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Rayshard Brooks Killed By Police In Atlanta. Free TVs For Everyone..


WestCanMan

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Is that why you don't have any cites? 

This was the top item that came up in my Google search when I typed in Hannah Fizer:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fatal-shooting-missouri-woman-deputy-traffic-stop-sparks-protest-leaves-n1231646

Google.... BLAM! 244,000 results in .47 seconds. Done. 

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19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

See, all I did there was selectively choose your own words, in their correct order,  from your post, that fit my narrative, and neglected to use the parts of your post that didn't fit my narrative. That's like blaring out a headline where CTV uses the parts of a story that fit their narrative, and neglect the parts of a story that don't fit their narrative. Or maybe it was just sloppy editing.

Except you've stated your accusation as plainly as it gets - CTV's neglect is not a casual mistake and that painting a grossly misleading picture is an act of wilful intent. You're backpeddling because you're a worthless liar.

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24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Except you've stated your accusation as plainly as it gets - CTV's neglect is not a casual mistake and that painting a grossly misleading picture is an act of wilful intent. You're backpeddling because you're a worthless liar.

I'm not backpedaling on anything. Every single thing that I said is 100% true and you know that, but because of your own lack of integrity it's normal for you to make ridiculous accusations once you're backed into a corner.

The fact stands, that by your standards I can edit the crap out of your posts to completely change the meaning of them and it's ok. 

I won't be doing that with Argus or Rue or anyone else here because they've never advocated for media dishonesty. Only you protect the media's right to lie, and if it's ok for CTV to lie then for certain it's ok for the rest of us.

I was wrong about you eyeball. I thought that you were immoral, but it turns out that you're amoral. Makes sense, in light of everything else.

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21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

This was the top item that came up in my Google search when I typed in Hannah Fizer:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fatal-shooting-missouri-woman-deputy-traffic-stop-sparks-protest-leaves-n1231646

Google.... BLAM! 244,000 results in .47 seconds. Done. 

If it was so easy then the person who was making the reference should have provided the information. 

From the MSM article you note, there is protest and discontent on why this person was killed. 

Another example of a simple traffic stop turning into a death. Speaks to the same policing issues BLM talks about. 

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29 minutes ago, Boges said:

If it was so easy then the person who was making the reference should have provided the information. 

From the MSM article you note, there is protest and discontent on why this person was killed. 

Another example of a simple traffic stop turning into a death. Speaks to the same policing issues BLM talks about. 

I don't think many people of good will deny that police training needs to be changed and enhanced. But that is not what those marching are demanding. They are simply demanding fewer police. That is not going to solve anything.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

I don't think many people of good will deny that police training needs to be changed and enhanced. But that is not what those marching are demanding. They are simply demanding fewer police. That is not going to solve anything.

I think a lot of people are asking for a lot of different things. Policing is very local. So each community will handle if differently. 

I believed, before all this, that police budget were too large and Police Unions are a problem. I think the events of the last month have affirmed those beliefs. I think you could have less cops trained better and re-allocate many of their tasks. 

What has changed is the public narrative around these protests. 5 years ago, Colin Kaepernick was a "Son of a Bitch" that was disrespecting the Troops. 

Now, when and if sports ever returns, BLM will be front and centre. And owners and #45 can't do anything to stop it. 

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1 minute ago, Boges said:

I think a lot of people are asking for a lot of different things. Policing is very local. So each community will handle if differently. 

I believed, before all this, that police budget were too large and Police Unions are a problem. I think the events of the last month have affirmed those beliefs. I think you could have less cops trained better and re-allocate many of their tasks. 

This is from the US. In Canada, we have among the lowest proportion of police to population in the western world, much lower than most of Europe and the US.

