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Trumps Coronovirus Force ratings so high Trump to keep on to work on election.

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It is interesting to see how  he makes his decisions.   Whiplash    is an understatement. He seems to operate on the whims he wakes p with   in the morning. 

He seems to  operate as if  the role of POTUS is one   gigantic   TV series    where the ratings are all that matter.  

Now that  his valet  has the virus.......  ,  will be  interesting  to see what he does.   besides getting angry  and taking it out on  those around him or  on Twitter.

 

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6 hours ago, Pacifica77 said:

It is interesting to see how  he makes his decisions.   Whiplash    is an understatement. He seems to operate on the whims he wakes p with   in the morning. 

He seems to  operate as if  the role of POTUS is one   gigantic   TV series    where the ratings are all that matter.  

Now that  his valet  has the virus.......  ,  will be  interesting  to see what he does.   besides getting angry  and taking it out on  those around him or  on Twitter.

 

This is a pretty deceitful post. Stop flailing, please.

Release your deceitful objectives from, Dem's insanity, then you'll see how Trump Derangement Syndrome has consumed your miserable life.

Yes.

Even a 5yr-old knows that President Trump wouldve just been kidding around even if he did say a CDC expert (Fauci) is being put in charge of negro-vote gathering. The Dems have you and @godzilla so, uptight, to whereas Trump can't even make jokes without you spazzing out.

Edited by Tdot

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51 minutes ago, Tdot said:

This is a pretty deceitful post. Stop flailing, please.

Release your deceitful objectives from, Dem's insanity, then you'll see how Trump Derangement Syndrome has consumed your miserable life.

Yes.

Even a 5yr-old knows that President Trump wouldve just been kidding around even if he did say a CDC expert (Fauci) is being put in charge of negro-vote gathering. The Dems have you and @godzilla so, uptight, to whereas Trump can't even make jokes without you spazzing out.

I am sorry, you feel that way.   You are obviously a Trump supporter..........and that is your choice.   Some of us  see hi for what he is.  It has nothing to do with  party lines.......but everything to do with  the fact  that he is a troubled man.  And an ineffective leader.  He is a showman.and has not met a camera  he did not like. He is vengeful   and has destroyed  a lot of people's careers...... in a cold   and indifferent way. People  do not deserve to be treated the way he treats them. 

 

one example of  mismanagement:  It was not necessary to sideline the CDC  they way Trump did.   It is not nec  to  lash out  at the WHO........  in the time of crisis.....when the whole world needs to pull together.  This is not a time for binary thinking or behavior. He tries to paint a rosy picture  , which only minimizes  the severity of the virus.    Why does he have to get in the middle of everything......when it is the experts that need to run this  situation.  he is not a doctor.  He is not a virologist. He is just a TV personality. He should be taking the advice from the experts.......instead of undermining them. ....with his own agenda. I realize that his supporters  are rather emphatic in their support of him.   But not everyone has  the same view of his performance. It is hoped  that he would  get his act together   and  learn t handle  situations other than the economy. This crisis is an opportunity for him......but   so  far  his actions  are less than exemplary.   The sad thing is  that he takes no responsibility  ....and has said as much. 

 

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14 hours ago, Pacifica77 said:

I am sorry, you feel that way.   You are obviously a Trump supporter..........and that is your choice.   Some of us  see hi for what he is.  It has nothing to do with  party lines.......but everything to do with  the fact  that he is a troubled man.  And an ineffective leader.  He is a showman.and has not met a camera  he did not like. He is vengeful   and has destroyed  a lot of people's careers...... in a cold   and indifferent way. People  do not deserve to be treated the way he treats them. 

 

one example of  mismanagement:  It was not necessary to sideline the CDC  they way Trump did.   It is not nec  to  lash out  at the WHO........  in the time of crisis.....when the whole world needs to pull together.  This is not a time for binary thinking or behavior. He tries to paint a rosy picture  , which only minimizes  the severity of the virus.    Why does he have to get in the middle of everything......when it is the experts that need to run this  situation.  he is not a doctor.  He is not a virologist. He is just a TV personality. He should be taking the advice from the experts.......instead of undermining them. ....with his own agenda. I realize that his supporters  are rather emphatic in their support of him.   But not everyone has  the same view of his performance. It is hoped  that he would  get his act together   and  learn t handle  situations other than the economy. This crisis is an opportunity for him......but   so  far  his actions  are less than exemplary.   The sad thing is  that he takes no responsibility  ....and has said as much. 

