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21 hours ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps if you, the common wheal, considered facts instead of indulging in anti-liberal hysteria, you'd not be so sick and appalled.  There will still be cops, but some services previously given to cops will be given to more appropriate services.  Wellness checks come to mind: checking on someone's wellbeing doesn't require guns or trigger happy cops. 

Yeah, I hear this a lot. But here's the problem. Police do wellness checks every day, thousands of them. You just never hear about them except for the very few which go wrong. And they generally go wrong because the person being checked on has a weapon and attacks them. So what do your social workers do in such a case? Talk them down? I've heard that one. In the UK a couple of weeks ago paramedics doing a wellness check were attacked by a frenzied man and stabbed repeatedly. He wasn't much into talking. Both of them were sent to hospital, one in critical condition. They only survived because - well, there was a cop there, too. He was in the back, by policy staying out of sight so as to not alarm the person having emotional issues. He was able to run in and save their lives, though. Just.

So we'll send police too? Okay. Makes sense. But then if you're cutting police budgets and still making them do wellness checks then... police are going to have significantly longer response times when people call for help.  We already have very few police here compared to other countries. The French, Italians and Spanish, for example, have well over twice as many police per 100k as we do. The British and Germans have far more, too. So how few police are you willing to get by with? Already police numbers are so low they basically don't investigate minor crimes at all, including burglaries, shoplifting, vandalism, purse snatchings, frauds, etc.

 

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I have no idea why you would respond to eyeball on this thread. I've never claimed policing is the most dangerous job around and, in fact, have stated that in previous years when I complain about how

Try to rise above what? Above reality? Above the truth, as evidenced in statistics? Above emotional twaddle based on history? Am I to feel guilt and shame over the historical plight of Black people in

We have already been over your tendency to want to make all things equal, when the issue is uncomfortable for the left. Both sides have always used twaddle, but not to the extent that we see today whe

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Do you express the same contempt for Conservatives when they're in power?

What if I did back then? Would it matter to these points we are making now? Not really. 

Or why do you think I am a complete partisan? Most Canadians are moderate and have both moderately left and right wing views. I care about things that dont fit your view of a conservative male. Like I care about the environment more than money.  I also want to defend the rights of individuals, or the one., over the will of the thronging hordes.

But come to think of it, I haven’t seen you come down off your horse yet on any issues. Come on over and give it a try, we dont bite.

 

 

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

What if I did back then? Would it matter to these points we are making now?

Not really, just curious.  I wasn't around when Conservatives were in power, so no idea what you might have posted.  Could look, I suppose, but not that curious.

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Or why do you think I am a complete partisan? 

Do I?  I seem to recall you as one of the more reasonable posters, a couple of years ago, though of a conservative bent.

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Most Canadians are moderate and have both moderately left and right wing views. 

Thats true. 

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Like I care about the environment more than money.  I also want to defend the rights of individuals, or the one., over the will of the thronging hordes.

So we agree on the first. 

I think there's nuance on the second.  I think individual rights are important, which is why I don't think cops should be killing people at the rate they do.  If there's a better way, it should be found.

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

But come to think of it, I haven’t seen you come down off your horse yet on any issues. Come on over and give it a try, we dont bite.

What would me "getting of my horse" and "coming on over" look like, I wonder.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I can't imagine why police have an issue with letting struggling suspects reach into their cars....

 

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On 8/7/2020 at 7:32 PM, OftenWrong said:

Both sides have always used twaddle, but not to the extent that we see today where it causes mass unrest, protests with vandalism and political leaders actually fan the flames of rioting burning and looting in the streets. 

Unclear to me if the protests in Kenosha marked a new level of unrest or not - I wasn't following the story that closely.  Nor was it a first when an alleged alt-right (and, this time, Trump fan) shot and killed people but what does seem to be a first is a FOX News commentator lauding him as a peace-keeper....

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/aug/26/tucker-carlson-kenosha-shooting-teen-kyle-rittenhouse

Another first is a president who stands to personally gain by sowing divisiveness and fear.  

Anyway, I feel I'm being generous with my 'both sides' take, which is rejected by some as 'not enough blaming'.  At some point soon, we will have street fighting with media taking sides to justify the actions of 'their' side.  People should ask themselves at what time they will start talking about 'both sides'.

