking you will realize it all starts with the same garbage: "equality, everyone together to sing kumbaya". And regarding the healthcare my grandma put it well: "Healthcare was free then, yes, but when your number 1 concern was to not starve do you think I had time to get sick" ?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, who would not want in theory for everyone to be equal, but in a practical term humans beings are unique, different, some are lazy some are hard workers, some have ideas that provide the work. Sure there are problems in capitalism, companies are becoming more monopolistic but please stop with the workers of the world unite. The definition of insanity is to try the same thing all over again and to expect different results. I am sure you will do it differently this time and you will show those capitalistic pigs how is done. Not sure which system created more victims: communism or fanatical religion, both examples of systems in which people lose their rational thinking.

Depending where you were in Eastern Europe, was life better after the fall of communism? Or were virtually all state assets and enterprises confiscated by foreign capitalists and local stooges who enriched themselves selling off everything of public benefit. 

A lot of Russians and other ethnicities died after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and found themselves met by a new capitalist order that cut off their pensions, healthcare, closed their workplaces. This is one of the reasons why, regardless of all of the lamenting and whining that Putin is a dictator, Vlad Putin's popularity in Russia never falls low enough to put him at risk of a coup.  Russians who are old enough to remember how it was before, and lived through the collapse and disintegration of the Soviet system, say 'at least he's better than what we had before!'

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6 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Depending where you were in Eastern Europe, was life better after the fall of communism? Or were virtually all state assets and enterprises confiscated by foreign capitalists and local stooges who enriched themselves selling off everything of public benefit. 

Of course life was not better at the beginning because the same communists managed to infiltrate in the system to maintain some sort of power but at least people had freedom, you could walk down the street without worrying who will report you for making a joke or dared to have free ideas. Is so easy to read Das Kapital and think you found the solution to all the problems but every time it was applied it was a disaster. Why ? Because human beings are not machines to program them all to think one way. 

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Just now, Independent1986 said:

Of course life was not better at the beginning because the same communists managed to infiltrate in the system to maintain some sort of power but at least people had freedom, you could walk down the street without worrying who will report you for making a joke or dared to have free ideas. Is so easy to read Das Kapital and think you found the solution to all the problems but every time it was applied it was a disaster. Why ? Because human beings are not machines to program them all to think one way. 

If you do know what you're talking about, you'd be aware that Karl Marx wrote Capital to explain how capitalism functions/not to provide solutions. His goal was to first understand the problem, and he didn't live long enough or have the where-with-all to create a similar expansive work on how everything should function. In his later writings, he called upon others, who were younger, he inspired, to pick up the torch and create socialist societies. And Marx understood capitalism much, much better than David Ricardo and the shills for the business class in the 20th century. 

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2 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

he called upon others, who were younger, he inspired, to pick up the torch and create socialist societies.

Oh and that they did:

China: 82 million dead

USSR: more than 21 million dead

North Korea: 4.6 million dead

Vietnam: 3.8 million dead

Cambodia: 2.4 million dead

Afghanistan: 1.5 million dead

Yugoslavia: 1,172,000 dead

Germany: 815,000 dead

Mozambique: 729,000 dead

Ethiopia: 725,000 dead

Romania: 435,000 dead

Czechoslovakia: 262,082 dead

Venezuela: more than 252,000 dead

Poland: more than 235,000 dead

Hungary: 210,000 dead

Angola: 125,000 dead

Colombia: 105,419 dead

Albania: 100,000 dead

Rhodesia / Zimbabwe: more than 50,000 dead

Laos: 45,000 dead

Bulgaria: 31,150 dead

Cuba: 73,000 dead

Peru: 37,840 dead

Mongolia: 35,000 dead

Philippines: 22,799 dead

Greece: 15.401 dead

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59 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Yes, but the Ottoman Empire was in decline, long before they decided to get involved in a European war and fracture into a million pieces. Maybe because they were struggling to maintain their empire, the Turks allowed a lot more leeway than the French and British colonists who came later, and told them how they were going to develop their economies. The British and French had more to do with spawning the Islamic reactionary movements than any mullah or ayatollah trying to gather a crowd. 

Evidence? The Islamic 'reactionary' movements (that sounds weird because Islam has always been a reactionary movement) didn't produce any theocracies until the 1980s, well after the influence of the British and French had waned.

59 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

And speaking of lack of awareness of history, didn't you even know that a democratic government - Mossadegh was overthrown, with the Shah imposed by the US as a favour to the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company(later BP) and the Brits, to ease the transition from England to the USA as pre-eminent world power. The Iranians suffered under a brutal dictatorship for decades, and while communists and other movements were murdered and suppressed, the Shah's government and secret service (SAVAK) could only go so far when it came to opposition from the Ayatollah.

Uh, I actually mentioned this. Did you not read what I wrote? And as I pointed out, there's absolutely no guarantee Mossadegh would have kept his country democratic, or that he wouldn't have been overthrown by religious fanatics if he tired to go liberal. The Shah, as I pointed out, was not overthrown because he was too mean and nasty but because he was too liberal.

