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This Years Deficit is Going to be Completely Off the Charts. Worst in Canadian History!


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8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

So what. Has nothing to do with the damage that was done. The virus is on its way out the door now anyway, and not to do with social distancing. It actually only made things worse, for all of us.

Having a vaccine can prevent further damage on Canadian economy. 

1.Trump is re-opening US without getting the outbreak under control, which Dr. Fauci warned might be  very dangerous.

2.Considering the close ties between Canadian economy with US's, Canada can't shutdown its border with US forever. Once the border is reopened, if Trump's reopening plan results a second wave as Dr. Fauci warned by the end of this year, Canada will face very difficult choice---save economy or save Canadians' lives. Even if the reopening plans in both US and Canada go well, since virus is still there, people will still feel unsafe and many sectors of economy won't come back to normal, and it also goes globally. Using words which conservatives may easily understand: the oil price won't back to normal..LOL

Only vaccines can cure all these problems and make economy truly back to normal.

Since there is no way to produce 7 billion doses vaccine in short time, which country gets a vaccine first, which country's economy will have advantage on truly reopening over others. This is why Trump recently has forgotten his Voodoo medicines Quinine and disinfectant but talks vaccine a lot.

 

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Vaccinate the vulnerable first, as they will be the ones most at risk and under quarantine the longest, because everyone else has to get back to work eventually to pay to protect the vulnerable and uphold the basic living standards required to maintain a civil society.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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59 minutes ago, Rue said:

In Canada we call them humans not monkeys. 

So this is how humans are treated in Canada? In cages for displaying?

 

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You remind me of a traveling penicillin salesman who spreads vd to increase his sales.

I remember some Trump supporters called Dr. Fauci a vaccine salesman after he didn't fully support Trump's reckless reopening plan....

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13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trudeau and Canada can put more faith in China to save the economy and stop ballooning deficits....it has worked so well.

Canada used to put faith on US to get medical supplies. But since Trump even doesn't want to share medical mask with Canadian doctors and nurses, how could you ask Trudeau to put faith on him to get vaccines for Canadian?

And you hear the post boy who Trump has named in charge of making vaccine. He said "a few million doses of vaccine by the end of 2020". A few million against 372 millions Americans, how many doses vaccine do you think that US would want to share with Canada even if Biden was the president? 

At least both EU and China have agreed to share their vaccines with other countries under WHO framework if they get succeed. US on the other hand, no words from Trump's mouth. I bet one of his true motive of cutting ties with WHO is to not share vaccine with other countries but use it as a bio-weapon. Traditional bio-weapons kill people so they are morally hardly to be used. Vaccines can work as weapons by saving lives of selected people and let others die, which almost has same effect of those killing bio-weapons but makes it easy to be accepted by persons like Trump.

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2 minutes ago, xul said:

At least both EU and China have agreed to share their vaccines with other countries under WHO framework if they get succeed. US on the other hand, no words from Trump's mouth.

 

False...as usual....Trump is already partnering with Germany, U.K., and Israel.

Canada can stick with China and enjoy more deficits and coronavirus....Canada will learn to love China so much.

China is the best supplier in the world...for viral pandemics.

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42 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

False...as usual....Trump is already partnering with Germany, U.K., and Israel.

 

This is what Trump called partnership.....

Coronavirus: anger in Germany at report Trump seeking exclusive vaccine deal

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German ministers have reacted angrily following reports US president Donald Trump offered a German medical company “large sums of money” for exclusive rights to a Covid-19 vaccine.

“Germany is not for sale,” economy minister Peter Altmaier told broadcaster ARD, reacting to a front page report in Welt am Sonntag newspaper headlined “Trump vs Berlin”.

The newspaper reported Trump offered $1bn to Tübingen-based biopharmaceutical company CureVac to secure the vaccine “only for the United States”.

As for China, I don't think it is a agreement between Canadian and Chinese governments. It may be either a commercial agreement between a Chinese vaccine firm and a Canadian vaccine research institute, or an international cooperation project under WHO vaccine developing frameworks which many parties may involved.

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3 hours ago, xul said:

So this is how humans are treated in Canada? In cages for displaying?