 

Some of us are President Trump supporters because we refuse to do like, you and @godzilla did, when letting deceitful MSM destroy your fairmindedness and also dupe you into falsely defining what Trump does and what he represents.

For example, you say he's a troubled man, but you won't dare accept it if you are intelligently/factually proven wrong on every front you hallucinate there ---you instead, will get angry at me for pointing out your falsehoods and how MSM bamboozled you.

He's successfully done things no U.S. President has dared even tried in 40+ years including deal making that = best economy in 50 years and challenging China like no USA President has done in 60+years ---oh, but the Dems told you that it makes him an ineffective leader. lol

He is a showman, because he uses his bullypulpit to fight back against illegalities and falsehoods that you are okay with? He is a showman, because he's painted that way by his enemies who happen to own 85% of the main stream media cameras portraying him as a showman --yes, just more facts you hate to think about.

You say he destroyed a lot of peoples' careers, but then you stay silent on how the Dem's ended a lovely woman's political career just, last week, all because she thanked President Trump for saving her life in her fight against covid 19 yes the Dem's decree is that she now has to switch political parties if she wants to be reelected. Wow. You ever see Trump pull stuff that evil, on people? 

Plus you are okay with how the Dem's have plotted to destroy the career of all Trump comrades who would not help Dems destroy Trump ---none of Trump's jailed friends, are in jail for acts regarding protecting Trump. tsk tsk.  Look at the news just yesterday/the Dems filed false docx with the FISA court and they illegally entrapped Gen. Flynn to get him sent to prison. And you are okay with these "cold and indifferent" evils ---yet you are quick to say Trump is the one who destroyed careers.  It's laughable. 

And you're dead wrong that he mismanaged anything ---you're even more, wrong, for refusing to take ownership of the Dems' occupying the nation with an impeachment hoax (SEP - JAN) when the nation could've then had all hands on deck fighting against COVID 19 ... that is the most colossal atrocity but MSM has psyched you into being silent about it.

Plus the Dems have duped you into being deceitful about how he treats his Taskforce.  He's never even once, disturbed the recommendations and orders the Taskforce came with. He has a right to criticize and critique, but he never changed them. The Dems fooled you into thinking that him giving his coarse opinion, changed any doctor's orders put forth.  That is your irresponsibility, not Trumps. Birx and Fauci are still there and standing next to Trump, so you have to be honest with yourself about how that cancels out Dem's deceit which has hoodwinked you so far.

Edited by Tdot

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2 hours ago, Rue said:

Get off the board its over. Take your fake names and go home.

Who are you talking to??   

That is  not a very friendly  post  .  Did not realize this was a Trump supporter board. where   Other views are not welcome....... and treated with disdain.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Rue said:

Get off the board its over. Take your fake names and go home.

 

Edited by Tdot

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19 hours ago, Tdot said:

This is a pretty deceitful post. Stop flailing, please.

Release your deceitful objectives from, Dem's insanity, then you'll see how Trump Derangement Syndrome has consumed your miserable life.

Yes.

Even a 5yr-old knows that President Trump wouldve just been kidding around even if he did say a CDC expert (Fauci) is being put in charge of negro-vote gathering. The Dems have you and @godzilla so, uptight, to whereas Trump can't even make jokes without you spazzing out.

Trump does not joke.  Are  we to assume he was joking when she entertained the idea  of injecting   disinfectant   to deal with the virus??   Funny thing....... Many took him seriously enough to actually  phone the  CDC   to   find out how to do it.      Some joke.

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21 minutes ago, Pacifica77 said:

  Are  we to assume he was joking when she entertained the idea  of injecting   disinfectant   to deal with the virus??   

Go look at the research he was illuminating.  It is real, although he did do some unwise exaggerating a tiny bit. Yes, he was joking only very slightly . Blame the Dems.

Because the Dems use their misinformation and propaganda, via the MSM, to cause Trump to resort to these unsavory tactics to fight back. I don't like what he does either, but I understand that it is necessary in order to counter the Dem's Deceit Doctrine he's up against.

