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I am completely opposed to defacing and destroying any of these monuments. I feel that if they need to be removed, then sure, do it in a proper manner.  A museum should be built and all of those monuments can then be placed in it.  It's a scenario of, if history is not learned, then there is the risk of repeating it.  These monuments, like it or not, are part of US history, right or wrong.

The idiots tearing these down these things need to step back and really think about what the implications of those actions.  The mob mentality kicked in and I understand a Ghandi statue was defaced. Really? A Ghandi statue? 

There is a reason for the holocaust museum. So no one forgets the horrors of the past.  The same should be done here.

 

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3 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

...if history is not learned, then there is the risk of repeating it.  These monuments, like it or not, are part of US history, right or wrong.

This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment.  Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past.

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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment.  Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past.

I propose that Mount Rushmore gets blown up then.

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It depends what you mean by tearing down statues.  It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe.  How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat?

I can see the removal of statues based on consensus decided by the population and enacted by government, at any level.  I might not agree with it, but I disagree with most of what governments do so that wouldn't be a big deal.  I can see it in victory.  (I can't imagine the Soviets leaving the Swastika on top of the Reichstag when they took Berlin in 1945)

I just can't see a mob of nutjobs speaking for everybody with orgasmic acts of vandalism.

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20 hours ago, eyeball said:

This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment.  Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past.

It depends what you mean by tearing down statues.  It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe.  How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat?

I can see the removal of statues based on consensus decided by the population and enacted by government, at any level.  I might not agree with it, but I disagree with most of what governments do so that wouldn't be a big deal. 

I can see it in victory.  (I couldn't imagine the Allies leaving Swastikas on top of buildings when they overran Germany in 1945)

I just can't see a mob of nutjobs speaking for everybody with orgasmic acts of vandalism.

Edited by bcsapper
Wrong building - go figure
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1 hour ago, New World Disorder said:

I propose that Mount Rushmore gets blown up then.

I propose a better solution might be to defuse the anger acknowledge it's legitimacy and take strong visible action to mitigate it. 

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

It depends what you mean by tearing down statues.  It depends on how one feels about mobs, of any stripe.  How would you feel if a couple of PETA activists decided salmon were endangered and sank your boat?

It depends on what you mean by mob. If I was on my boat and a swarm of speedboats attacked me I suspect I'd be a little pissed off and probably a little scared.

It also depends on what you mean by salmon, there are 5 wild species and 1 introduced farm species.  If PETA decided wild salmon endangerment was now an issue in addition to ethics they'd be better off focusing on salmon farms, there's hardly enough commercial boats worth going after they're disappearing so fast.  These days activists educate consumers and lobby restaurants and the retail food industry to stop buying and serving wild chinook salmon for example due to starving Southern Resident orca who can't finding enough to sustain their population.

In any case my old commercial boat is not a statue its on the bottom so how much farther do you think it can be torn down?  The rigging finally disappeared from sight almost 10 years ago now.  

Edited by eyeball
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28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I propose a better solution might be to defuse the anger acknowledge it's legitimacy and take strong visible action to mitigate it. 

It is a better solution than defacing monuments. But if you have no affinity to any of the current statues and monuments, then maybe Mount Rushmore being defaced would be welcomed by these people. 

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8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It depends on what you mean by mob. If I was on my boat and a swarm of speedboats attacked me I suspect I'd be a little pissed off and probably a little scared.

It also depends on what you mean by salmon, there are 5 wild species and 1 introduced farm species.  If PETA decided wild salmon endangerment was now an issue in addition to ethics they'd be better off focusing on salmon farms, there's hardly enough commercial boats worth going after they're disappearing so fast.  These days activists educate consumers and lobby restaurants and the retail food industry to stop buying and serving wild chinook salmon for example due to starving Southern Resident orca who can't finding enough to sustain their population.

In any case my old commercial boat is not a statue its on the bottom so how much farther do you think it can be torn down?  The rigging finally disappeared from sight almost 10 years ago now.  

Shame about your boat.  I think the point you made about focus is well made.

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Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now I see Ghandi and even Stevie Ray Vaughn have been vandalized.  This isn't about slavery or BLM anymore, It's about remaking the USA into something else.

P.S - The statue of Valdimir Lenin in Seattle hasn't been touched

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2 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now I see Ghandi and even Stevie Ray Vaughn have been vandalized.  This isn't about slavery or BLM anymore, It's about remaking the USA into something else.

P.S - The statue of Valdimir Lenin in Seattle hasn't been touched

Stevie Ray Vaughan!!  What did he do?  Cultural appropriation?

Should I stop listening, for fear of being denounced?

Edited by bcsapper
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15 hours ago, eyeball said:

This risk is overblown and appeals to an unnecessary sentiment.  Monuments are not history in and of themselves and nothing is being forgotten. Tearing down statues commemorating individuals who wound up being on the wrong side of history do not erase history and individuals in the present have the opportunity to learn from those who didn't have the wisdom to choose the right side in the past.

This logic also comes from the same types of people who blacklisted folks that taught Marxism in the mid-20th century.  

True conservatives like me, luckily, will protect the marketplace of ideas.

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