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Covid Is Turning Us Into a Socialist/Fascist Country


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On 8/21/2020 at 11:49 PM, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/lacking-constitutional-protection-governments-routinely-trample-property-rights
Trudeau had pushed for property rights as justice minister in 1968, again as prime minister in 1969, and in 1980 during constitutional talks. But property rights never made it into the final 1982 Charter because Trudeau and Bill Bennett, then-Premier of British Columbia, were the lone advocates.

Thank you very much for digging that all out.   Bennet I could see, but I am shocked that Trudeau - a genuine card carrying communist - would ever stoop to recognizing that the people of Canada might want to have some rights and privileges not exactly in line with his "Just Society" (which generally meant once he was finished with Canada, there would be nothing left, just society).

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By the time covid is gone, the enduring legacy of it will be: 1) Massive carnage among small to medium businesses, while mega-corporations like Home Depot, FB and Amazon experience growth  2

I think the planning and organization required to pull off a world wide pandemic in order to implement (Fascism? Socialism? Communism?) in Canada is well beyond the capabilities of our Government, or

Long time lurker, posting first time as driven by my need to address a perceived problem with the narrative.   Am I expected to believe that any data regarding infection rates or deaths is s

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On 8/21/2020 at 3:45 PM, WestCanMan said:

Yeah ok cougar. You can't point to a single thing that isn't 100% accurate, you're gonna take your ball and go home, but I'm the one who's digging himself in deeper :lol: 

You state that the current COVID19 plans and action of our government somehow favor the big monopolistic organizations tipping the scales in their favor to the point where small businesses disappear.

Don't we have the same COVID support programs for all kinds of businesses in need?

Big businesses (supposedly richer) have always had a better chance of withstanding a crisis longer than a small business.   We have had those monopolies before the pandemic.

What exactly is the big difference now, according to you, which it turning us into a socialist country?

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1 minute ago, Shady said:

But I thought prisons were letting felons out of prison because of covid?

Only for violent crimes.  Non violent offenders can still be jailed.

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21 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Only for violent crimes.  Non violent offenders can still be jailed.

Wait what?  If you raped somebody you get released because they don’t want you to catch covid?  But if you’re a business owner and open up without authorization or something, you can be jailed and they don’t care if you catch covid?  Wtf is going on with society?

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2 hours ago, Shady said:

Wait what?  If you raped somebody you get released because they don’t want you to catch covid?  But if you’re a business owner and open up without authorization or something, you can be jailed and they don’t care if you catch covid?  Wtf is going on with society?

Well, I was joking, but you might be right.  I didn't check into it or anything.

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7 hours ago, dialamah said:

I think any prison sentence is more threat than promise.  Fines serm more practical.  

Seems Madam?

Whatever things seem, it's irrelevant. Other than that it gives you comfort to think so. The law gives them this authority. It's a new thing, not like some old law that's a legacy that judges ignore, this is now.

I provide a cite and you come back with your feelings and what you think seems to be practical.

Please chime in again later when you and Cannuckhead can make more shrill accusations of my baseless claims.

 

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

1.  Whatever things seem, it's irrelevant. Other than that it gives you comfort to think so.

2.  The law gives them this authority. It's a new thing, not like some old law that's a legacy that judges ignore, this is now.

3.  I provide a cite and you come back with your feelings and what you think seems to be practical.

4.  Please chime in again later when you and Cannuckhead can make more shrill accusations of my baseless claims.

1. Neither holding not attending large parties, so no comfort needed here.

2.  True.  Still, I doubt we'll see anyone in jail over it.  Littering has a fine of up to $2,000 and jail sentence of up to six months, but nobody has ever gone to jail for littering, though plenty have been fined.

3.  Did you post a cite?  I was unaware; was commenting as a result of posts made by Sapper and Shady.

4.  You maybe should try taking things a little less personally.

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21 hours ago, cougar said:

You state that the current COVID19 plans and action of our government somehow favor the big monopolistic organizations tipping the scales in their favor to the point where small businesses disappear.