Edited by Tdot

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2 minutes ago, Tdot said:

Go look at the research he was illuminating.  It is real, although he did do some unwise exaggerating a tiny bit. Yes, he was joking only very slightly . Blame the Dems.

Because the Dems use their misinformation and propaganda, via the MSM, to cause Trump to resort to these unsavory tactics to fight back. I don't like what he does either, but I understand that it is necessary in order to counter the Dem's Deceit Doctrine he's up against.

I beg to differ.  It is NOT  necessary at all.  It is HIS  style......and has been all his adult life.   He might have some good ideas.....but he blows it   due to the fact  he is inconsistent.  He has one opine one day,   and then does a 360  turn around.......depending on who  whispered in his ear  in the last ten minutes ..   he tends to  conflate, exaggerate,  pontificate,   and also distract.  None of it is nec  in a crisis.  When there is a crisis like we are living through.......  there is a need for  facts,  ......not embellishment   .

 

The  question is:  why is he so threatened by  the dems??  Why does he keep bringing up Obama??  He should be secure enough  in himself  to  handle  them in an intelligent  mature way without  resorting to   playground  & twitter bullying. 

 

HE  and HE alone sets he tone   for  his administration and the nation.

 

He had a very good  Virus  task force...........but as soon as  they  get  popular with the population..........he  wants to disban it........ even if i t makes no rational sense to d oit.  Then  he  changes his mind.....as  the positive   is reflection on him.......in his view....... He is a narcissist.  to  a pathological degree.  He is also paranoid.     and  thus cannot be objective.

 

 I know that avid Trump supporters do not want to hear this.    They  seem to take the same approach  that he does. Lash out   with out  regard to the fallout from such  lashing out.

It is a fascinating  psycho-social & cultural  dynamic.   It is  a fascinating  phase in US history.As  the post Trump era  will not be the same as the  pre Trump era. He is a forceful authoritarian personality.

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6 minutes ago, Pacifica77 said:

I know that avid Trump supporters do not want to hear this.    They  seem to take the same approach  that he does. Lash out   with out  regard to the fallout from such  lashing out.

 

...and I know that the Trump haters do not want to hear this:    Trump does these things because it works for him and his base of support.   Trump haters consistently fall for the bait, giving him more and more oxygen...even in other nations....like Canada.   

Lashing out is not unique to Trump...he just knows how to do it far better to get far more media attention. 

Hillary Clinton hid from the media....Trump has sex with it...and they love it.

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16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and I know that the Trump haters do not want to hear this:    Trump does these things because it works for him and his base of support.   Trump haters consistently fall for the bait, giving him more and more oxygen...even in other nations....like Canada.   

Lashing out is not unique to Trump...he just knows how to do it far better to get far more media attention. 

Hillary Clinton hid from the media....Trump has sex with it...and they love it.

Of course  he does it because it "works" f r him.and his base. You have no argument there ;-)

 

What you  are describing is game playing.   Yes......   that is what he does.  He plays for attention and  media focus.   You are right about that .  He is an attention   hog........and just cannot get enough.   Psychologically,  that is a  disorder. NARCISSISM.  I have never seen a case as obvious as him.

 

 Non Trump supporters........ have a say about him too.   It is not about hatred..........it is about observable behavior. that is not becoming to a POTUS. Some of us have higher expectations  from the leadership.   Rude and crude & arrogant does not cut it.  I feel  sorry for him........as he is way out of his depth.....but tries so hard to play the role anyhow.

 

 

Edited by Guest

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 Non Trump supporters........ have a say about him too.   It is not about hatred..........it is about observable behavior. that is not becoming to a POTUS. Some of us have higher expectations  from the leadership.   Rude and crude & arrogant does not cut it.  I feel  sorry for him........as he is way out of his depth.....but tries so hard to play the role anyhow.

 

Well, U.S. presidential history says otherwise....Trump is hardly the worst for demeanor and policy actions.   Trump is just another U.S. president.

Your expectations are your own, and not Trump's concern, especially if from another nation.  Trump's "style" has been consistent for decades...he is a very well known quantity in the United States and he leveraged his style to pull off one of the biggest political upsets in U.S. history.   Did you really expect him to change after more than 40 years of track record in U.S. culture  ?    That's just naive.

