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The case for a mandatory tracking app

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5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We could get South Korea to design and manage our tracking system for us...sort of the way we should have gotten Norway to manage our oil decades ago. 

There you go again  delegating your need to think for yourself to someone else.  What prevents you from looking at the pros and cons of any issue let alone apps? 

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7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We could get South Korea to design and manage our tracking system for us...sort of the way we should have gotten Norway to manage our oil decades ago. 

Why would I want a foreign government or company have access to our data?

There should be privacy laws protecting all of our data, but there never will be.

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10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

So the COVID-19 tracking app falsely states someone was there when a bank was being robbed.  Leads to a conviction in the absence of any other evidence.

Let me know when that happens and I'll join you on the barricades.  I'll even bring sandwiches.

You engage in a deliberatey absurd  sounding assumption as to how a medical tracking app for Covid 19 might be abused to try bellittle any concern that there could be  abuse of Covid 19  obtained information.

Your exercise of assuming potential abuse of power will only occur in cirumstances you assume is subjective and  self-serving to your argument and not based on actual facts. Therefore your example is meaningless as it can not be proven or disproved. It is also illogical to assume actual abuses of power can only be speculated by you let alone using the circumstances you did.

As well assuming only the person tracked might be exposed to abuse of government is premature. A scenario of abusing medical information could  also possibly arise from using  the information obtained from one or more  sujects tracked to justify violating the rights of  another individual or individuals other then the ones tracked.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The safety lies with the governed, not the constitution...

Which is something I've been saying for years. Yet, curiously, you decided it was the piece of paper which was important in this case.

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2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No conservative in their right mind would ever condone this BS.

You wouldn't know, not being a conservative.

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Just now, Argus said:

Which is something I've been saying for years. Yet, curiously, you decided it was the piece of paper which was important in this case.

 

No I didn't...and it is not paper.   

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27 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why would I want a foreign government or company have access to our data?

There should be privacy laws protecting all of our data, but there never will be.

Let's be honest. Our government can't even protect ITS data from foreign governments. The computer systems used by 90% of the federal government are based on software written in the 1960s and 1970s with Cobol. Their hardware is mostly obsolete, and their security is a joke.

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19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why would I want a foreign government or company have access to our data?

 

He hasn't given much thought to that and many other possible concerns on this thread. I contend he and Argus need to slow down. 

Yes we need to track diseases of course. Early detection is the key of course. The issue they have not given thought to is how and why our government  will obtain info about us let alone guarantee it won't abuse that info.

They also fail to address how and why they feel the tracking can not be done by informed consent disclosure as opposed to mandatory disclosure.

They also fail to address why the info must be done by an app.

They also fail to address how they can guarantee thecspp won't be hacked into.

I believe the solution will ultimately involve preventative testing like we do with colon cancer or blood  tests when we go to the doctor.  That will require we be educated so we engage in the testing voluntarily.

The thread assumes the Charter Of Rights can be violated in favour of state power imposed on us for the public good. That is a huge legal assumption let alone assumes nurses and doctors will force themselves on people as state agents.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Download the app today !

 

 

It's funny how you like to talk about sheep. But there have been masses of sheep in your cities which have marched out against the lockdown largely based on some websites set up by a pair of gun nuts who think the NRA is too liberal, and goaded on by a few tweets from the fat orange guy. That's all it took to get people marching into your state capitals with guns demanding an end to the lockdown and blocking intersections outside hospitals to keep ambulances out.

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2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Let's be honest. Our government can't even protect ITS data from foreign governments. The computer systems used by 90% of the federal government are based on software written in the 1960s and 1970s with Cobol. Their hardware is mostly obsolete, and their security is a joke.

Oh well then in that case give them my medical info.

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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No I didn't...and it is not paper.   

"Not good enough....make the case in legislative process and constitutional frameworks."

That was your argument. And when I pointed out your government, administration and Republican party ignore all that you weaseled out and said it was 'the people' not the constitution.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

It's funny how you like to talk about sheep. But there have been masses of sheep in your cities which have marched out against the lockdown largely based on some websites set up by a pair of gun nuts who think the NRA is too liberal, and goaded on by a few tweets from the fat orange guy. That's all it took to get people marching into your state capitals with guns demanding an end to the lockdown and blocking intersections outside hospitals to keep ambulances out.

