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On 5/2/2020 at 11:48 AM, Right To Left said:

From what little I know of how Muslim women are expected to dress in public, it is mostly taken from cultural context/not verses in the Quran or Hadiths etc. 

It is explicitly mentioned in the hadiths for one. I can't say anything about the Quran.

For example:

 
 

"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) wearing thin clothes. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to his face and hands.

Abu Dawud said: This is a mursal tradition (i.e. the narrator who transmitted it from 'Aishah is missing) Khalid b. Duraik did not see 'Aishah."

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/34/85

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Canada is one of the LEAST racist countries in the world and actively works at stamping it out.  Why would you be overly concerned about racism in Canada when the MOST racist countries are Middle

This is like asking why some Canadians steal, or rape, or murder.

Probably similar to the reasons some Muslims are so loud about their hatred of non-Muslims, gays, Jews, etc.

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On 4/23/2020 at 7:30 AM, Marocc said:

What is the real reason some Canadians are so racistic and so loud about it?

Hm, isn't hiding your face racist to begin with?

You hide your face, act in a certain way and this makes you less trustworthy to other groups.   

Then what is the principle behind nationality?  It is to unite people having the same cultural values and heritage.  This also means it is there to keep the rest out.

But hey, there are these experimental countries like the USA , Canada, Australia, New Zealand and then there is this global market , international partnership concept that turned just about every other country into an experiment.

To wrap it up, it is not about "Canadians being racist"  There will be racist views in every country and in every person.   

Edited by cougar
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3 hours ago, Rue said:

Oh there we go its settled. World peace.

 

uhhhhhh no. China cancelled out, World Peace, when they tried to take down North America with COVID 19: Vengeance is ours!!

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5 hours ago, Right To Left said:

1. You've never read any history of early 20th century Germany or Hitler in particular. Because, he took the lead of a nationalist socialist political party because he was well aware that socialism was too popular during a time when capitalism...especially banking was closely tied to Jewish identity in most people's minds, and the first thing he did when Hindenburg made him leader was to ban unions...not a 'socialist' thing to do obviously.

2. Both the US and Canada had lists of communist party members at the end of WWII.And those lists were used to screen out communists, while nazis and nazi sympathizers (which were in high number in Nazi-collaborative states like Romania, Ukraine and others, were able to pass through. The only thing that might raise the alarm bells was if a Nazi collaborator had been a commander at one of the prison death camps. Other than that, the US Government brought over all of the Nazi scientists they could rustle up (Operation Paperclip) and all through the post-war years, were paranoid and encourage paranoia among Hollywood and other entertainment media of reds under the beds. So, I noticed that the 2nd generation of Eastern Europeans I grew up and went to school with were all anti-communists, but that didn't mean that those who stayed behind were also anti-communists! 

From my background, my father was an older WWII enlistee than most (age 27) so he took more notice of the shift in media messaging about Russians and about communism after the War ended than most of his fellow soldiers who were 18 to 20 years old when they first went to Europe. Sure, the pro-Russian newsreels and even regular movies didn't say much of anything about communism, but they sure as hell were happy that the Russians were winning the war against the Germans on the Eastern Front! But that all ended as soon as the war was over....like it was a planned doublecross. 

3.If you read Marx's grand work - Capital, he makes a case that capitalism inevitably leads towards monopolization. In the 20th century, there were several reform movements that broke up monopolies....starting with Teddy Roosevelt, who felt he had to act against Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt and other monopolists and break up their industries to restore competition. But the reactionary right started creating libertarian propaganda that demanded an end to all government regulation and interference in business practices. So is the present day consolidation of business an error, or just an inevitability, because the leading capitalists decided in the 60's that they needed to start finding ways to use their money to overwhelm a democratic system.

I will pretend that I did not read the second point by rationalizing that you are so far brainwashed and I won't take it personally, you are just a communist agitator that does not understand the value of hard work and having original ideas to produce and deliver a service to another human being.

I spent some time to understand along the years why human beings commit such atrocities towards other human beings and I came to the conclusion it all boils down to the group mentality.

It does not matter if it is communism, fascism, white nationalism, black nationalism, Asian nationalism, Hindu theocracy, Muslim theocracy even Buddhism nationalism/theocracy in Myanmar . Some are reactions to others and is hard to say who started it all. The chicken or the egg ?

People at the individual level are good, but if they go in an organized group combined with some economic insecurity they commit atrocities that's precisely why focusing on the individual is the key to freedom and of understanding between people. 

The main goal of the communist above and their fascist brethren is to recruit people, is to take away your individual freedom and to become a sheep. My advice to every free independent out there is to move along and stay alert because we have a saying back home: "If you get in the middle of two pigs fighting, you might become one". 

Edited by Independent1986
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14 hours ago, Marocc said:

Like the mask wearers?

Yes, because religious oppression of women is EXACTLY the same as taking basic safety precautions during a world-wide pandemic.  :rolleyes:

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13 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

black nationalism

Nice analysis there.  Although above, appears to be the one flaw in your argument.