Don't we have the same COVID support programs for all kinds of businesses in need?

Big businesses (supposedly richer) have always had a better chance of withstanding a crisis longer than a small business.   We have had those monopolies before the pandemic.

What exactly is the big difference now, according to you, which it turning us into a socialist country?

I'm not saying that I have every single answer to every single thing that's going on.

I'm saying that the end result of C-19 looks a lot more socialist/fascist than Jan 2020 did, and I'm sure that there are a lot of people who are benefitting from the shutdowns who are pushing hard for another round.

Worldometer says that there are only 4,000 covid cases in our entire country, but there's still a lot of talk that we're probably headed for another lockdown.

Like I've been saying since the beginning, I would rather get this iteration of covid than wait to see what's behind door #2. I don't want any lockdowns.

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COVID-19 seems to be one of those "crises" being used as a reason for governments to take away freedom and spend crazy amounts of money. 

My theory is that we have been in a record breaking debt bubble for many years now..around the world..notably the western world. Central bankers were starting to get worried again last fall hence the stress int he repo market. They all know the end game of their debt bubble that they created will be a massive crash. The only way to keep the game going is to inject more and more debt into the system. But they need an excuse..a "crisis" to do so..voila..along comes COVID-19 which really is not so deadly but the powers that be used their media clout to scare the crap out of everyone. This allowed them to print trillions in a few months in the USA to once again prop up this gigantic bubble. At some point the bubble will pop..this year..next year..maybe in 5 years..and they will blame it all on COVID-19..not the irresponsible actions of the central bankers who most people think are geniuses. 

Lockdowns also allow government to control society more.take away rights..make people dependant..its a total disaster and it will end so badly..its going to be something to watch..

 

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4 minutes ago, wxman52 said:

1. My theory is that we have been in a record breaking debt bubble for many years now..around the world..notably the western world. Central bankers were starting to get worried again last fall hence the stress int he repo market. They all know the end game of their debt bubble that they created will be a massive crash. The only way to keep the game going is to inject more and more debt into the system.
2. COVID-19 which really is not so deadly
 

 

1. Your theory is a retarded one - known as a 'conspiracy theory'.  Central Bankers got together and hired some biologists to foist bio warfare on themselves, their countrymen and their families.
2. 800K dead and counting...

 

Your post really explains itself, which is likely why you actually don't need a cite for it.

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800K sounds like a lot but out of 7 billion people its tiny. And lets keep in mind that 80-90 percent of deaths are people over 70 and especially 80 already with serious health conditions. How many of these people would have been alive in 6 months or a year..I know it sounds cruel..but it is what it is. 

I feel the government could have spent far less money that they have and instead funnelled tens of billions of dollars into the nursing homes to properly deal with COVID-19. Wit more staff, better trained staff, better supervision, higher paid staff, and proper protocols and equipment many countries including Canada would have cut the death rate by over 50 percent while at the same time keeping most of the economy going. 

The reality from all the numbers out there..just have a look..is that people under 50 and even 60 have very low risk of anything serious from this virus so why is everyone paying the price for this. We cant afford to throw 400 billion dollars out the window to pay young people to do nothing while small businesses struggle to survive. How many health procedures were cancelled because of COVID which indirectly will kill countless other people. How many people have lost their jobs and businesses because of the lockdown which will also cause some people to die or become sick. A lot of people die from other things than COVID but when you have the media talk nonstop about it of course everyone will freak out. How many children were deprived of an education when they have next to no risk from this virus. Meanwhile the swine flu which can be quite serious for young people we did nothing..nothing. 

How do you think the health care system in Canada will be funded over the next 20-50 years now that we just added 400 billion dollars to the debt. You dont think that maybe that might compromise health care and other social programs which will actually kill people. Instead lets all freak out and obsess about COVID while we burn our house down..bravo..

 

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5 hours ago, dialamah said:

1. Neither holding not attending large parties, so no comfort needed here.

2.  True.  Still, I doubt we'll see anyone in jail over it.  Littering has a fine of up to $2,000 and jail sentence of up to six months, but nobody has ever gone to jail for littering, though plenty have been fined.