These proposals are based on either over-optimistic or false beliefs about the funding and efficacy of social programs. First, American police spending is hardly out of line with the rest of the world. State and local police spending in fiscal year 2017 totaled $115 billion; federal law enforcement spending included $14.4 billion on top of that. Altogether, spending on police totaled 0.66 percent of the 2017 GDP of $19.5 trillion. This is low by the standards of developed nations. Member countries of the European Union spend an average of 0.9 percent of their GDP on the police, with individual nations ranging from 0.5 percent to 1.4 percent. The Urban Institute notes that though police spending has grown in absolute terms since the late 1970s, it has consistently remained at just below 4 percent of total state spending, and that 97 percent of police spending goes to labor costs—not extravagant military-grade equipment, as critics claim.

On the local level, police spending is dwarfed by education, which accounts for 40 percent of local government spending nationwide, versus just 6 percent for police.

https://outline.com/XESL4B

1 minute ago, Boges said:

What has changed is the public narrative around these protests. 5 years ago, Colin Kaepernick was a "Son of a Bitch" that was disrespecting the Troops. 

Now, when and if sports ever returns, BLM will be front and centre. And owners and #45 can't do anything to stop it. 

And a lot of white people are going to stop watching, stop buying the gear, and turn in their season tickets. That was the finding of a study the league made last year. It suggested any team that offered him a job would lose 20% of its season ticket holders.

Kaepernick isn't a SOB, he's just ignorant, like many people, about the true nature of police/black interactions, the amount of it, and the causes. He's protesting against something which largely doesn't exist - the police targeting of black people.

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26 minutes ago, Argus said:

And a lot of white people are going to stop watching, stop buying the gear, and turn in their season tickets. That was the finding of a study the league made last year. It suggested any team that offered him a job would lose 20% of its season ticket holders.

And go where? Watch Hockey? Watch Basketball? Watch Soccer? 

200612-jadon-sancho-gty-773.jpg

Perhaps Nascar which just banned the Confederate Flag and a Black Driver had a noose put in his garage. 

Quote

Kaepernick isn't a SOB, he's just ignorant, like many people, about the true nature of police/black interactions, the amount of it, and the causes. He's protesting against something which largely doesn't exist - the police targeting of black people.

I disagree, but there's no point in trying to debate this again. The conclusions are too different to come to any reasonable consensus. I will say that Black people's interactions with police can't be fully captured by violent incident statistics. It's more anecdotal than that, which means it's hard to debate. 

The main narrative shift in Kaepernick is the BS that his protest was a slight against the Troops. That was dishonest bunk to silence him. 

Ditto with the All Lives Matter refrain. Saying All Lives Matter has become a Racist Dogwhistle. And good people don't say All Cancers Matter when someone is fundraising for Breast Cancer. 

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

And go where? Watch Hockey? Watch Basketball? Watch Soccer? 

Dunno, but NFL attendance and TV viewership has been steadily dropping the last few years.

4 hours ago, Boges said:

I disagree, but there's no point in trying to debate this again. The conclusions are too different to come to any reasonable consensus. I will say that Black people's interactions with police can't be fully captured by violent incident statistics. It's more anecdotal than that, which means it's hard to debate. 

If you have no data to support your theory then yes, it's going to be hard to debate against people who do. You're operating on your feelings which are based on the disproportionate media attention given to white police on black violence and I'm operating on the data and statistics.

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7 hours ago, Boges said:

Speaks to the same policing issues BLM talks about. 

Nope. OBLM only talks about blacks who have issues with police. To acknowledge that police also have unnecessarily harsh, negative outcomes in their dealing with white folks is verboten. 

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7 hours ago, Boges said:

Police Unions are a problem.

OMG we agree on something.

I think it's ridiculous that someone can be injured by police and the union will prevent justice from prevailing. 

Unions are supposed to protect people's health & safety, and even protect the guy who keeps accidentally dropping bags of flour at work. They're not supposed to give cops the freedom to rough guys up a bit if they so desire, and protect their jobs. 

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14 hours ago, Argus said:

Dunno, but NFL attendance and TV viewership has been steadily dropping the last few years.

If you have no data to support your theory then yes, it's going to be hard to debate against people who do. You're operating on your feelings which are based on the disproportionate media attention given to white police on black violence and I'm operating on the data and statistics.