Trump will win or lose doing things his way, because that is the only way he knows.   Reacting to his antics is exactly what he wants and thrives on.

Canada's PM also tries to play a role....smug and ineffective....but Trump still matters more.

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1 hour ago, Pacifica77 said:

I beg to differ.  It is NOT  necessary at all.  It is HIS  style......and has been all his adult life.   He might have some good ideas.....but he blows it   due to the fact  he is inconsistent.  He has one opine one day,   and then does a 360  turn around.......depending on who  whispered in his ear  in the last ten minutes ..   he tends to  conflate, exaggerate,  pontificate,   and also distract.  None of it is nec  in a crisis.  When there is a crisis like we are living through.......  there is a need for  facts,  ......not embellishment   .

 

The  question is:  why is he so threatened by  the dems??  Why does he keep bringing up Obama??  He should be secure enough  in himself  to  handle  them in an intelligent  mature way without  resorting to   playground  & twitter bullying. 

 

HE  and HE alone sets he tone   for  his administration and the nation.

 

He had a very good  Virus  task force...........but as soon as  they  get  popular with the population..........he  wants to disban it........ even if i t makes no rational sense to d oit.  Then  he  changes his mind.....as  the positive   is reflection on him.......in his view....... He is a narcissist.  to  a pathological degree.  He is also paranoid.     and  thus cannot be objective.

 

 I know that avid Trump supporters do not want to hear this.    They  seem to take the same approach  that he does. Lash out   with out  regard to the fallout from such  lashing out.

It is a fascinating  psycho-social & cultural  dynamic.   It is  a fascinating  phase in US history.As  the post Trump era  will not be the same as the  pre Trump era. He is a forceful authoritarian personality.

lol @ why he's so Paranoid and threatened by the Dems. Here, let me remind you some realities you'd like to forget:

  • The 'tv screen' is the greatest influencer upon the human psyche living within any 1st-World nation. And the Dems control 85% of the MSM, and use it to paint false pictures of Trump which perfectly fool people like you. 
  • the Dems promised to impeach him the day after he beat Hillary in 2016.
  • the Dems launched a Russian misinformation scheme, then tried to pin it on Trump to bring him down, while
  • the Dems impeached Trump for exactly, obeying, the USA Constitution when he mentioned Biden family's  corruption, to the Ukraine President.
  • the Dems have sent several of Trump's comrades to prison, for non-Trump crimes, all because they wouldn't help Dems illegally bring Trump down.
  • the Dems now want to try to impeach Trump over his response to the COVID 19 crisis.

How can you not be, ashamed, of the Dem party raping America?

Edited by Tdot

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, U.S. presidential history says otherwise....Trump is hardly the worst for demeanor and policy actions.   Trump is just another U.S. president.

Your expectations are your own, and not Trump's concern, especially if from another nation.  Trump's "style" has been consistent for decades...he is a very well known quantity in the United States and he leveraged his style to pull off one of the biggest political upsets in U.S. history.   Did you really expect him to change after more than 40 years of track record in U.S. culture  ?    That's just naive.

Trump will win or lose doing things his way, because that is the only way he knows.   Reacting to his antics is exactly what he wants and thrives on.

Canada's PM also tries to play a role....smug and ineffective....but Trump still matters more.

Of course Trump matters more  to YOU........as he should be.  When one  likes bully tactics in their leader..........it stands to reason  that  someone like  CDA PM would appear  ineffective. 

 

But  back to the virus  and the handling of same.  

 

Do  you think Trump has handled  this crisis as well  as  he should have??

 

After all  he claims to be the world leader........so  the world has expectations of him. He sets the tone and example.

bTW: Trump is used to playing roles.  He is a  TV showman. No one expected him to change.....not at his age.  But one expected him to learn the job as well as he could have........but he came with his agenda   and decided to change Washington.  and he has.  In your view , is it for the better??

and yes....he is a master manipulator. This crisis should be bringing ut the best in him .......leadership wise.  He  has  some good people around him......but  can't let go of center stage......and let them do their job. 