3.  Did you post a cite?  I was unaware; was commenting as a result of posts made by Sapper and Shady.

4.  You maybe should try taking things a little less personally.

Again it's not about me, and yes I did provide a cite as I often do.

Let me know when you and cannunklehead have some. I await to be well informed...

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Swine flu killed far less with way more infections.  284,000 deaths with infections somewhere between 700 million and 1.4 billion.

 

So far covid has 23.4 mil cases and 800,000 deaths.  If we didn't take precautions and lock downs, etc then we'd be way past the 1 million mark for sure.  

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Swine flu killed way more people under the age of 60 than COVID has..many healthy people and children as well so it was a lot scarier in that sense. COVID typically kills very old and sick people who likely had little time left anyway..I know some people will find my remarks harsh but that is more or less the sad reality. Many people who died of COVID this year likely would have died within 6-12 months. 

If you look at the statistics in North America or Europe the vast majority of deaths are in people over 70 and even 80 and often with serious health issues. So what we should have done from the beginning was put resources into the nursing homes and protect the elderly and other vulnerable people. Instead we shut everything down and put tons of resources into hospitals and little into nursing homes..many of the hospitals were even quieter than usual in Canada as so many surgeries and other important treatments were cancelled. 

Again, how many people will die because of the governments response to COVID. Millions more people have been pushed into extreme poverty and many will die of starvation because of COVID policies...https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/

Of course the western world only cares about its own so this is barely noted. But just in our own country the number of people who will permanently lose jobs and businesses will have a devastating effect on the health and well being of thousands of people with some indirectly dying. How many cancer treatments were delayed or cancelled..how many people will die from this?? The addition of a mind boggling 400 billion dollars in debt just to the federal debt..not counting the tens of billions in debt each province has added and then the cities. Our health care system was already horrible before COVID..where will the money come from to fund it now over the next 50 years??? How about our social programs..infrastructure..where will the money come from..we just added 50 percent to the national debt in 6 months..it took us 50 years to get to 700 billion and in 6 months we added 400 billion..its ludicrous. Much of this money was to pay people to sit at home doing nothing. Instead we should have put billions in the nursing homes and properly kept those people protected..we blew it there and then on top of it we messed up everyone elses lives and for what??? The vast majority of people under 60 have little consequences to this virus..

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One thing that is upsetting about the Post-Covid world is businesses that just can't provide comparable value and enjoyment in a Social Distancing world. 

I cancelled my Gym membership today. I'm not waiting in line to use the Gym at 5pm, I'm not wearing a mask while exercising, I'm not waiting to use a machine because only every other machine gets used. 

And the 2 months it was closed completely got me out of the habit and adapted to other ways to get physical activity. 

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Long time lurker, posting first time as driven by my need to address a perceived problem with the narrative.

 

Am I expected to believe that any data regarding infection rates or deaths is somehow sacrosanct; immune to the laws of probability and margin of error?

Seems to me we have no hard empirical evidence of rates of infection .. Population testing samples are quite small, and seemingly the basis for some creative extrapolative modelling. Modelling that to this date has been proven to be absolutely jaw-droppingly wrong.

We have what,  a 10% tested population ? With a virus that is chimeric, proven to have already mutated, and paired with a test failure rate that provides no surety of any accuracy?  I would think that any claims of knowing real infection rate or actual mortality are suspect pending a much more complete testing regimen. We simply can't know given our current coverage. The margins of error are gigantic.  Not quite as gigantic as the current hysteria and resulting opportunistic attempts at control, but in the same ballpark.

Perhaps a more  prudent discussion  would be that it isn't whether or not attempts at totalitarian levels of control have occurred, they demonstrably have, but whether or not those attempts are justified in the name of public health.

 

"It's for your own good." - Every tinpot dictator ever.

 

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46 minutes ago, Satan's Lawyer said:

Long time lurker, posting first time as driven by my need to address a perceived problem with the narrative.

