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Independent1986

Police Officers and Woman in the park cases to analyze

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There are 2 stories trending in the US in regards to the topic of racism.

First story: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/black-man-dies-video-shows-officer-kneeling-neck-70879963

Four Minneapolis police officers who were involved in the arrest of a black man who died in police custody were fired Tuesday. No matter what the reason was for the arrest no individual should be treated the way you can see in the video. Disgusting video. I am surprised no charges have been brought yet for second degree murder or manslaughter. It was the right call to make the public aware of this case. 

Second story: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/central-park-new-york-white-woman-black-birdwatcher

Video of white woman calling police on black man in Central Park draws outrage. I watched that video, now you can tell she was extremely agitated and was not thinking rational in the moment. Her behavior was wrong and she apologized. The punishment came swiftly, she was fired from her investment firm, all the major media capitalized on the story and there is a new term going around as "Karen", which to me is nothing more than a racist term for someone that is Caucasian. 

Cases like the second story you can find in any group. I remember when I was younger and was volunteering in different community centers the most racist and anti-semitic people that I have met is other minorities. You can find individuals in every group when they are under stress or agitation that talk like that woman. The stuff that I heard in those centers is nothing in comparison to this.

It is extremely dangerous to move towards this kind of system to allow instant punishment based on social media and CNN media like outlets because to me it looks like nothing more than capitalizing on the first story which is heartbreaking. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The first story was the good intention but propaganda and capitalizing on the first story, that is the road to hell. 

Share your thoughts, different perspectives 

Edited by Independent1986
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Not sure what you mean by "the first story was the good intention"....the suspect died while in police restraint/custody despite numerous pleas for help and obvious respiratory distress.    Criminal charges are usually not filed against police for on duty actions until an investigation is completed, grand jury convened, etc.   Civil liability and a large settlement from the city/insurance are presumed.    The police chief and mayor should also be held accountable for the actions of these officers.

The female perp in Central Park didn't commit any crime unless the police cite her for a false 911 report and/or animal abuse because of the way she was handling her dog on and off leash.

Two crazy events...one much more serious than the other.

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Just in case you really though Colin Kaepernick was disrespecting the Troops. I think this comparison illustrates what he really was protesting. 

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not sure what you mean by "the first story was the good intention"....the suspect died while in police restraint/custody despite numerous pleas for help and obvious respiratory distress.    Criminal charges are usually not filed against police for on duty actions until an investigation is completed, grand jury convened, etc.   Civil liability and a large settlement from the city/insurance are presumed.    The police chief and mayor should also be held accountable for the actions of these officers.

The female perp in Central Park didn't commit any crime unless the police cite her for a false 911 report and/or animal abuse because of the way she was handling her dog on and off leash.

Two crazy events...one much more serious than the other.

I'm actually shocked the cops got fired that quickly. You'd think the Union would feel obliged to at least have these clowns put on administrative leave. 

The Central Park girl is a new victim of this Interweb phenomena of Karen Videos. 

Usually white women who act indignant over the craziest things. 

Here's one of the funnier ones. 

This Central Park's life is ruined. Her name will forever be linked to this video. Many think that it's fitting. I'm not sure I disagree, it was a shocking overreaction. 

Edited by Boges

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3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not sure what you mean by "the first story was the good intention"....the suspect died while in police restraint/custody despite numerous pleas for help and obvious respiratory distress.    Criminal charges are usually not filed against police for on duty actions until an investigation is completed, grand jury convened, etc.   Civil liability and a large settlement from the city/insurance are presumed.    The police chief and mayor should also be held accountable for the actions of these officers.

The female perp in Central Park didn't commit any crime unless the police cite her for a false 911 report and/or animal abuse because of the way she was handling her dog on and off leash.

Two crazy events...one much more serious than the other.

What i meant is that the intention of the media to promote this story is good and it should be done to make the public aware of what is happening in society.

The second story was just an interaction that was not needed to get the publicity that it got. The intent was to capitalize on the tragedy in the number 1 story to play identity politics.

Was she a racist ? Who knows that's her struggles but the immediate termination from her firm and CNN, MSNBC, Twitter sendings hundreds of thousands of messages towards her it shows that in the quest for justice and good intentions people abuse their power.  This is not a mob justice society, let the police handle it, wait for an investigation before you destroy someone for 1 moment of irrational thinking.

Edited by Independent1986

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33 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Was she a racist ? Who knows that's her struggles but the immediate termination from her firm and CNN, MSNBC, Twitter sendings hundreds of thousands of messages towards her it shows that in the quest for justice and good intentions people abuse their power.  This is not a mob justice society, let the police handle it, wait for an investigation before you destroy someone for 1 moment of irrational thinking.

