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Wet Got Bigger Problems Than George Floyd

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Oh, well guess what? It seems George Floyd's death was not just from being held down. He was also high on fentanyl and meth at the time. Which would also explain why they were fighting with him in the back of the car and had to drag him out again to wait for a paddy wagon. He didn't strangle or suffocate after all.

Floyd died due to "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restrain, and neck compression," according to the report.

It also specified "other significant conditions," including fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as well as existing heart disease.

In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867219130/george-floyd-independent-autopsy-homicide-by-asphyxia

Doctor : I am sorry, your husband died of covid.

Widow : But he got hit by a truck!?

Doctor : Well , he had covid. *shrugs*.

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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 Get the people outraged to the point they are furious. It was just a matter of time before the next black person got killed on video.

The politics of outrage were not created by the Democrats.  In fact, they are rather terrible at it.  The Republicans can get people to storm legislatures with machine guns because hair cuts are postponed... 

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3 hours ago, taxme said:

You mean that CNN and MSNBC are fake news, right? :lol:

Pretty much. I believe we were comparing them to the WWE. 

There's sports and then there's WWE sports entertainment. There's news and then there's cable news entertainment.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

They were waiting for an incident like this to happen and used it to trip the switch. Get the people outraged to the point they are furious. It was just a matter of time before the next black person got killed on video.

I love how you guys always feel like you're in the middle of the unfolding of some master conspiracy. As it was pointed out in the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy though everyone gets that.

In any case given the backdrop the timing for a galvanizing event was spot on, never has there been a more graphic example of how closely associated collapse is with fiddling.

Edited by eyeball
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9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I love how you guys always feel like you're in the middle of the unfolding of some master conspiracy. As it was pointed out in the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy though everyone gets that.

In any case given the backdrop the timing for a galvanizing event was spot on, never has there been a more graphic example of how closely associated collapse is with fiddling.

Not at all.  Conspiracy suggests some kind of secret.  They don’t even hide it anymore.  They don’t even try.  It’s why an unarmed white man can be choked to death by police with nary a peep from anyone.  But the world has to end when it happens to somebody with a darker complexion.  It’s knee jerk assertions of racism, like progressive Pavlov’s dogs.  They can’t even contemplate for even a second that it could be something else.  That’s prejudice of a different kind.  You know, pre-judging.

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28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In any case given the backdrop the timing for a galvanizing event was spot on, never has there been a more graphic example of how closely associated collapse is with fiddling.

 

You mean it wasn't 1953 after all ?    How about 1968....MLK Jr. was shot dead and the perp fled to Canada !

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The politics of outrage were not created by the Democrats.  In fact, they are rather terrible at it.  The Republicans can get people to storm legislatures with machine guns because hair cuts are postponed... 

Who said democrats? Feeling sensitive, are we?
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were not a liberal?

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54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I love how you guys always feel like you're in the middle of the unfolding of some master conspiracy. As it was pointed out in the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy though everyone gets that.

In any case given the backdrop the timing for a galvanizing event was spot on, never has there been a more graphic example of how closely associated collapse is with fiddling.

It really seems like some of you are enjoying the spectacle. Let's have a poll and see if it's politically biased.

You are a simpleton, you and your cohort. Nowhere did I mention Dems or conspiracy. Radical groups take advantage of a crisis to exploit it, by using the media whores against us. The more explicit and outrageous the spectacle, the better their chances are of getting air time.

Then out come all the lemmings and usually it's the college kids, hoping to do something good for the world. They are duped into acting as a cover for the radical groups exploits.

I have seen it myself first-hand, what kind of people there are at protests. Some of these are trained and they specialize in working a protest to get the most out of it. They have strategies, techniques, and equipment.

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Several times on this thread I've heard complaints against bringing up statistical facts showing blacks have no reason to feel they're being persecuted worse than any other race by the police or anybody else. The idea facts are bad when they interfere with people's feels is dumb. Generally when I hear something so dumb as a command to stop noticing facts my go to move is to post more facts. So here ya go...

From here:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/06/truth-about-police-violence-and-race-john-perazzo/

Quote
  • A Washington Post opinion piece framed Mr. Floyd's death as “yet another reminder of how black people are killed by law enforcement in disproportionately high numbers.”

The singular theme that runs through every one of the statements cited above – and serves as the subtext of the riots and street protests – is the perception that what happened to George Floyd is emblematic of the type of brutality that police in America routinely, selectively, and disproportionately inflict upon black people. Thus, the vital question we must answer is whether or not that perception is founded in truth, or in fiction.