The stats are there that show that black people are more likely based on their percentage of the population to be killed by police. 

But then you'll bring up violent crime stats and how black people are more likely to be involved in violent crime. Though the cases that are getting people upset involve unarmed black people getting killed by the police. 

Then I'll bring up poverty stats and incarceration for comparable crime stats. 

Then you'll bring up families without fathers stats or broken home statistics. 

Etc etc etc. 

It's a loop. And it doesn't change that this is how black people feel and a white person telling them that they're statistically wrong won't change that. 

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11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Nope. OBLM only talks about blacks who have issues with police. To acknowledge that police also have unnecessarily harsh, negative outcomes in their dealing with white folks is verboten. 

Police reform will involve all people. 

People forget the old man that was assaulted by police in Buffalo. That wasn't met well by the public either. 

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11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG we agree on something.

I think it's ridiculous that someone can be injured by police and the union will prevent justice from prevailing. 

Unions are supposed to protect people's health & safety, and even protect the guy who keeps accidentally dropping bags of flour at work. They're not supposed to give cops the freedom to rough guys up a bit if they so desire, and protect their jobs. 

Ultimately I'm a conservative. I'm just not "Conservative" on this issue. 

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41 minutes ago, Boges said:

The stats are there that show that black people are more likely based on their percentage of the population to be killed by police. 

But then you'll bring up violent crime stats and how black people are more likely to be involved in violent crime. Though the cases that are getting people upset involve unarmed black people getting killed by the police. 

14 unarmed black people were killed by police last year, a number which keeps declining. Meanwhile over 100 black people drowned. And overall, about 50 people die by lightning.

Blacks make up about 13% of the US population, which means blacks are twice as likely to be hit by lighting as they are to be killed by a cop if they're unarmed.

Oh, and about 7,000 black people were murdered, mostly by other black people.

By the way, about 47,000 people overdosed on opioids last year in the US. 6,000 of them were black.

So I guess what I'm saying to those people is to get a F-kin sense of proportion.

41 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's a loop. And it doesn't change that this is how black people feel and a white person telling them that they're statistically wrong won't change that. 

So what do you advise? Tell police to ignore black criminals? Because I gotta say, that's what some of them are starting to do. And so we're already seeing the murder rate skyrocket in a number of cities - mostly black people being killed by other black people. After the outrage over the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and all the investigations and haranguing of police, and changing of policies etc, the murder rate in Baltimore went up by over 50%, and has stayed high in the five years since then. Something like 1,000 extra people have been killed in Baltimore who would not have been had they not torn into their police department. Was it worth it?

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26 minutes ago, Argus said:

14 unarmed black people were killed by police last year, a number which keeps declining. Meanwhile over 100 black people drowned. And overall, about 50 people die by lightning.

Blacks make up about 13% of the US population, which means blacks are twice as likely to be hit by lighting as they are to be killed by a cop if they're unarmed.

Oh, and about 7,000 black people were murdered, mostly by other black people.

By the way, about 47,000 people overdosed on opioids last year in the US. 6,000 of them were black.

So I guess what I'm saying to those people is to get a F-kin sense of proportion.

Your quibbling with the straw that broke the camels back. It's a lot deeper than the inciting incident. Kind of like how WW1 really isn't about Franz Ferdinand. 

The real issue is mass incarceration of black people.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

And they aren't all in jail for violent crime. Many are in jail for things that White people do with impunity. 

The main thrust behind Defund the Police is that most of the root causes of crime in these communities are poverty and lack of opportunity due to over incarceration. More cops on the street ain't going to fix that, it's going to make it worse. 

Quote

So what do you advise? Tell police to ignore black criminals? Because I gotta say, that's what some of them are starting to do. And so we're already seeing the murder rate skyrocket in a number of cities - mostly black people being killed by other black people. After the outrage over the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and all the investigations and haranguing of police, and changing of policies etc, the murder rate in Baltimore went up by over 50%, and has stayed high in the five years since then. Something like 1,000 extra people have been killed in Baltimore who would not have been had they not torn into their police department. Was it worth it?