59 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

So, "succumbing to a strongman" is not from inborn weakness by the locals in any of the colonies that have become US commercial colonies since WWII, but because the forces of imperial capitalism unleash the CIA,

That's just nonsensical mush out of a Communist propaganda sheet. I note you're completely exempting the Soviet Union and China from responsibility despite how many 'revolutionary' movements they trained, funded and equipped to overthrow third world governments.

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1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

Depending where you were in Eastern Europe, was life better after the fall of communism? Or were virtually all state assets and enterprises confiscated by foreign capitalists and local stooges who enriched themselves selling off everything of public benefit. 

A lot of Russians and other ethnicities died after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and found themselves met by a new capitalist order that cut off their pensions, healthcare, closed their workplaces. This is one of the reasons why, regardless of all of the lamenting and whining that Putin is a dictator, Vlad Putin's popularity in Russia never falls low enough to put him at risk of a coup.  Russians who are old enough to remember how it was before, and lived through the collapse and disintegration of the Soviet system, say 'at least he's better than what we had before!'

Your attempt to patronize someone who lived in a communist country reads like someone born into wealth, comfort, and a silver spoon. Read it back.

Your words reflects what you read not lived.

Your words try to lecture something you never experienced but read on the internet.  

 

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1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

If you do know what you're talking about, you'd be aware that Karl Marx wrote Capital to explain how capitalism functions/not to provide solutions. His goal was to first understand the problem, and he didn't live long enough or have the where-with-all to create a similar expansive work on how everything should function. In his later writings, he called upon others, who were younger, he inspired, to pick up the torch and create socialist societies. And Marx understood capitalism much, much better than David Ricardo and the shills for the business class in the 20th century. 

Your attempt to lecture about Marx is hilarious is based on parroting what you read. Life is more than reading a text.  

Your words man ...they manifest a virgin  lecturing  someone who was raped what sexual intercourse is.....dude buy some clearasil.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tdot said:

This is not true, at all, here in the USA when it concerns negros (for example) in the Nation Of Islam.

In places like Harlem NYC or Chicago or Detroit or Houston or Compton CA you can always see groups of young people socializing during events, mixed gender, and that's likely because getting acquainted with a potential mate has to start somewhere long before marriage.

Really - they wear tags?

I never said anything about socialising during events, mixed gender.

And no, it doesn't have to start long before marriage. If you look around the world, you'll see it's true.

2 hours ago, Argus said:

there was no tradition of democracy or compromise in those lands

Islam established a democracy around 700 ad.

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1 hour ago, Marocc said:

Really - they wear tags?

No, they don't.  But they do show that they are young Muslims 1)of the the opposite gender who are 2)socializing with each other including 1-on-1 exchanges, which have resulted into specific young Muslims later involved in chaperoned courtships.  That all happens long before marriage, meaning they have private intimate-like relationships prior to marriage.

And you're correct that you never said socializing at events.  I am the one who said that. Yes. I said it in using an example of real life ways showing its untrue that "Muslims don't have 'relationships' outside marriage" since I'm talking about the behavior of young, single Muslims in those cities I mentioned.

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4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

have always respected their culture even when I did not agree or understand it...

Nudity in Islam is not a cultural matter. It is a legal matter.

4 hours ago, Argus said:

But he's made it clear that if there were enough Muslims they would demand laws be changed to suit their Muslim values.

I'm guessing by "he's made it clear" you mean he's never said it, but I could be wrong. You shouldn't gossip about your neighbours.

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

forget they are not in their countrie

Maybe they didn't know they were approaching a disturbingly immoral zone.

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

our citizens shouldn’t share their wealth and safety net, paid for by their work, with people who disdain the culture, obviously.

Is that on some public statement somewhere or did you just make it up? Can you explain why they should not?

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

but what about equality

Between whom?

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So there’s no question of getting to know a potential spouse before a woman is essentially locked into a marriage?

They can become aquinted.

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Your not going to totally stop sexual assault in any country

Not a valid excuse to support the right for "civilized" people to be nude in public.

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

if you don't like it leave it really is that simple,

Maybe it is that simple for wealthy people, but it isn't for refugees.

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

part of immigrating to another country or visiting another country is you have to adapt to their customs and culture

You don't have to.

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5 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Nudity in Islam is not a cultural matter. It is a legal matter.

I'm guessing by "he's made it clear" you mean he's never said it, but I could be wrong. You shouldn't gossip about your neighbours.

Maybe they didn't know they were approaching a disturbingly immoral zone.

Is that on some public statement somewhere or did you just make it up? Can you explain why they should not?

Between whom?

They can become aquinted.

Not a valid excuse to support the right for "civilized" people to be nude in public.

Maybe it is that simple for wealthy people, but it isn't for refugees.

You don't have to.

So basically we should roll out the welcome mat unconditionally while your home country and others like it require all forms of restrictions on visitors.  No thanks. That kind of setup isn’t fair or sustainable.  It probably took a crisis to finally allow us to take stock of what’s been going on.  Something tells me the fix is no longer in.  I find it funny that you place so much emphasis on nudity.  That’s what it’s all about right?  Cover up women and make them stand behind men at mosque because men shouldn’t have to worry about controlling themselves.  