Over the course of many years, mountains of empirical evidence regarding this subject have been accumulated.

Some of the most comprehensive information we have comes from a 2001 Bureau of Justice Statistics report examining incidents where police in the United States used deadly force to kill criminal suspects between 1976 and 1998. During that 23-year span, 42% of all suspects killed by police were black – a figure that comported precisely with the percentage of violent crimes committed by African Americans during that same period. This is enormously significant because we would expect that in police forces not plagued by systemic racism, officers would shoot suspects of various racial or ethnic backgrounds at rates closely resembling their respective involvement in the types of serious crimes most likely to elicit the use of force by police. And indeed, that is exactly what the evidence shows.

Moreover, in nearly two-thirds of all justifiable homicides by police during 1976-98, the officer’s race and the suspect’s race were the same. When a white or Hispanic officer killed a suspect, that suspect was usually (63% of the time) white or Hispanic as well. And when a black officer killed a suspect, that suspect was usually black (81% of the time).

How about the rate at which officers killed suspects of other racial or ethnic backgrounds? In 1998, the “black-officer-kills-black-felon” rate was 32 per 100,000 black officers, more than double the rate at which white and Hispanic officers killed black felons (14 per 100,000). That same year, the rate at which white and Hispanic officers killed white or Hispanic felons (28 per 100,000) was much higher than the “black-officer-kills-white-or-Hispanic-felon” rate of 11 per 100,000.

In 1999, criminologists Geoffrey Alpert and Roger Dunham confirmed once again that police officers were more likely to use force against suspects of their own racial group, than against suspects from another racial group.

A 2011 Bureau of Justice Statistics study which covered the period from 2003 to 2009 sheds further light on the issue of police use of force against people of various racial and ethnic backgrounds. Of all suspects who are known to have been killed by police during that 7-year time frame, 41.7% were white, 31.7% were black, and 20.3% were Hispanic. It is also worth noting that during the 2003-2009 period—when blacks were 31.7% of all suspects killed by an officer—blacks accounted for about 38.5% of all arrests for violent crimes, which are the types of crimes most likely to trigger potentially deadly confrontations with police. These numbers do not in any way suggest a lack of restraint by police in their dealings with black suspects. On the contrary, they strongly suggest exactly the opposite.[1]

In 2015, a Justice Department study of the Philadelphia Police Department found that black officers were 67 percent more likely than their white colleagues to mistakenly shoot an unarmed black suspect, and Hispanic officers were 145 percent more likely to do the same. That same year, a study of the New York Police Department by criminology professor Greg Ridgeway found that black officers were 3.3 times more likely than their white peers to discharge their guns in the course of their work. So much for the notion of trigger-happy white cops.

In any given year, a mere 0.6 percent of black men report that physical force of any kind – including mild actions like pushing and grabbing – is used against them by the police. The corresponding figure for white men is approximately 0.2 percent. Though both figures are infinitesimally small, critics of the police are quick to complain that the figure for blacks is three times higher than the figure for whites. But as National Review points out, that disparity is fully accounted for by the fact that “black men commit violent crimes at much higher rates than white men,” as evidenced by data from the annual National Crime Victimization Survey.

Moreover, the available data indicate that a mere 0.08 percent of black men and white men alike are injured by police in any given year. This figure includes injuries sustained as a result of police actions that are legally justified, and often necessary, in order to thwart criminal behavior.

In a 2018 working paper titled “An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force,” Harvard economist Roland Fryer, who is African American, reported that police officers in Houston were nearly 24 percent less likely to shoot black suspects than white suspects. In a separate analysis of officer shootings in three Texas cities, six Florida counties, and the city of Los Angeles, Fryer found that: (a) officers were 47 percent less likely to discharge their weapon without first being attacked if the suspect was black, than if the suspect was white; (b) black and white individuals shot by police were equally likely to have been armed at the time of the shootings; (c) white officers were no more likely to shoot unarmed blacks than unarmed whites; (d) black officers were more likely to shoot unarmed whites than unarmed blacks; and (e) black officers were more likely than white officers to shoot unarmed whites. There is no evidence of anti-black racism in any of these findings, though some of them do seem to suggest an anti-white bias.