In other words it is potentially an, oxy-moron, in light of the reality that we all know Negros live within. They are the worst treated Race, in North America, so it is unreasonable to claim that such a group is committing atrocities toward other humans ---within a land where they basically only fight for, equality, as the most-oppressed people in the nation.

DISCLAIMER: I am not including street thugs' criminal acts of, survival, as they foot thru racist society they have given up on.

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35 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, because religious oppression of women is EXACTLY the same as taking basic safety precautions during a world-wide pandemic.  :rolleyes:

Interesting.

Do you think it is reasonable, to account for dreadful realities which COVID 19 masks have created ---unlike religious oppression of women? Such as how, brilliant criminals realize that all people wearing masks, now makes it easier for them to commit crimes without being caught nor accurately identified??

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28 minutes ago, Tdot said:

Interesting.

Do you think it is reasonable, to account for dreadful realities which COVID 19 masks have created ---unlike religious oppression of women? Such as how, brilliant criminals realize that all people wearing masks, now makes it easier for them to commit crimes without being caught nor accurately identified??

I don't understand what you're asking.  Some have claimed that wearing masks during the pandemic somehow legitimizes religious oppression of women.  Now you are conflating 3 things - basic precautions of wearing face masks during the pandemic, oppression of women and and criminals who wear face coverings to commit crimes.

Those are 3 separate  concerns.

In no way do I believe face masks during a pandemic legitimizes the other 2.  

We're going to have to come up with a way of balancing covid face masks with security concerns when things open up again.  Those are legitimate concerns.  I dont' believe in systematic oppression of women by requiring them to cover their faces in public, like a walking apology for being female.

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45 minutes ago, Goddess said:

We're going to have to come up with a way of balancing covid face masks with security concerns when things open up again.  Those are legitimate concerns.  

Now this, is beautiful.

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Yes, because religious oppression of women is EXACTLY the same as taking basic safety precautions during a world-wide pandemic.  :rolleyes:

Gosh Godess I need you to wear a mask... I just  can not be sure if you have Covid 19 or its your beauty,  but either way you are deadly. God told me. Oy.  We must turn this idiot thread into a positive spin. Good Gawd Godess some days I could swear the entire world is a large mental home for the deranged and I am running around naked in it looking for a diaper and people are chasing me with magnifying glasses yelling, " really is that all you got"?

Not to worry Godess, the stats show men are more likely to get Covid 19 more than women. Clearly God is a lesbian and planned all this. I should have never annoyed Jody Foster and told her she walked like Clint Eastwood.

 

Edited by Rue
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On 4/24/2020 at 9:01 AM, Goddess said:

We do.  Again, no one has said there is NO racism in Canada.  But anyone who is truly concerned about racism, does not START with Canada unless they have an agenda.

That's like the climate emergency people who focus on Canada, while having nothing to say about China.

It's easy to bully Canada on things like climate and racism because we take those accusations to heart and actually do something about them.  Not so easy to bully China - China doesn't give a rip what anyone says about it.

Well put, Goddess.

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On 4/24/2020 at 1:16 PM, Goddess said:

Agree.  To say that every white person has only succeeded because of their skin colour, is asinine.  All that does is tell some in minority categories that they are "owed" success no matter what they do and if they don't get it, they get to blame it on racism.

Is there racism?  Ya.

Do some minorities get shut out because of their skin colour?  Of course.

Should I feel bad because I have a good job, which I worked hard for - pulled myself out of a poverty-stricken, stuck in a religious cult childhood, got an education and hustled and moved to where jobs were and created my own job - Sorry but I don't.  I earned my place.  Skin colour may not have been what held me back, but other things were, and they were just as hard to overcome.  Everybody has things to overcome in life.

Another great post, Goddess.

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On 5/7/2020 at 9:22 PM, Independent1986 said:

I will pretend that I did not read the second point by rationalizing that you are so far brainwashed and I won't take it personally, you are just a communist agitator that does not understand the value of hard work and having original ideas to produce and deliver a service to another human being.

 

Right! So, it's us socialists who are selfish/NOT you freedumblovin free enterprizers, whom if you can't see the faults of a system based on greed and accumulation, you never will!

And I've been working all of my adult life, so now at 63, I have been planning to retire from my "value of hard work" while I am still healthy and devote my time to work I enjoy/rather than work that I have to do to earn my living!

That aside, those making accusations of brainwashing...a term hardly in use today, are more likely the ones who have had their minds cleansed and filled with corporate state propaganda.

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On 5/7/2020 at 6:15 PM, Marocc said:

It is explicitly mentioned in the hadiths for one. I can't say anything about the Quran.

For example:

 
 

"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) wearing thin clothes. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to his face and hands.

Abu Dawud said: This is a mursal tradition (i.e. the narrator who transmitted it from 'Aishah is missing) Khalid b. Duraik did not see 'Aishah."

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/34/85

Thanks for the source. 

Out of curiosity, do you live in Canada, or some other western- non-Muslim majority nation? I ask, because where I live in Canada, I rarely see any women wearing a full burqa or niqaab out in public. Most that I might see are likely visitors, not residents living and working (if that's possible) in the area.  It seems like a burden foisted on women to keep them at home most of the time, subjected and dependent on men. Otherwise, why would a man be demanding that women cover everything except for their faces and hands? 