 

I remember some Trump supporters called Dr. Fauci a vaccine salesman after he didn't fully support Trump's reckless reopening plan....

That happens to be my cousin Xul. I recognize him. I will not purchase the vaccine from a Chinese source. Not unless its guaranteed not to be making a profit. Also China has billions to look after. Instead of exporting it for profit it needs to look after its people first then hopefully the needy in a charitable way. Excuse me but given how China has treated its doctors and people over this virus my confidence is low in the government not your scientists being competent. My disdain is towards the government not the people even then it is not against you personally just the government. You are a polite respectful forum member who I appreciate and blast because I respect you like hell. I only do it with people I respect. So there. And leave my cousin out of it.

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On 5/16/2020 at 4:25 PM, Army Guy said:

You know Robinhood was armed right, with out his weapons' he be just another wingnut dressed up in green tights, living in the trees...

That's hilarious coming from a wingnut dressed in green who spends half his time here whining about being sent into battle under-armed.  You do know you can make weapons from trees right? 

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6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

False...as usual....Trump is already partnering with Germany, U.K., and Israel.

Canada can stick with China and enjoy more deficits and coronavirus....Canada will learn to love China so much.

China is the best supplier in the world...for viral pandemics.

Canada should pursue partnerships with all countries and firms willing to share the vaccine in a socially responsible way that serves humanity rather than a single nationality.  We can distribute first to the vulnerable then ramp up production internationally.  Canada has its own researchers at work testing a vaccine.  There’s also tremendous work in London, Ontario using a mild form of dialysis to add antibodies to treat Covid patients.  Follow the science, best practices, and ethical sharing of effective treatment/vaccines.  I don’t care whether that comes from China, the US, UK, or anywhere else.  Humanity first.  

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22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada should pursue partnerships with all countries and firms willing to share the vaccine in a socially responsible way that serves humanity rather than a single nationality.  We can distribute first to the vulnerable then ramp up production internationally.  Canada has its own researchers at work testing a vaccine.  There’s also tremendous work in London, Ontario using a mild form of dialysis to add antibodies to treat Covid patients.  Follow the science, best practices, and ethical sharing of effective treatment/vaccines.  I don’t care whether that comes from China, the US, UK, or anywhere else.  Humanity first.  

 

That's great, but Canada is late to the game, even with China's help.   Several other nations already have trials underway...for humanity.

Welcome to the party....

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's great, but Canada is late to the game, even with China's help.   Several other nations already have trials underway...for humanity.

Welcome to the party....

Policies and results speak for themselves.  Canada has been handling the virus reasonably well. The research and work has been underway all along, which isn’t to take away from other important work happening elsewhere.  Such projects are not really national, though the National Research Council and funding of research chairs and universities helps.  They demonstrate the links of the brightest minds in biomedical research, which aren’t limited along racial or national lines.  Competing on such matters nationally is a mug’s game.  Any country that tries to hoard or muscle in on the work and trials underway will play a disruptive role.  

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Policies and results speak for themselves.  Canada has been handling the virus reasonably well. The research and work has been underway all along, which isn’t to take away from other important work happening elsewhere.  Such projects are not really national, though the National Research Council and funding of research chairs and universities helps.  They demonstrate the links of the brightest minds in biomedical research, which aren’t limited along racial or national lines.  Competing on such matters nationally is a mug’s game.  Any country that tries to hoard or muscle in on the work and trials underway will play a disruptive role.  

 

And yet, comparisons to other nations still telegraphs such a nationalist mindset (even when the data say otherwise).    Competition is not a "mug's game", but rather a very necessary way to accelerate further understanding of the virology/epidemiology, and development of therapies and vaccine candidates....with multiple paths to success.   Competition is good for all concerned.

Canada's growing deficits can surely accept more spending on R&D, something it has historically lacked compared to other OECD nations.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

And yet, comparisons to other nations still telegraphs such a nationalist mindset (even when the data say otherwise).    Competition is not a "mug's game", but rather a very necessary way to accelerate further understanding of the virology/epidemiology, and development of therapies and vaccine candidates....with multiple paths to success.   Competition is good for all concerned.