It's a SJW issue that has made the internet a minefield for awhile.

That being said, do you want to employ someone who would do that? Or deal with a company that would look the other way having an employee like that? 

Conversely, however, in the past people would think behaviour like that was fine, because there was not consequences. Now there is. 

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4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not sure what you mean by "the first story was the good intention"....the suspect died while in police restraint/custody despite numerous pleas for help and obvious respiratory distress.    Criminal charges are usually not filed against police for on duty actions until an investigation is completed, grand jury convened, etc.   Civil liability and a large settlement from the city/insurance are presumed.    The police chief and mayor should also be held accountable for the actions of these officers.

It's too bad the cops could not detain and let the courts deal with him.  I'd give the cops the same fucking treatment. Kneel on their necks till they die. Penalties for cops should be higher as they are the assholes that are supposed to uphold the law.

 

Also looks like the people of Minneapolis are not taking this. Cops should be scared.

Edited by New World Disorder

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11 hours ago, Boges said:

It's a SJW issue that has made the internet a minefield for awhile.

That being said, do you want to employ someone who would do that? Or deal with a company that would look the other way having an employee like that? 

Conversely, however, in the past people would think behaviour like that was fine, because there was not consequences. Now there is. 

REGARDING THE SECOND STORY:

We went from no consequences to destroying someone in a few minutes. Of course there should be consequences but balanced to the fact at hand. 

And regarding employment please let's stop with the hypocrisy, you look deep down at every single individual we all made mistakes (Except Trump according to @OftenWrong joking) in different areas of our lives but we are first to criticize when someone's mistakes are made public. That's group mentality.

I don't practice Christianity but I remember one story I read once about Jesus coming to an execution and he told the people there: "Only the people that have not sinned pick up the stone." Nobody picked up the stone. 

Edited by Independent1986

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5 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

We went from no consequences to destroying someone in a few minutes. Of course there should be consequences but balanced to the fact at hand. 

And regarding employment please let's stop with the hypocrisy, you look deep down at every single individual we all made mistakes (Except Trump according to @OftenWrong joking) in different areas of our lives but we are first to criticize when someone's mistakes are made public. That's group mentality.

I don't practice Christianity but I remember one story I read once about Jesus coming to an execution and he told the people there: "Only the people that have not sinned pick up the stone." Nobody picked up the stone. 

I like to think I don't come down Black or White on anything. There are good things about SJW Online Group think, and there are bad things. 

I've often seen videos of people acting awfully and thought to myself, I hope Twitter gets them! But what happens when I do something that's not deemed acceptable by the same group, when does my life get ruined? These standards are often changing. There are certain homophobic slurs that have just been part of common pejorative language for much of my life. But now it's seen as highly offensive. Things change. 

BTW this is one of the reasons I refuse to use Twitter, it's full of people just looking to ruin lives. And in other social media sites, I only say things that I wouldn't be ashamed if everyone I knew saw. 

Sometimes Facebook shows you things you said in 2009. It's an exercise in embarrassment. Did I really say that?!?

Edited by Boges

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The Minneapolis police incident has a larger context and history going back years, and not just for black victims.   A police officer was convicted of manslaughter in the death of an Australian women who called 911 for help.    That incident cost the mayor and police chief their jobs, which is one reason these cops were fired so quickly despite any police union/federation objections.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

What i meant is that the intention of the media to promote this story is good and it should be done to make the public aware of what is happening in society.

The media always promotes white racism. It's their favorite thing.

6 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

The second story was just an interaction that was not needed to get the publicity that it got. The intent was to capitalize on the tragedy in the number 1 story to play identity politics.

Was she a racist ? Who knows that's her struggles but the immediate termination from her firm and CNN, MSNBC, Twitter sendings hundreds of thousands of messages towards her it shows that in the quest for justice and good intentions people abuse their power.  This is not a mob justice society, let the police handle it, wait for an investigation before you destroy someone for 1 moment of irrational thinking.

There are a lot of people like her out there. But again, unless it's a white one acting like a moron to a black person nobody pays attention and it doesn't go anywhere.

Have a look at this brainless idiot in a park blocking a white guy from going down a bicycle path. Exact same sort of mentality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gr3bfq/karen_has_the_right_as_an_american_to_stop_and/

 

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The Minneapolis police incident has a larger context and history going back years, and not just for black victims.   A police officer was convicted of manslaughter in the death of an Australian women who called 911 for help.    That incident cost the mayor and police chief their jobs, which is one reason these cops were fired so quickly despite any police union/federation objections.