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Unclear to me if the protests in Kenosha marked a new level of unrest or not - I wasn't following the story that closely.  Nor was it a first when an alleged alt-right (and, this time, Trump fan) shot and killed people but what does seem to be a first is a FOX News commentator lauding him as a peace-keeper....

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/aug/26/tucker-carlson-kenosha-shooting-teen-kyle-rittenhouse

 

Notice how he even said the word murder. 

 

 

He then added: “So are we really surprised that looting and arson accelerated to murder? How shocked are we that 17-year-olds with rifles decided they had to maintain order when no one else would?”

 

What type of a person can justify a murder in any circumstance?   

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Just now, Cannucklehead said:

What type of a person can justify a murder in any circumstance?   

When it's war.  You see, people who protest police violence are lying: they really want to loot and destroy America and kill.

Therefore, we need to allow individual citizens to go and shoot them to maintain order.

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1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

When it's war.  You see, people who protest police violence are lying: they really want to loot and destroy America and kill.

Therefore, we need to allow individual citizens to go and shoot them to maintain order.

I guess tucker is promoting the boogaloo movement then? 

The fact that the kid gave water to riot police proves they had no reason to be there other than to kill people.  Plus they said he was wearing latex gloves to prevent powder residue on his hands. 

Premeditated??? 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

He then added: “So are we really surprised that looting and arson accelerated to murder? How shocked are we that 17-year-olds with rifles decided they had to maintain order when no one else would?”

 

What type of a person can justify a murder in any circumstance?   

His question seems straightforward. No need to twist it into something else to use against him.

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50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

When it's war.  You see, people who protest police violence are lying: they really want to loot and destroy America and kill.

Therefore, we need to allow individual citizens to go and shoot them to maintain order.

I think most normal people can see what's going on here. CNN and the spinmasters can't pull the wool over people's eyes. Their ratings are a statement that people aren't interested in the messaging.

The message from the right media is that the left is ignoring this problem, and in some cases even cheering it in as an example of the kind of USA under Trump. They lie as it's their supporters who are doing the rioting, looting and burning. People who try to protect their homes are being attacked, and leadership is not stepping up to protect them. That's where the position of the left falls down. 

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1 hour ago, Cannucklehead said:

I guess tucker is promoting the boogaloo movement then? 

The fact that the kid gave water to riot police proves they had no reason to be there other than to kill people.  Plus they said he was wearing latex gloves to prevent powder residue on his hands. 

Premeditated??? 

Charged with first-degree murder so the state suspects so.

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I think most normal people can see what's going on here. CNN and the spinmasters can't pull the wool over people's eyes. Their ratings are a statement that people aren't interested in the messaging.

2. The message from the right media is that the left is ignoring this problem, and in some cases even cheering it in as an example of the kind of USA under Trump.  

1. Yes - CNN is to blame because of their poor ratings.  Why was I calling for both sides to examine themselves ?  My my... I must have been mad...
2. Tucker Carlson seems to be excusing a murderer and nothing from you.    You are part of the problem, since you can't find anything on the right to criticize.  Here we have a mainstream media figure excusing murder and you say the left is cheering on the violence.  Oh well, I tried with you I really did.
 

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44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes - CNN is to blame because of their poor ratings.  Why was I calling for both sides to examine themselves ?  My my... I must have been mad...
2. Tucker Carlson seems to be excusing a murderer and nothing from you.    You are part of the problem, since you can't find anything on the right to criticize.  Here we have a mainstream media figure excusing murder and you say the left is cheering on the violence.  Oh well, I tried with you I really did.
 

Why are you putting the cart before the horse. CNN's poor ratings are not the cause but the effect. 

Why are you calling out both sides? I have no idea. I am calling out the cheerleaders of lawlessness and murder. That is my position. I think if you look in that regard you do see a problem. The insane element of the left which hates trump purely reactively, in principle, wants to portray the violence as a political lever against him. 

Also, do not think the efforts to block police from cracking down on rioters who attack anyone walking by, etc., goes unnoticed. Hence my opening remark, I think most normal people can see what's going on.

Tucker who.

Based on above quoted shippet,  here's what I take away. "Is it any wonder that people in the US will get their guns out on a night like this, in case the shit hits the fan? Of course not."

Now what, I condone murder?

Please. :rolleyes:

Please try harder to demonize people over the slightest inflection of the tone in their voice. 