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8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

require all forms of restrictions on visitors

What kind of restrictions?

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That kind of setup isn’t fair or sustainable.

How is it not sustainable? I get the fair part, but does everything have to be fair to be "sustainable"? Isn't capitalism an example that shows that in short periods of time, e.g. 200 years, unfairness is, technically speaking, sustainable from the point of view of the one who is in a better position?

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

to take stock of what’s been going on.

What's been going on?

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I find it funny that you place so much emphasis on nudity.

I don't know that I place more emphasis on it than other things.

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

make them stand behind men at mosque

As far as I know, most mosques have separate prayer "rooms" for men and women. It's a strange example you picked. I'm sure you can understand, if you think about it, that it is not good for men or women to be distracted by the opposite sex while praying.

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10 hours ago, Tdot said:

I said it in using an example of real life ways showing its untrue that "Muslims don't have 'relationships' outside marriage"

A lot of people who call themselves Muslims have relationships.

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14 hours ago, Argus said:

Your question is too broad. My Muslim neighbour lives in peace and harmony with everyone. But he's made it clear that if there were enough Muslims they would demand laws be changed to suit their Muslim values.

So what. My muslim co-worker is like the nicest and gentlest guy in the world. He's from Bangladesh, a predominantly muslim nation. If there were enough of him around the world would probably be a better place.

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1 hour ago, Marocc said:

A lot of people who call themselves Muslims have relationships.

Exactly.

Which then makes it untrue where you said "Muslims don't have 'relationships' outside marriage" is the point I was making.

 

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

So what. My muslim co-worker is like the nicest and gentlest guy in the world. He's from Bangladesh, a predominantly muslim nation. If there were enough of him around the world would probably be a better place.

Because Bangladesh is such a wonderful, tolerant place.

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Here in Europe as our immigrants are mainly Africans and Middle-Eastern Muslims and and as a result there is also Muslim-terrorism and as we have really no experience of Central-Americans or South-Americans many of us here think we would happily rather have people from those countries than the Muslims from Africa and the Middle-East.

But that's just because we don't know about those people. The drug-cartels and gang-crime brought to Norht-America by the Central- and South-American immigrants is horrific. Countries like Honduras and El Salvador have the highest murder-rates anywhere in the world surpassing the African rates.

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5 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Here in Europe as our immigrants are mainly Africans and Middle-Eastern Muslims and and as a result there is also Muslim-terrorism and as we have really no experience of Central-Americans or South-Americans many of us here think we would happily rather have people from those countries than the Muslims from Africa and the Middle-East.

But that's just because we don't know about those people. The drug-cartels and gang-crime brought to Norht-America by the Central- and South-American immigrants is horrific. Countries like Honduras and El Salvador have the highest murder-rates anywhere in the world surpassing the African rates.

Two thirds of Canada's murders come from street gangs. Street gangs came to Canada from Jamaica and Haiti in the 1970s when we opened up immigration to the third world. Virtually all street gangs are 'racialized' as they say, and made up mostly of immigrants/refugees and their kids. Although lately the natives(aborigines) have been imitating the bloods and crips and forming street gangs too.

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7 minutes ago, Argus said:

Two thirds of Canada's murders come from street gangs. Street gangs came to Canada from Jamaica and Haiti in the 1970s when we opened up immigration to the third world. Virtually all street gangs are 'racialized' as they say, and made up mostly of immigrants/refugees and their kids. Although lately the natives(aborigines) have been imitating the bloods and crips and forming street gangs too.

They are all going to be reduced to fighting with bats and knives though now, because of JT's new courageous stance on gun violence! 

Aren't they?

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I was kind of wondering if we started having Central-American drug gangs over here would we be delighted that at least they are not Muslim-terrorists so they are completely welcome.

Does this work the other way round too; Do many North-Americans think they would rather have a lot of muslims and Africans if only the Central- and South-Americans disappeared?

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7 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I was kind of wondering if we started having Central-American drug gangs over here would we be delighted that at least they are not Muslim-terrorists so they are completely welcome.

Does this work the other way round too; Do many North-Americans think they would rather have a lot of muslims and Africans if only the Central- and South-Americans disappeared?

Good people good.

Bad people bad.

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7 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I was kind of wondering if we started having Central-American drug gangs over here would we be delighted that at least they are not Muslim-terrorists so they are completely welcome.

Does this work the other way round too; Do many North-Americans think they would rather have a lot of muslims and Africans if only the Central- and South-Americans disappeared?

A lot of immigrants have come to my community from South America over the past few years.  I’ve only seen kind people who seem to be working hard.  My guess is. if there were drug lords rampant in their former communities, they were hoping to leave all that behind.  

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7 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Does this work the other way round too; Do many North-Americans think they would rather have a lot of muslims and Africans if only the Central- and South-Americans disappeared?

 

No, as Central and South Americans are still from the Americas and have a strong Christian following as well as a long Hispanic immigration history.   Mexico is also part of North America and has been a gateway to the north.   Africans were forcefully brought to the Americas as slaves and labourers hundreds of years ago.     

 

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