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22 minutes ago, Tdot said:

lol @ why he's so Paranoid and threatened by the Dems. Here, let me remind you some realities you'd like to forget:

  • The 'tv screen' is the greatest influencer upon the human psyche living within any 1st-World nation. And the Dems control 85% of the MSM, and use it to paint false pictures of Trump which perfectly fool people like you. 
  • the Dems promised to impeach him the day after he beat Hillary in 2016.
  • the Dems launched a Russian misinformation scheme, then tried to pin it on Trump to bring him down, while
  • the Dems impeached Trump for exactly, obeying, the USA Constitution when he mentioned Biden family's  corruption, to the Ukraine President.
  • the Dems have sent several of Trump's comrades to prison, for non-Trump crimes, all because they wouldn't help Dems illegally bring Trump down.
  • the Dems now want to try to impeach Trump over his response to the COVID 19 crisis.

How can you not be, ashamed, of the Dem party raping America?

 I am ashamed  of BOTH parties. Neither one is living up to the   values  they PREACH  and advertiser. Only one value matters to both......POWER  . They just  display  it in different ways.

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34 minutes ago, Pacifica77 said:

Of course Trump matters more  to YOU........as he should be.  When one  likes bully tactics in their leader..........it stands to reason  that  someone like  CDA PM would appear  ineffective.

 

I don't think you understand my point....Donald Trump dominates topics in this forum even when they about Canada.   Trump dominates Canadian media as well with his "Trumpian" ways.   I have never seen a U.S. president consistently command so much attention from Canada or other nations.   It is remarkable regardless of what one may personally think about Trump.

The real question is why Trump matters so much to Canadians.   (Trudeau has been criticized as ineffective in Canada regardless of Trump.)

 

Quote

But  back to the virus  and the handling of same.  

Do  you think Trump has handled  this crisis as well  as  he should have??

 

No...he should have followed his instincts and shut down all travel much sooner...instead he was called a "waycist" and backed down.    The CDC bungled testing in the beginning, so that is on Trump too.    He has still done "better" than several other leaders based on mortality rates (e.g. Europe), and correctly recognizes that the lockdowns are more destructive than the disease....voters are responding to this reality.

Other federal and state limits put in place by design would have limited more drastic action by any U.S. president, not just Trump.

 

Quote

After all  he claims to be the world leader........so  the world has expectations of him. He sets the tone and example.

 

No, the world claims he is the free world leader because it has none.   Trump is "America First"...not the "World First".    He is only America's leader, and put the world on notice from day one that he would not play the game as before (i.e. "post WW2 order").  Canada and NATO freaked out.

 

Quote

bTW: Trump is used to playing roles.  He is a  TV showman. No one expected him to change.....not at his age.  But one expected him to learn the job as well as he could have........but he came with his agenda   and decided to change Washington.  and he has.  In your view , is it for the better??

and yes....he is a master manipulator. This crisis should be bringing ut the best in him .......leadership wise.  He  has  some good people around him......but  can't let go of center stage......and let them do their job. 

 

Yes...it is for the better...because Trump is a change agent, even with his rude and crude methods.   That is what he was elected to do....break things in Washington as a populist president, angering the entrenched politicos of D.C.    Trump is a marvelous bastard that way, and it is quite refreshing to see, if only for a single term.   His appointments for federal courts will have the most lasting impact.

Canadians and other nationals do not know Trump as well as most (older) Americans...he goes way back to the 1970's public eye and was far better known than the Clintons, Bushes, or Obama.    He is exactly what his supporters (and haters) expected him to be....more authentic even when he "lies" (other career politicians label those as "flip-flops").

 

 

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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52 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

even when he "lies" (other career politicians label those as "flip-flops").

 

...or...

perhaps, you too, are comatose from Trump Derangement Syndrome which you accurately described here re: how it haunts deceitful Dems??

It potentially has left you incapable of being fair here by deeming a "flip-flop" as something respectful ---like receiving more info so to fairly make a better-informed decision. But instead, you say he lies.

That's not President Trump's fault, that is your unfair mindset. Which prevents you from commending him for responsibly gathering additional info that fairly changed his mind ---thereby helped him make a better-informed opinion.

Edited by Tdot

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Trump was well known  outside the US.   And not very favorably.

'

'In a way : Trump  IS  the US.   and vice versa. He is the embodiment of many  US attitudes   and culture. Yes..of course he is a conversation  topic.  His  bizarre and attention seeking behavior  sees to that.  He does that deliberately.......

and yes...he is a change agent..... No question there....... but   it is is motives that  could be question;ed. He tends to operate  on the What is in it for him"... even if it is just a photo   Op.