Canada's growing deficits can surely accept more spending on R&D, something it has historically lacked compared to other OECD nations.

But you have to tie R and D to other expenditures.  Our testing rate is pretty good.  Our expenditures on wage subsidies, covering wages up to 75% and providing the $2000 CERB for unemployed who don’t qualify for Employment Insurance, extended to August, are pretty generous programs. Governments are trying to find the right balance.  We have good research hospitals.

You’re right that nations should use metrics to see how their policies fair against other countries, but I wouldn’t get into competition over a vaccine.  It’s good to have multiple countries and companies working on different vaccines, but we’ll probably all have to get behind one or two eventually in order to scale up and distribute as soon as possible.  While there might be some financial gain for the first producers of patents, no company or country should practice extortionate pricing.  That’s unethical and it would not be forgotten by the world.  In fact, the economic repercussions would probably have bad long term consequences for such entities.

It’s in every country’s interests to tackle the virus worldwide.  

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

But you have to tie R and D to other expenditures.  Our testing rate is pretty good.  Our expenditures on wage subsidies, covering wages up to 75% and providing the $2000 CERB for unemployed who don’t qualify for Employment Insurance, extended to August, are pretty generous programs. Governments are trying to find the right balance.  We have good research hospitals.

 

That's all well and good, but if a significant number of employers go under even larger problems lay ahead.    The push to re-open now has a momentun of its own and destructive shutdowns will not be so willingly accepted.    Deficits will mount not only because of the "generous programs", but also because of sizable hits on the revenue side.   Pre-existing social welfare programs will be stressed.  Ultimately, government is not the long term solution, and businesses will have to recover in whatever new normal there is.

 

Quote

You’re right that nations should use metrics to see how their policies fair against other countries, but I wouldn’t get into competition over a vaccine.  It’s good to have multiple countries and companies working on different vaccines, but we’ll probably all have to get behind one or two eventually in order to scale up and distribute as soon as possible.  While there might be some financial gain for the first producers of patents, no company or country should practice extortionate pricing.  That’s unethical and it would not be forgotten by the world.  In fact, the economic repercussions would probably have bad long term consequences for such entities.

 

It is unclear which vaccine trials in Canada are specifically private sector investment (like Symvivo) or government funded/directed as in other nations in addition to private enterprise.   Partnership often begins with financial backing and market potential, even for the low margin vaccine sector.   The R&D, manufacturing, and safe distribution for a possible COVID-19 vaccine (and therapeutics) still rides on the back of companies and economic interests.

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4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's all well and good, but if a significant number of employers go under even larger problems lay ahead.    The push to re-open now has a momentun of its own and destructive shutdowns will not be so willingly accepted.    Deficits will mount not only because of the "generous programs", but also because of sizable hits on the revenue side.   Pre-existing social welfare programs will be stressed.  Ultimately, government is not the long term solution, and businesses will have to recover in whatever new normal there is.

 

 

It is unclear which vaccine trials in Canada are specifically private sector investment (like Symvivo) or government funded/directed as in other nations in addition to private enterprise.   Partnership often begins with financial backing and market potential, even for the low margin vaccine sector.   The R&D, manufacturing, and safe distribution for a possible COVID-19 vaccine (and therapeutics) still rides on the back of companies and economic interests.

You don’t have to convince me.  I’m all about getting back to work as soon as possible.  I believe it’s doable with the right protections, but I also know that many companies and organizations haven’t thought far enough ahead.  They don’t have a plan and PPE ready to go.  Also I’m hearing from a lot of people who sound paralyzed by fear.  The vulnerable have reason to be wary, and so do their families.  Some who have no underlying health concerns are simply over cautious people, like a fifth of everyone I know.  They won’t leave home without a hard push.  Reopening will be harder than closing.  

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On 5/16/2020 at 12:31 AM, Independent1986 said:

Do you know how serious this garbage is ? Do you know if we open the economy too soon and God forbids this virus spikes and we close back again, we are toasted.

There won't be much to go back to. That's going to be the real issue. Life as you knew it 3 months ago is gone for good.

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