I am a bad, angry man.

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Its one thing to take out your guns to defend yourself or your business, its another to drive to another state to do so.  

He was arrested in his home state of Illinois, not Wisconsin.  

 

 

“So people are getting injured and our job is to protect this business,” Mr Rittenhouse said. “And part of my job is to also help people. If there is somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way. That’s why I have my rifle because I need to protect myself, obviously. I also have my med kit.”

 

His job??  Who's paying him?  Isn't that why the city pays riot police?  

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10 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

“So people are getting injured and our job is to protect this business,” Mr Rittenhouse said. “And part of my job is to also help people. If there is somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way. That’s why I have my rifle because I need to protect myself, obviously. I also have my med kit.”

 

His job??  Who's paying him?  Isn't that why the city pays riot police?  

Defunding police leads to this power vacuum. Welcome to the dark side. Freaks come out, yeah the freaks come out at night...

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4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Defunding police leads to this power vacuum. Welcome to the dark side. Freaks come out, yeah the freaks come out at night...

How does a power vacuum include riot police driving around in an apc?    Did the cops win a lottery or something?  

This seems like the kid and his buddies were just itching for some action and thought they could get away with anything because they were not local.  

I hope the judge feeds him to the wolves.  

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4 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

I hope the judge feeds him to the wolves.  

I don't react that way. I hope the judge gives the case due process and applies the appropriate penalty he or she sees fit. In principle I support the notion of upholding law, if we want to have a civil society. That's kind of a no-brainer, although there seems to be confusion about this coming from the left.

In short, their bullshit has brought themselves into a corner. Appealing to civil disorder is a rather indefensible position to take as politician, with an election coming up in few weeks. Essentially voting Biden is condoning these actions. To wantonly tear down or not tear down America is what's on the table.

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48 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I am calling out the cheerleaders of lawlessness and murder.  

2. Tucker who.

3.  Now what, I condone murder?

4. Please try harder to demonize people over the slightest inflection of the tone in their voice. 

5. I am a bad, angry man.

1. Tucker Carlson too ?
2. Carlson
3. Excusing it, condoning it...
4. You can't see it because you see it as a message from your own tribe.
5. No - just part of the problem.  You have different standards for people based on who you think they vote for.

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Tucker Carlson too ?
2. Carlson
3. Excusing it, condoning it...
4. You can't see it because you see it as a message from your own tribe.
5. No - just part of the problem.  You have different standards for people based on who you think they vote for.

Ad hominems and not listening to my message. Looks more like youre the problem. Dont talk about me, speak t the topic. Otherwise dont waste my time. Get lost.

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Below is the report issued by the Special Investigation Unit on the death of Ms. Korchinski-Paquet - the woman who accidentally fell from a balcony in Toronto.

The Family

https%3A%2F%2Fi.cbc.ca%2F1.5651539.15948

 

Of note are the 911 calls which I insert here.  CW #7 is the mother.

911 Call Recordings [3]

A total of five 911 calls were made between Ms. Korchinski-Paquet, and her mother and brother.

In the initial call, at 5:13 p.m., CW #7 said she needed the police at her home. When asked what the problem was, she said, “My son and daughter are fighting,” and that her daughter was throwing bottles at the time. Yelling was heard in the background. CW #7 said she only needed police to attend and said, “You can take them both the hell out of here. I can’t do it no more. I’m done,” and, “I want them both gone out of my fucking house.”

At about this point in the recording, a second 911 call was received, this one from Ms. Korchinski-Paquet.

Still in the initial call, CW #7 again asked for the police to attend immediately. She maintained the open line while yelling was heard between a number of individuals. When the call-taker asked what was going on, CW #7 said, “Listen, my son and daughter are fighting and I can’t take it. I’m a [age]-year-old woman and I’m too small... My son and daughter. My house is all broke up. And I can’t do this no more and I won’t. Too old. I’m a [age]-year-old woman.”

CW #7 identified her children as Regis Korchinski-Paquet and CW #2.

While on the call, CW #7 yelled at someone, “Get out of my fucking house,” “Never come back to my fucking house. Never,” and, “You will never get back in my house. Ever.”

When asked if anyone was injured, CW #7 said, “Yea I guess somebody’s injured. I don’t know.” When asked if she needed an ambulance, CW #7 said, “I don’t know if I need an ambulance because I left my house. I can’t stand in there. I’m [age] years old.”