A 2019 study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that white officers are no more likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot black civilians. “In fact,” writes Manhattan Institute scholar Heather Mac Donald, the study found that “if there is a bias in police shootings after crime rates are taken into account, it is against white civilians.” Specifically, Mac Donald adds, the authors of the study compiled a database of 917 officer-involved fatal shootings in 2015 and found that 55 percent of the victims were white, 27 percent were black, and 19 percent were Hispanic.

Each and every year, without exception, whites who are shot and killed by police officers in the U.S. far outnumber blacks and Hispanics who meet that same fate. In 2017, for instance, 457 whites, 223 blacks, and 179 Hispanics were killed by police officers in the line of duty. In 2018, the corresponding figures were 399 whites, 209 blacks, and 148 Hispanics. And in 2019, the totals were 370 whites, 235 blacks, and 158 Hispanics. There is not a hint of racism anywhere in these figures.

When we compare black rates of violent crime, with the rate at which blacks are shot and killed by police officers, we find that blacks are represented among those shooting victims at rates significantly lower than we would normally expect. For example, in 2017, blacks were just 23.6% of all people shot dead by police, even though they were arrested for 37.5% of all violent crimes. The following year, blacks were 26.3% of those fatally shot by police, even as they were arrested for fully 37.4% of violent crimes.

According to Heather Mac Donald: “The per capita rate of officers being feloniously killed is 45 times higher than the rate at which unarmed black males are killed by cops. And an officer’s chance of getting killed by a black assailant is 18.5 times higher than the chance of an unarmed black getting killed by a cop.”

In sum, there is a veritable Everest of evidence demolishing the fake, phony, fraudulent narrative of systemic police abuse aimed at African Americans. But the one trait that the raging rioters, the fervid protesters, the sanctimonious civil-rights leaders, and the preening celebrity tweeters all have in common, is their deep and abiding commitment to their own righteous rage. They very much want – and very much need – to believe that police brutality against black Americans is widespread and systemic. And they reflexively, indignantly rebel against any suggestion to the contrary, as though the foundational dogma of their holy faith were being called into question by blasphemous heretics.

But in the final analysis, they are all quite full of it. No matter how deeply their hearts may be seared by grief in response to the latest unnecessary loss of an innocent life, and no matter how organic may be the wellspring of the tears that now moisten their eyes, the pained and pious countenances that they dutifully bear cannot transform their lies into truth.

It is possible, you know, to do two reasonable things at once. That is, one can be outraged by the injustice that was done to George Floyd, without falsely portraying it as a microcosm of systemic racism by police officers across America. It is nothing of the kind.

NOTE:
[1] The annual violent-crime arrest statistics for 2003-2009, broken down by race, can be found here: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009.

 

Edited by Infidel Dog

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The politics of outrage were not created by the Democrats.  In fact, they are rather terrible at it.  The Republicans can get people to storm legislatures with machine guns because hair cuts are postponed... 

Sorry Bubber, can you explain that?

 

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3 hours ago, Shady said:

Not at all.  Conspiracy suggests some kind of secret.  They don’t even hide it anymore.  They don’t even try.

They, who are these They you speak of? Name names.  Will you even try?

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You mean it wasn't 1953 after all ?    How about 1968....MLK Jr. was shot dead and the perp fled to Canada !

No it's just another American crisis. You can move along everything is completely normal as I'm sure you know.

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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It really seems like some of you are enjoying the spectacle. Let's have a poll and see if it's politically biased.

You are a simpleton, you and your cohort. Nowhere did I mention Dems or conspiracy. Radical groups take advantage of a crisis to exploit it, by using the media whores against us. The more explicit and outrageous the spectacle, the better their chances are of getting air time.

Then out come all the lemmings and usually it's the college kids, hoping to do something good for the world. They are duped into acting as a cover for the radical groups exploits.

I have seen it myself first-hand, what kind of people there are at protests. Some of these are trained and they specialize in working a protest to get the most out of it. They have strategies, techniques, and equipment.

Notice how easy it is even for simpletons to bring the most powerful nation on Earth to a standstill?  Simpletons...like a little bit of straw on a camel's back. What, you figure it takes rocket science or something?  No strategies, techniques or equipment necessary. No secret handshakes, no Deepstate, no funny hand signs...nothing.   Just take a lame assed country on its last legs add a little straw and presto. You mean to say after all you've seen yourself first-hand that you really didn't see anything like this coming?

All I can say is its sure a good thing this isn't climate change action you're trying to get over.  BTW whatever happened to this BIG right-wing backlash we keep hearing about, is what's happening anything like what you imagine or is there still a bigger Storm-a-comin'? 