Am I expected to believe that any data regarding infection rates or deaths is somehow sacrosanct; immune to the laws of probability and margin of error?

Seems to me we have no hard empirical evidence of rates of infection .. Population testing samples are quite small, and seemingly the basis for some creative extrapolative modelling. Modelling that to this date has been proven to be absolutely jaw-droppingly wrong.

We have what,  a 10% tested population ? With a virus that is chimeric, proven to have already mutated, and paired with a test failure rate that provides no surety of any accuracy?  I would think that any claims of knowing real infection rate or actual mortality are suspect pending a much more complete testing regimen. We simply can't know given our current coverage. The margins of error are gigantic.  Not quite as gigantic as the current hysteria and resulting opportunistic attempts at control, but in the same ballpark.

Perhaps a more  prudent discussion  would be that it isn't whether or not attempts at totalitarian levels of control have occurred, they demonstrably have, but whether or not those attempts are justified in the name of public health.

"It's for your own good." - Every tinpot dictator ever.

That inaccuracy works both ways. How often was a pneumonia death not recorded as a COVID-19 related death? 

You can pretty much ignore reported totals from developed countries and authoritarian countries as they likely are under reporting because there isn't testing infrastructure or the government doesn't want to release damning statistics (Russia and China) 

I noted in a status update recently that the efforts in New Zealand to clamp down on minor spikes are more than heavy handed, approaching fascism. 

But in mid-March the example of Italy, Spain and New York City made the rest of the developed world react. Hospitals were overwhelmed with the sick and morbid decisions had to be made on who lived and who ddied. I think, in that instance, public health had it right. We certainly weren't conditioned to treat the virus like we are now. So everything was shut down for a month or so before slowly opening again. 

In July we saw similar things happening in Florida, California, Texas and Arizona. Hospitals were at capacity so governments rolled back some freedoms and rates are now dropping. 

There's a fine balance between good public health and fascism. 

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On 8/23/2020 at 6:49 PM, Shady said:

 

The last stage before A depression is money printing. We are in that stage right now. The government can't fulfill all their obligations Debt repayment Pensions etc. Its going to be brutal.

Canada might try and increase immigration....This will delay the reckoning further...If you don't count overcrowded transit roads hospitals etc......Its a pyramid scheme......

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On 8/3/2020 at 11:02 AM, WestCanMan said:

By the time covid is gone, the enduring legacy of it will be:

1) Massive carnage among small to medium businesses, while mega-corporations like Home Depot, FB and Amazon experience growth 

2) Twice as many deaths as a regular flu season, but almost exclusively in the very elderly demographic. People of middle age or lower will have very few deaths, and there will be less than 1% of the deaths of a regular flu season among children. (Less people will die of covid in the US this year than die of medical mistakes every single year, and at the height of the covid 'pandemic' in BC, more people died of fentanyl than covid. Yet covid dominates 70% of our newscasts as if it's the biggest killer ever, and everywhere we go we are indoctrinated in the fear of covid)

3) The government has effectively used the MSM as a fear-mongering tool to exert a huge amount of control over us, possibly even forcing vaccinations on every single one of us, even though nothing that they have said and done during the Covid scare has made any sense. Remember that liberal politicians on both sides of the border did everything possible to kill people via covid at the outset - now they all act like they're the champions of the cause. They did things like oppose travel bans, encourage large gatherings in Feb and March, encourage rioting & looting (large groups of people in close proximity exerting themselves and looting buildings), told people NOT to wear masks, put infected people into care homes... (Honestly, lib sycos need to look over that list and try to find a single example of me not being 100% correct - and what I'm saying is = "Libs/Dems intentionally killed tens of thousands of people").  There's no room left for stupidity as an excuse, the overall pattern is too overwhelming.

 

When you look at #s 1 & 3, you can see how covid has been a blessing to a small few elite companies, and how they could easily see the value of promoting C19 hysteria. FB and other social media, busier and more profitable than ever during covid, are all notorious for shutting down all talk of HCQ, and are pro-vaccination. Social media and the MSM are acting as the book-burners and brownshirts of the covid fascism. The government has even allied themselves with agents of social chaos/terrorism in Antifa and BLM. 