In the west, I guess that .....  especially younger women are trying to find a compromise to honor their heritage while being able to function in a non-Muslim society. So, they wear some combination of hijab covering their hair, and dress more or less the same as other young women out working or going to school etc..

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5 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Right! So, it's us socialists who are selfish/NOT you freedumblovin free enterprizers, whom if you can't see the faults of a system based on greed and accumulation, you never will!

And I've been working all of my adult life, so now at 63, I have been planning to retire from my "value of hard work" while I am still healthy and devote my time to work I enjoy/rather than work that I have to do to earn my living!

That aside, those making accusations of brainwashing...a term hardly in use today, are more likely the ones who have had their minds cleansed and filled with corporate state propaganda.

Nobody said that the current system is perfect, you are just offering an alternative that goes against human nature having been tried several times in history. Give it up already, human beings do not have the DNA to be communist. 

I can already see your answer (like any student brainwashed by his social sciences Marxist professor would say): "Yah but those are dictators, that was not real communism, it was not Marx's writings". What you fail to understand is that Marx's writings lead to dictatorship because human beings at the individual level are unique and competitive. 

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9 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Right! So, it's us socialists who are selfish/NOT you freedumblovin free enterprizers, whom if you can't see the faults of a system based on greed and accumulation, you never will!

Everyone sees the flaws of capitalism and free-enterprise, which is why almost everyone has agreed to temper it with a degree of public assistance and income redistribution for the poor.

What socialists don't ever seem to realize, however, is that their system is based on a kind of elitist academic viewpoint of how society ought to operate which completely overlooks human nature and behaviour. Whenever they try they find they have to use brutal, authoritarian 'persuasion' on the people, and this inevitably leads to a shithole of poverty and brutality.

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6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Everyone sees the flaws of capitalism and free-enterprise, which is why almost everyone has agreed to temper it with a degree of public assistance and income redistribution for the poor.

That's a pathetic excuse.

7 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Out of curiosity, do you live in Canada, or some other western- non-Muslim majority nation?

No to the former, yes to the latter. I do not cover my face. The command is from God. Clothes don't prevent a woman from going outside nor from going to work.

7 hours ago, Right To Left said:

especially younger women are trying to find a compromise to honor their heritage while being able to function in a non-Muslim society.

Succumbing to the glitter of the material world, that is. What would prevent her from "functioning" properly while behaving like a Muslim?

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21 minutes ago, Marocc said:

And where does Capitalism lead to?

So far it's led to lifting billions of people around the world out of extreme poverty.

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35 minutes ago, Marocc said:

That's a pathetic excuse.

It wasn't an excuse. It was a fact. I can see why facts would alarm you, being a dedicated Islamist and all.

 

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On 4/23/2020 at 1:02 PM, dialamah said:

To be fair, she didn't assert that at all.  She merely asked why some Canadians are loudly racist.  However, most responses have pointed out that racism in Canada is less than many other places.  

Who cares if some Canadians are racist? What's it to anybody? Are there some people who lose sleep over it? Everyone has a right to be a racist if they so choose. There are some people who are racist, and they must wonder as to why most Canadians are not racist? Indeed, racism is a lot bigger in non-white countries. Canada is a wuss compared to some other racist countries in the world. ;)

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11 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Right! So, it's us socialists who are selfish/NOT you freedumblovin free enterprizers, whom if you can't see the faults of a system based on greed and accumulation, you never will!

And I've been working all of my adult life, so now at 63, I have been planning to retire from my "value of hard work" while I am still healthy and devote my time to work I enjoy/rather than work that I have to do to earn my living!

That aside, those making accusations of brainwashing...a term hardly in use today, are more likely the ones who have had their minds cleansed and filled with corporate state propaganda.

From what I have noticed over the years of my life is that socialism and communism does not work. The countries that have gone socialist or communist all eventually end up going bankrupt and the people who end up living under those two ism's start to become slaves and become poor to those systems, and lose their right to their freedom of speech and assembly.

Sure capitalism has it's fault, but at least one is pretty much free to say and do as they please living in a capitalist country. You seem to enjoy and like mocking and knocking capitalism a lot but where would you rather live? In a freedom loving country or a communist country? Although, I should not use Canada as an example of a free country anymore, as Canada is fast becoming another socialist or even communist country. We see that today in Canada where Canadians are being taxed to death, more government intrusion and involvement in our lives,, and many attacks on our right to our freedom of speech and assembly, and the right to bear arms. Brainwashing is quite prevalent living in socialist and communist countries.

I believe that Switzerland has the best system of government of all other countries in the world. In Switzerland, the people have the right to Citizen Initiated Referendums, the right to recall, where the people get to say how things will be done, and not the politicians, whom we all should know by now, f things up more than do things right. I doubt that Canadians will ever see the day when they can have those two mentioned above implemented into our Canadian constitution. Our politicians would rather die a thousand deaths than give the power back to we the people where it truly does belong. ;)

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