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Interesting stat to add to this issue: I, a white person, was choked out by peace-officers once. I had a relative who stole a boom-box while I was with them. Although I didn't steal it nor even think she was going to do this before hand, I walked out with her and was followed by the store's security staff and the member who first saw us. .....Okay, they actually were 'profiling' me [and not her] at the time (I appeared as a poor 'hippie' head-banger). When their staff caught up with us, although the female relative I was with was the one who stole it, she remained silent, something that I probably should have done but was not experienced with such activities. So I, not my relative, admitted the obvious nature of the theft thinking it was futile to lie. Then one of the security guys demanded that I have handcuffed while my relative was not. I calmly asserted that I was willing to go back with them to the store and that cuffs were not even necessary. This was a 'trigger' for this wanna-be superhero peace officer to assume that I was resisting arrest and so jumped on me and chocked me out til I almost blacked out. 

This is then MY supporting example counter-proof that while such peace officers or police can be irrational and in the wrong, that the issue was MORE about stereotyping based on appearances related to wealth differences and NOT race! There is always some larger population among any economic classes or the extremes (wealth or poor) to be representative in numbers. This then falsely  gets used to assert that police are actually racist when it is just a coinciding and INEVITABLE factor.  Those who act out more extreme within the police are also just as likely to BE racist but to presume this is 'systematically' representative is severely flawed. 

I am shocked when I hear the stupidity of politicians to support the 'systemic racialized' conspiracy theory that this is literally true of the police as a whole. In fact, the suggestion by Jagmeet Singh yesterday that asserted too many blacks and other minoirities, like our "Indigenous" here who represent the major plurality of the poor here, are being incarcerated by too high of some expected norm,  is an example of the stupidity being sold to us. That is, if the larger percentage or some plurality incarcerated is Indigenous here, how can one assert this as PROOF of bias when the reality is that the Indigenous just happen to BE the larger plurality percentage-wise of the POOR. 

And if you think Jagmeet's thinking is correct, then given the even MORE prevalence of "Men" as a class to be incarcerated should PROVE similarly -- and with MORE power -- that there is 'systemic' extreme bias against men!  Although I would believe this bias to exist, it doesn't mean that men have some single conspiratorial alliance to be violent. It just happens to be the case that most women will foster this anomoly by preferentially selecting those males who are more agressive, dominant, and strong enough to be prone to more empowered. ....Mind you, maybe the present state of physically dominant males to females passing on these genes of violence the male has must be due to conspiratorial RAPE of all women??!!

 

[P.S. The female relative I mentioned was actually experiencing her first arrest for actual theft because of my presense only! Had the profiler not been targeting the assumption of my own impoverishment, she would have gone unnoticed. Though we were in similar financial conditions, her appearance to be less 'desperate' and probably assumed better off, further proves my own guess at economic bias as well as the presumption of only men to be potentially violent. She wasn't cuffed nor considered needed to be oddly.]

Edited by Scott Mayers
new content added in brackets, [ ]

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Hmmm. just saw a news report on CBC about B.C. Mounties beating the shit out of another victim (?). Oh wait, ....the 'victim' appears to be white! Let's see how this plays out as proof supporting the police conspiring against their race!?? I received the similar reaction as my last post explained. The problem in the police is not about race but about their bias against any stereotype about physical behavior independent of race. My bet is that they'll focus on the Native drunk in Nunavat given it SUPPORTS the bias as racially driven and they'll bury the more overt violence we see by the Mounties in B.C..  The event in Nunavit could potentially be unracial given the police just used his door to knock down the guy. This can be just as much a fear the police officer may have had of potential contagion of Covid? [not an excuse either but less certain to be intentional as the white B.C. drunk.]

[I tried to seek a link to this event but Google doesn't show it when I typed, "B.C. Mounties beat up drunk". See the present CBC or other news to see the event online.]

 

[Found link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/violent-arrest-rcmp-kelowna-1.5595804 ]

Edited by Scott Mayers

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1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

This is then MY supporting example counter-proof that while such peace officers or police can be irrational and in the wrong, that the issue was MORE about stereotyping based on appearances related to wealth differences and NOT race!

There are certain jobs that naturally attract sociopathic, or even psychopathic individuals. They seek positions where they have power over others. You might see a higher percentage of such people in police, security, and also in administration.