America first  translates into Trump first.

 

What is troubling is  his lack of empathy, compassion,   and  basic human feelings  .   People  are people...... and his abusive  behavior (verbal and  firings)......are cruel.    There is a cruelty to him that  is disturbing. It is not  role playing  it is the real him.

Edited by Guest

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1 minute ago, Tdot said:

...or...

perhaps...You also, are comatose from Trump Derangement Syndrome which you accurately described here as it haunts deceitful Dems??

It potentially has left you incapable of being fair here by deeming a "flip-flop" as something respectful -like receiving more info so to fairly make a better-informed decision, as you say he lies. That's not President Trump's, that is your unfair mindset. Which prevents you from commending him for responsibly gathering additional info that fairly changed his mind ---thereby helped him make a better-informed opinion.

 

No, it is just a longer view of American political history and dynamics.   All U.S. presidents "lie"...it is part of the job description.    Donald Trump is just another U.S. president, and should not be held to a different standard.   

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57 minutes ago, Tdot said:

...or...

perhaps, you too, are comatose from Trump Derangement Syndrome which you accurately described here re: how it haunts deceitful Dems??

It potentially has left you incapable of being fair here by deeming a "flip-flop" as something respectful ---like receiving more info so to fairly make a better-informed decision. But instead, you say he lies.

That's not President Trump's fault, that is your unfair mindset. Which prevents you from commending him for responsibly gathering additional info that fairly changed his mind ---thereby helped him make a better-informed opinion.

Are you playing  mind-games??    gaslighting ?? ;-)

Edited by Guest

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Just now, Pacifica77 said:

Trump was well known  outside the US.   And not very favorably.

'In a way : Trump  IS  the US.   and vice versa. He is the embodiment of many  US attitudes   and culture. Yes..of course he is a conversation  topic.  His  bizarre and attention seeking behavior  sees to that.  He does that deliberately.......

and yes...he is a change agent..... No question there....... but   it is is motives that  could be question;ed. He tends to operate  on the What is in it for him"... even if it is just a photo   Op.

America first  translates into Trump first.

 

So what is the problem ?    JFK nearly started a thermonuclear war after trying to invade Cuba and escalating the war in Vietnam, but he is a beloved president.

All presidents are questioned...from many directions.    

America should always be about America first.....even Obama thought so (" Buy American").

 

Quote

What is troubling is  his lack of empathy, compassion,   and  basic human feelings  .   People  are people...... and his abusive  behavior (verbal and  firings)......are cruel.    There is a cruelty to him that  is disturbing. It is not  role playing  it is the real him.

 

Again...so what ?    Trump is not the first "cruel" president....Andrew Jackson and FDR had far worse policies and impact on real lives.    Some people are so triggered by Trump's antics they cannot have a more balanced view based on actual American history.     Trump drives them nuts....because they let him do it.

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28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So what is the problem ?    JFK nearly started a thermonuclear war after trying to invade Cuba and escalating the war in Vietnam, but he is a beloved president.

All presidents are questioned...from many directions.    

America should always be about America first.....even Obama thought so (" Buy American").

 

 

Again...so what ?    Trump is not the first "cruel" president....Andrew Jackson and FDR had far worse policies and impact on real lives.    Some people are so triggered by Trump's antics they cannot have a more balanced view based on actual American history.     Trump drives them nuts....because they let him do it

Indeed....so what??   Maybe he drives some people nuts........ but  I doubt   it. I think he is such a personality  that his personality over shadows his  efforts.......

 

I do think he could have done a much better job   about the virus issue.  A leader should  set an example.....of behavior    and evidence  of what  is recommended by the  Health experts.   This is a medical  crisis...... 

He does not even follow his own guidelines.  ........and should be wearing a mask when he greets people. Particularly now.....with two staffers   resting positive.  Did he not meet with some elderly  people today........ Why did  he not wear a mask ........as they are the vulnerable group. Show some consideration.......for goodness sake.

He does make a  good  c ease  study  n psychology....... ..

 

America first??   sure......why not. ?  But stay out of other nations   as well.  New alliances will for   excluding the US.   Not a biggie.  It would be different....but that is life......and change is the constant in life.

Edited by Guest

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