 

And at the end of the day, when you look at all the things that are wrong with fascism/communism/socialism, compare the actions of the liberal NA gov'ts with the rise of Hitler, Stalin, etc (dither about the differences between fascists and communists all you want, a lot of the evil things they did were achieved the same way) and you see a lot of similarities: The government is killing the entrepreneurial spirit of the country (more gently than true communists) and narrowing down the economy to fewer companies which all promote their screed, stripping away individual rights and freedoms, exercising extreme control over the main societal narratives through their modern-day brownshirts (FB, Antifa, BLM, state-controlled media, etc), pushing false narratives to divide the people, diminishing the power of legitimate policing, increased dependance on the gov't by citizens, etc. The attack on police, by malcontent losers and the liberal government, is outright disgusting. 

The complete frenzy that liberals go into when you say HCQ is very telling. They don't want a cheap, off-patent drug to protect us from the monster that is covid, which could eventually kill 0.05% of us if we're not careful. We will have our freedoms severely limited if we don't take their precious vaccine - no flights, can't visit or work in certain places, etc. 

Well, the pushers and creators of this Convid 19 lie are at it once again. I knew that this Convid lie would start all over again this fall. We are once again being told by our dear comrade political leaders and the lying leftist lieberal media that this Convid 19 virus is back again and that we all must once again endure a winter of forced face diaper wearing masks, keep your distance, isolation, lock downs, and contract tracing. There is no pandemic going on here. How much more will it take for the fools out there to wake up and see as to what is going on here.

I see more fools than ever these days wearing masks everywhere now. They just wake up in the morning and put their diaper on before they go out. It's becoming the new norm now. And there can be no doubt about it that once a vaccine comes out the lineups will begin. You know Canadians? Always ready and willing zombies to do as they are told to do. 

There can be no doubt about it that Canada is fast becoming a fascist or communist state. This Convid 19 farce is doing just that. Turning Canada into a communist slave state and it's citizen's as communist slaves. This has nothing to do with a virus at all but more to do with seeing how much most people will accept having their rights and freedoms to be taken away from them without a whimper by their so called dear leader politicians who are just loving all this power and glory and control that has been handed to them on a gold platter.

I thought that Doug Ford was a real conservative but I was wrong. That fool is just as bad as the other treasonous political party's and politicians out there in Canukistan land. We the sheeple are surrounded by traitors to Canada. Sad, but oh so true. :( 

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On 8/28/2020 at 10:26 AM, onlythetruthmatters said:

The last stage before A depression is money printing. We are in that stage right now. The government can't fulfill all their obligations Debt repayment Pensions etc. Its going to be brutal.

Canada might try and increase immigration....This will delay the reckoning further...If you don't count overcrowded transit roads hospitals etc......Its a pyramid scheme......

It is this massive third world immigration into Canada that has been costing the Canadian taxpayer hundreds of billions of their tax dollars being blown on the many socialist and communist programs that these new immigrants now get to enjoy. They are sucking our economy dry. There can be no doubt about it that there are hundreds of thousands of these new immigrants that should not be here at all. Canada needs a moratorium on immigration for at least ten years to try and get it's fiscal house in order otherwise things will only get worse. Believe it or not. :unsure:

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54 minutes ago, taxme said:

It is this massive third world immigration into Canada that has been costing the Canadian taxpayer hundreds of billions of their tax dollars being blown on the many socialist and communist programs that these new immigrants now get to enjoy. They are sucking our economy dry. There can be no doubt about it that there are hundreds of thousands of these new immigrants that should not be here at all. Canada needs a moratorium on immigration for at least ten years to try and get it's fiscal house in order otherwise things will only get worse. Believe it or not. :unsure:

What exactly are “the many socialist and communist programs” you’re referring to and what evidence do you have that these programs are being used primarily by “third world immigrants” or that these programs cost “hundreds of billions of dollars”?

These claims sound suspicious. 

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