 

They are the opposite of sheep....nice try.

Clue for you:  THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY MANDATORY APP FOR COVID-19 IN NORTH AMERICA

 

 

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

"Not good enough....make the case in legislative process and constitutional frameworks."

That was your argument. And when I pointed out your government, administration and Republican party ignore all that you weaseled out and said it was 'the people' not the constitution.

 

Which is exactly what I said...."We The People"...it is a foreign concept to you in Canada, remember ?

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2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Privacy is over rated to a certain degree. How are my medical records of any interest to anyone but my Doctor and myself. If they were printed on the front page of the Globe and Mail, would that have the slightest impact on my life, good or bad? I can't think of anything in my life that would be of interest to anyone...except for those times on Saturday nights in Calgary...but then nobody knows about that except...

In normal times I value my privacy, but not above life itself. While this global crisis lasts, I’d be willing to divulge my less than exciting activities at places like the Trap and Gill, now gone, alas.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/maritimes-themed-trap-and-gill-pub-closing-its-calgary-doors/

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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1 hour ago, Rue said:

The fact we are tracked does not make the tracking acceptable,  legal  or without potential abuse. No one denies tracking. The issue is, what do we do to assure the tracking is done with our informed consent and used only for the limited purpose we consented to.

That is not the issue you raised, counselor. I can't believe a guy who's a lawyer wades into an argument based on facts and logic, gets all emotional, starts insulting people. and then after multiple pages finally brings up something slightly relevant.

But you never raised something as simple as that before. Instead it was "If we have a tracking app the fascists will get us! Aaggghh! You're all fascist lovers! Aaagghh!" (Rue running around waving his arms in the air and shrieking).

But you ignore the fact you have no clue whether the current tracking is limited, nor any way to enforce your desires for it to be. And virtually none of it is informed since no one knows what it's even being used for.

We can certainly limit the use of a government tracking app, however, and even have neutral people overseeing that use. Thus it would be less of an invasion of our privacy than all the ones we currently have on our phones.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Oh...hell no !    Ratting each other out to the gubmint is another point of failure.

An attitude which helps keep crime high in black inner cities.

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57 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I would destroy my phone before installing a mandatory tracking app.

Our governments are liars, power-seekers, and can't be trusted.  They can't even design functional software to pay their own employees (Phoenix), I'm not going to trust them with my tracking data.  Don't blame me if people die because of it, blame them.

In a perfect world, if 100% privacy was guaranteed, the app secure from hacks etc., and contact from the app when a person is in contact with someone with COVID was automated and out of the hands of humans then maybe I'd consider it, but that will never ever happen.

Your current phone is tracking everywhere you go and passing that data to half a dozen different organizations. Your ISP is tracking everywhere you go online. Your credit card/debit card software tracks everything you spend money on. You have no idea who holds that data or how vulnerable it is to various government actors. And you don't care.

But you'd destroy your phone rather than let an anti-virus app be installed on it. Real clear thinking there.

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8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Which is exactly what I said...."We The People"...it is a foreign concept to you in Canada, remember ?

And yet you assume we the people are not capable of okaying a temporary tracking app during an epidemic, then booting it out afterward. So apparently you don't really have much confidence in the people.

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4 minutes ago, Argus said:

An attitude which helps keep crime high in black inner cities.

 

Sorry, but an app will not save you from your longstanding fear of "blacks" and crime either.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

And yet you assume we the people are not capable of okaying a temporary tracking app during an epidemic, then booting it out afterward. So apparently you don't really have much confidence in the people.

 

The sheep will....most others won't.   Stupid idea...

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13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

They are the opposite of sheep....nice try.

They are behaving exactly like sheep, provoked by a few web sites and a demented president and his tweets.

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Clue for you:  THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ANY MANDATORY APP FOR COVID-19 IN NORTH AMERICA

Clue for you. The retard states, otherwise known as Republican, who are opening up again despite disease infections rising, are likely going to bring many hospital systems to their knees and result in hundreds of thousands more deaths.

Edited by Argus

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Clue for you. The retard states, otherwise known as Republican, who are opening up again despite disease infections rising, are likely going to bring many hospital systems to their knees and result in hundreds of thousands more deaths.

 

So what ?   Better to die as a free man/woman than live as sheep.

LIVE FREE OR DIE !   (or go to Canada).

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