CW #7 also told the call-taker, “They got into an argue [sic] and all I know a fight broke out. They were just fighting and I - like I seen it too many times and I can’t deal with it no more.” When asked what they fought over, CW #7 said,

“My daughter had a seizure this morning and so this is how, basically, it all started. And he knows just to leave her alone. But now she’s calling me all kinds of names, calling me a bitch and everything else, right. So, I don’t want her -- I want the police to take -- literally take her out of my house. I don’t want her here. I don’t want no kids living in my house… Okay. She’s got to go tonight.”

When asked again if an ambulance was needed, CW #7 said, “I just want the both of them out of my house. I don’t want no contact with neither one of them again.”

When asked if anyone had weapons, CW #7 said,

“No, no weapons. But bottles were thrown, knives were pulled out, my -- punches in the face. All kinds of foolishness… I don’t know who treats people like this. Glass is all over in front of my door, they broke bottles. Like just no -- no respect. And -- neither one of them can stay here. I just want the police to come and I don’t care where you take either one of them but I don’t ever want them back here. None of them. I don’t care where they go to live but they’re not coming here. I’m done.”


Ms. Korchinski-Paquet placed the second 911 call. At 5:15 p.m., while her mother was on a separate 911 call, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said she needed police to attend as she was being attacked. Panting, she said, “I can’t breathe,” and that her brother attacked her. She said she needed an ambulance to attend and yelled at someone, “You can’t get in you dumb fuck.”

Shortly after the end of that call, a third 911 call was placed. CW #7 was still on her call when CW #2 called 911. He requested police attend as “there’s a physical altercation between me and my sister.” He said, “She initiated the assault with two knives, right. But I also did protect myself, right. So. But I’m not going anywhere. I’m going to stay right here.” He said he was in the stairwell while his mother was in the corridor and his sister was in the apartment with two knives and broken bottles. When asked if anyone was injured, he said he was but did not need an ambulance.

CW #2 said this was not the first time this occurred, and that they fought over the television volume being too loud. He said his sister had two epileptic seizures that day, and that they have to leave the apartment after she experiences seizures so she can calm down. On this day, she had not calmed when they returned.

He identified his sister as Regis Korchinski-Paquet and said he had taken the knives from her and throw them into the apartment before he exited. To the best of his knowledge, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet had the knives in the apartment.

When asked if Ms. Korchinski-Paquet had any mental issues, CW #2 said, “Not that she’s diagnosed with, no. Besides – besides the elepsy [sic], right. It’s a health condition.” When asked if anyone consumed alcohol or drugs, he said, “No. No. My sister has been smoking weed. That’s about it. Nobody else has. But she smokes weed because she’s epileptic, right. So, it’s not like she been doing it for, to get high or anything like that. She’s been doing it for pain, right.”

The fourth 911 call was received at 5:22 p.m. from Ms. Korchinski-Paquet while her brother was still on the third 911 call and her mother was on her initial call.

In her second 911 call, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said, “I need to call the police. My mom just attacked me.” When asked if anyone needed an ambulance, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said, “I’m not sure. I can’t even speak right now but my mother she just attacked me and so did my brother.” She said when she told her brother to turn off the television, he jumped up and started punching her in the head and choking her. When asked if any weapons were involved, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said, “Yes. They – they – they pulled out knives.”

In response to an inquiry whether children were present, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said there were as her brother just moved in with his children. With respect to whether anyone had been drinking alcohol or using drugs, she said, “Yes, my brother and my mother both have been drinking. They’ve been drinking all morning and smoking weed.” When asked about her own drug use, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said she was only taking magnesium for her seizures. When asked if anyone was diagnosed with mental health issues, Ms. Korchinski-Paquet said, “Me. Yes. I have epilepsy.”

Ms. Korchinski-Paquet placed a fifth 911 call at 5:30 p.m. By this time, police were already on scene. She identified herself as Regis Korchinski-Paquet and said she was just attacked, punched and choked by her mother and brother, who had been drinking since 10:00 a.m. She said, “I need to pee. I have to piss,” before ending the call.

Subsequent to these calls, a number of 911 callers reported Ms. Korchinski-Paquet’s fall.

www.siu.on.ca/en/directors_report_details.php?drid=908

 

Edited by mowich
To include an important point.
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