Do you consider having a counterfit $20 bill? Or Sleeping in your bed? Or having a Cap Gun? or Sleeping in a Drive Thru? Or even having a legal firearm? crimes worthy of being treated like a violent criminal? 

What upsets people is that in all these cases that make news. The cops escalated situations that were initially quite calm or kept going until the person was dead. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Boges said:

Your quibbling with the straw that broke the camels back. It's a lot deeper than the inciting incident. Kind of like how WW1 really isn't about Franz Ferdinand. 

The real issue is mass incarceration of black people.

Now you're changing the narrative. Okay. But here's the thing. When you, as a group, commit far more crime than other groups, then you're going to be imprisoned more often than other groups. Nevertheless, the imprisonment rate for blacks has been steadily declining. It is half what it was in the the 1980s and has dropped 20% in the last decade.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/30/shrinking-gap-between-number-of-blacks-and-whites-in-prison/

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

And they aren't all in jail for violent crime. Many are in jail for things that White people do with impunity. 

That might be the narrative, but it's not true.

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

The main thrust behind Defund the Police is that most of the root causes of crime in these communities are poverty and lack of opportunity due to over incarceration.

And they're wrong. Sowell makes it clear the main cause of poverty among blacks is the culture of single parenthood and of lack of respect for education. When he measured the American born children of black immigrants living in communities side by side other blacks he found they committed fewer crimes, finished high school more, went to college more, and were 58% more economically successful than other blacks. Why? Because they were raised with different cultural values by immigrant parents who valued education and disciplined their kids.

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

Do you consider having a counterfit $20 bill? Or Sleeping in your bed? Or having a Cap Gun? or Sleeping in a Drive Thru? Or even having a legal firearm? crimes worthy of being treated like a violent criminal? 

George Floyd was a scumbag. He had many interactions with police, was on fentanyl and meth and his death was an accident. Breonna Taylor was a tragedy, but no more so than Justine Damond. Rayshad Brooks was a scumbag with many interactions with police who had been serving a 7 year sentence for child cruelty and child abuse when released early due to covid. He was drunk driving when he fell asleep in that drive-in, fought violently with police, stripped one of their tazers, and fired it at his face. The world is better off with him dead.

When you have 800,000 armed police from thousands of departments, all with a wild variety of training - most of it inadequate - interacting hundreds of millions of times with the public every year there are going to be accidents, there are going to be overreactions, and there are going to be tragedies. But there's no evidence the deaths of any of the people above were due to racism. Plenty of whites are killed wrongfully by police too. You just don't hear about them because their deaths don't fit the media narrative.

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

What upsets people is that in all these cases that make news. The cops escalated situations that were initially quite calm or kept going until the person was dead.

See above. Poorly trained cops make mistakes all the time. The only difference is that these mistakes are always stated as caused by racism whenever they involve black people. Nobody suggests the cops who knelt on Tony Timpas while he died begging for his life - and laughed at him - were actually trying to kill him or thought they were doing so. Because he was white. But slide him out from under that knee and slide in a black man and "RACISM! THEY HATED HIM AND MURDERED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK!"

 

Until we get robocops that's going to continue to happen.

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

Police reform will involve all people. 

People forget the old man that was assaulted by police in Buffalo. That wasn't met well by the public either. 

Bullshit. BLM isn’t about police reform. It’s just a racist mob of angry losers who need a scapegoat for their miserable failures in life. 

Say Tony Timpa to an OBLaMa disciple and they won’t have a clue who he is, or they’ll freak out and say you’re off-topic. 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

Ultimately I'm a conservative. I'm just not "Conservative" on this issue. 

The topic of police unions is not a political issue at all. 

The topic of racism is highly politicized by the group that wants to divide the country, but that doesn’t mean that conservatives are in favour of racism or police brutality. 

If you look at the view from 20,000 feet, you can appreciate how all the things the Dems say and do actually keep black people down. 

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