HOWEVER,

In regards to police, anyone resisting is essentially putting a gun to their own head. These people have to deal with the worst of human scum every day, on a moments notice if necessary, while the rest of us can run away. If a cop tells you to do something, you'd best do it and say, "Yes, sir." He's not going to wait around and try to figure out if you're really a criminal, or just having a bad day.

Edited by OftenWrong

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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

There are certain jobs that naturally attract sociopathic, or even psychopathic individuals. They seek positions where they have power over others. You might see a higher percentage of such people in police, security, and also in administration.

HOWEVER,

In regards to police, anyone resisting is essentially putting a gun to their own head. These people have to deal with the worst of human scum every day, on a moments notice if necessary, while the rest of us can run away. If a cop tells you to do something, you'd best do it and say, "Yes, sir." He's not going to wait around and try to figure out if you're really a criminal, or just having a bad day.

Agreed.

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6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Notice how easy it is even for simpletons to bring the most powerful nation on Earth to a standstill?  Simpletons...like a little bit of straw on a camel's back. What, you figure it takes rocket science or something?  No strategies, techniques or equipment necessary. No secret handshakes, no Deepstate, no funny hand signs...nothing.   Just take a lame assed country on its last legs add a little straw and presto. You mean to say after all you've seen yourself first-hand that you really didn't see anything like this coming?

It's nice that you think the whole US is brought "to a standstill" by these riots. A few city blocks in the downtown cores of cities.

Your evident glee at seeing wanton destruction of civility is duly noted. Once again

Just because the media plasters big and awesome images of buildings on fire, and people cheering, that gets you to believe it is everywhere. The nation is on fire. Yup.

You are utterly mesmerized by the media. You don't have to tell me anything.

Edited by OftenWrong
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32 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 In regards to police, anyone resisting is essentially putting a gun to their own head. These people have to deal with the worst of human scum every day, on a moments notice if necessary, while the rest of us can run away. If a cop tells you to do something, you'd best do it and say, "Yes, sir." He's not going to wait around and try to figure out if you're really a criminal, or just having a bad day.

I will turn around something I have read here from Argus and others...

Specifically - policing is not as dangerous as depicted in ... um ... "the media".  Would you like to go to a policeman's barbecue and explain that to them ?  Of course not.  To negate the perceptions of a group is ridiculous, it negates politics and it tells people to f*** off.  

You can't tell police to shut up because their job is less dangerous to fishing and you can't tell people to shut up because more white people are killed by police.  It's stupid to think that.
 

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19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It's nice that you think the whole US is brought "to a standstill" by these riots. A few city blocks in the downtown cores of cities.

Your evident glee at seeing wanton destruction of civility is duly noted. Once again

Just because the media plasters big and awesome images of buildings on fire, and people cheering, that gets you to believe it is everywhere. The nation is on fire. Yup.

You are utterly mesmerized by the media. You don't have to tell me anything.

The glee is conveniently from people who don’t have to worry about their property being destroyed.  I think all of these people need to set their cars on fire today in solidarity for the actions they approve of and champion.  Otherwise they’re complete and utter hypocrites.  Like usual.

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7 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

 The idea facts are bad when they interfere with people's feels is dumb. Generally when I hear something so dumb as a command to stop noticing facts my go to move is to post more facts. So here ya go...

If you say so. 

"Blue lives matter" should be shelved, then, and we should pay attention to the problem of roofers dying on the job.  Please attend the latest funeral of a dead cop with your clip board and slide rule and explain to the grieving widow that she is stupid.  Of course I'm being hyperbolic and emotional, but that' because I'm a snowflake...

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Just now, Shady said:

The glee is conveniently from people who don’t have to worry about their property being destroyed.  I think all of these people need to set their cars on fire today in solidarity for the actions they approve of and champion.  Otherwise they’re complete and utter hypocrites.  Like usual.

People who aren't worried about black people rioting overwhelmingly have insurance, so they shouldn't be upset as they are covered.


See a theme yet ?

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Specifically - policing is not as dangerous as depicted in ... um ... "the media".

Not every day all day, as depicted in the movies. But it is a responsibility they bear. Let's not forget "they" are humans beings.

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24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Not every day all day, as depicted in the movies. But it is a responsibility they bear. Let's not forget "they" are humans beings.

Well, you know I'm going to turn this back to the Black Americans' perceptions that cops hate them right ?  

My point: don't try to quell human emotion with numbers and facts.  If that worked, FOX would still be showing Bigfoot and UFO shows like the 1980s.

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