 

 

US police forces have come a long way from the days of Adam 12, when they'd simply cuff someone and be done. Now if anyone gives them even the slightest lip their go-to move is to force them face down in the dirt and put a knee on their head or neck. The mentality seems to be one of total control at all times, and always over-reacting and using as much force as you can get away with.

The media interprets this as a racial thing. It's not. Those cops would have acted the same towards a white, brown or yellow man. We see more such cases involving blacks because 1. Black men are involved in a hugely disproportionate amount of street crime and 2. are more likely to resist and 3. the media jumps on any case of perceived racism with both feet. Plenty of unarmed white guys have been killed by the police under strange circumstances, like the naked guy out in the desert in plain view shot dead, or the guy driving away who was shot in the back of the head, or the poor crying guy crawling up a hallway begging them not to kill him who got blown away, or the guy who came out onto his front porch to find bright spotlights in his face and a dozen SWAT guys across the street wearing armor and crouched behind cars and got shot because one of them "thought he moved his hand".

The problem is not racism. The problem is badly trained and poorly disciplined police.

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On the Central Park incident, Cooper the birder regrets the consequences for Cooper the banker:

Quote

 

Mr Christian Cooper said in the interview that he had been overwhelmed by the response to his video, but that the retribution against Ms Amy Cooper had taken him aback.

“It’s a little bit of a frenzy, and I am uncomfortable with that,” he said. “If our goal is to change the underlying factors, I am not sure that this young woman having her life completely torn apart serves that goal.”
Read more at https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/26/nyregion/amy-cooper-dog-central-park.html

 

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10 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Second story: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/26/central-park-new-york-white-woman-black-birdwatcher

Video of white woman calling police on black man in Central Park draws outrage. I watched that video, now you can tell she was extremely agitated and was not thinking rational in the moment. Her behavior was wrong and she apologized. The punishment came swiftly, she was fired from her investment firm, all the major media capitalized on the story and there is a new term going around as "Karen", which to me is nothing more than a racist term for someone that is Caucasian. 

Cases like the second story you can find in any group. I remember when I was younger and was volunteering in different community centers the most racist and anti-semitic people that I have met is other minorities. You can find individuals in every group when they are under stress or agitation that talk like that woman. The stuff that I heard in those centers is nothing in comparison to this.

It is extremely dangerous to move towards this kind of system to allow instant punishment based on social media and CNN media like outlets because to me it looks like nothing more than capitalizing on the first story which is heartbreaking. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The first story was the good intention but propaganda and capitalizing on the first story, that is the road to hell. 

Share your thoughts, different perspectives 

He asked her to put a leash on her dog, per the signs in the area, which is a well-known bird-watching area.

Given the state of the police in the US, her bogus call saying he was threatening her life - could have cost this black man his actual LIFE.

SHE came towards him and HE said, "Don't come near me." for pete's sake.

She knew what she was doing IMO. 

Edited by Goddess
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11 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

We went from no consequences to destroying someone in a few minutes. Of course there should be consequences but balanced to the fact at hand. 

And regarding employment please let's stop with the hypocrisy, you look deep down at every single individual we all made mistakes (Except Trump according to @OftenWrong joking) in different areas of our lives but we are first to criticize when someone's mistakes are made public. That's group mentality.

I don't practice Christianity but I remember one story I read once about Jesus coming to an execution and he told the people there: "Only the people that have not sinned pick up the stone." Nobody picked up the stone. 

The officer in question has been trained on the proper technics of restraint, and the use of deadly force, he knew exactly what he was doing and the consequences of doing it…. This was murder plain and simple, he does not deserve a second chance because he made a "mistake", ..no a mistake would have been putting handcuffs on to tight, or arresting the wrong guy .... this is murder or man slaughter....Police officers primary duty is to serve and protect, the people....and those officers that let this happen, should be charged as well as they let it all happen, despite the crowd screaming , and warning all the police that the guy was not moving or did not look alive....he should be placed in general prison population and let natural selection take its path....

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19 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

The officer in question has been trained on the proper technics of restraint, and the use of deadly force, he knew exactly what he was doing and the consequences of doing it…. This was murder plain and simple, he does not deserve a second chance because he made a "mistake", ..no a mistake would have been putting handcuffs on to tight, or arresting the wrong guy .... this is murder or man slaughter....Police officers primary duty is to serve and protect, the people....and those officers that let this happen, should be charged as well as they let it all happen, despite the crowd screaming , and warning all the police that the guy was not moving or did not look alive....he should be placed in general prison population and let natural selection take its path....

You are reading incorrectly, I was talking about the second story there, not the first one. I think we are all in agreement regarding the first one that it was manslaughter/second degree murder. 

Edited by Independent1986

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Well Minneapolis is burning.  :huh:

Now all the racists can talk about the "thugs" who rioted and ignore the coldblooded murder witnessed on video. 

Edited by Boges

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Actually, there was a bit more to the bird watcher story, if you read his FB page,  there were words exchanged before he took out his phone. He actually  did appear to threaten her and he is an activist, so it was a bit of a set up.    He said:  “Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.”

Not that what she did was right, she should've just leashed the dog and left,  but I don't think a company you work for should give in so quickly to a howling internet mob. 

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20 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Actually, there was a bit more to the bird watcher story, if you read his FB page,  there were words exchanged before he took out his phone. He actually  did appear to threaten her and he is an activist, so it was a bit of a set up.    He said:  “Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.”

Not that what she did was right, she should've just leashed the dog and left,  but I don't think a company you work for should give in so quickly to a howling internet mob. 

I guess CNN, MSNBC and all these communist agitators that love to see groups divided forgot to include that since it does not serve their narrative. Anyone is an activist these days, remember Jussie Smollett, how come that story went away ? I don't like when I see propaganda in either way, like for example crazy right wingers defending the cop murderer.

Also for the first story however, the situation tends to degenerate there if the cop will not be charged for the murder. The militias which are mostly white started showing up with weapons to stand guard in front of some stores but when they interviewed one of them he said he is for the protest but against looting. 

Edited by Independent1986

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There’s a reason paramedics are told to protect the airway; humans need their oxygen and any manoeuvre that compromises its supply increases the chance of death dramatically. 

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3 hours ago, scribblet said:

Actually, there was a bit more to the bird watcher story, if you read his FB page,  there were words exchanged before he took out his phone. He actually  did appear to threaten her and he is an activist, so it was a bit of a set up.    He said:  “Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.”

Not that what she did was right, she should've just leashed the dog and left,  but I don't think a company you work for should give in so quickly to a howling internet mob. 

He would have been referring to the dog treats right? 

I think he certainly had motivations to confront her, but there was no indication that he was going to assault her. Especially while filming.

It's this unspoken racism that a Karen thinks she can call in authorities against minorities. He deserves to have the police called on him because he told her to follow the rules? 

 

Edited by Boges

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24 minutes ago, Boges said:

He would have been referring to the dog treats right? 

I think he certainly had motivations to expose her or at least confront her, but there was no indication that he was going to assault her. Especially while filming.

She hung herself on her own petard. It's this unspoken racism that a Karen thinks she can call in authorities against minorities. 

 

I would love to know her political leanings, because lots of people on the left, I hate to generalize and put people in groups but I will say it: white elitists females, that created this system for collective punishment (racist this, racist that, political correctness) and once in a while they get bitten by the same system that they created. This is the people that lecture you for being a racist meanwhile they inside have racist feelings and probably never have any minority friends.

I remember vividly I was walking down the street one time and I was approached to join some social group to fight against oppression. I told her straight up: my belief system is to treat each as individuals, for me there is no separation, when I interact with someone I judge him/her by his character, I am not putting people into camps: white vs black, privileged vs oppressed. I believe we live in a society that each individual has a chance to succeed if he wants to work hard no matter what is is and I don't want to join a group that will give people an excuse for their failures.

She turned around and she said: "You are just a racist". I said "All the best". And left :)

Edited by Independent1986

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24 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

I would love to know her political leanings, because lots of people on the left, I hate to generalize and put people in groups but I will say it: white elitists females, that created this system for collective punishment (racist this, racist that, political correctness) and once in a while they get bitten by the same system that they created. This is the people that lecture you for being a racist meanwhile they inside have racist feelings and probably never have any minority friends.

I remember vividly I was walking down the street one time and I was approached to join some social group to fight against oppression. I told her straight up: my belief system is to treat each as individuals, for me there is no separation, when I interact with someone I judge him/her by his character, I am not putting people into camps: white vs black, privileged vs oppressed. I believe we live in a society that each individual has a chance to succeed if he wants to work hard no matter what is is and I don't want to join a group that will give people an excuse for their failures.

She turned around and she said: "You are just a racist". I said "All the best". And left :)

I suspect she's probably left-leaning. Being a Dog person from New York. Apparently she's also Canadian. 

It's this phenomena of Karens that think anyone infringing on their outright freedom to do whatever they want, is a threat. 

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2 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Who is Karen 

Dude, do you even internet? :P

From Wiki

Quote

Karen is a pejorative slang term that is used to typify a person perceived to be entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary. One of the most common Karen stereotypes is that of a white American middle-aged woman who displays aggressive behavior when she is obstructed from getting her way; such women are often depicted as demanding to "speak to the manager".

 

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