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How does democracy survive a world of stupid people?


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Anti-mask types were protesting on Parliament Hill the other day. They weren't alone, as tens of thousands of others protested in other countries. You can find videos of screaming, ranting, furious and even violent people who don't want to wear a mask all over the internet. You can also find, in great numbers, people who don't believe in vaccines, who believe they cause autism or any manner of other problems. Flat earthers are making a comeback, as incredible as that is to believe. And then we've got these 'anti-racism' loons, parading through cities, screaming in people's faces, attacking people, burning and looting stores outraged beyond bearing by police shootings which so far have no evidence of racism behind them.

Donald Trump's electoral fortunes are looking up, his poll numbers rising, which is an astonishing thing given his incompetence and demonstrated idiocy. And this is due, in no small part, to the idiots screaming through cities about racism - who despise him. Yes, not only are they demonstrating against police racism in the shooting of black people despite no evidence of racism, but they're doing it to the benefit of an administration they despise and loath. If Trump gets re-elected it will be in large measure due to BLM and ANTIFA.

And dumb. Dumb people voting for dumb people. There are people who would crawl through a valley of glass to vote for Trump. There are frenzied Trump supporters covering their entire lawns and houses with Trump signs, putting Trump signs on their cars and trucks and bodies. Most of these people still have the bizarre belief he cares about them despite him putting in four years demonstrating he does not, and doing absolutely nothing for them other than taking away their health care.

Trudeau is most definitely not a smart guy. Those around him don't seem to be very bright either. Gerald Butts spent a decade trying to destroy Ontario's economy with green initiatives which almost all failed miserably. Has that warned anyone away? Nope. Now he and Trudeau are closeted together, eagerly putting together even bigger green initiatives to destroy Canada's economy. All despite the fact nothing Canada does - including disappearing off the face of the Earth - is going to have any noticeable impact on global warming/climate change. While the world builds hundreds of coal fired power plants a year Canada will bankrupt itself trying to be green.

Dumb. Everywhere you go you see this sea of dumb. And most of it is 'educated'. Now educated doesn't meant what it used to mean. Educated used to mean a person who had a degree of sophistication which came from an education which was wide and deep. Today our universities are trade schools with a narrow focus, and which are filled with ideologues of the far Left far more intent on indoctrinating the young with their bizarre and unworkable beliefs than in actually educating them. Thus students emerge with a vast knowledge of ideologically bred beliefs which are almost all without any foundation or evidence. Doesn't matter. They believe it all with the devotion of the religious fanatic.

Schools and universities have failed us. They have produced a legion of  people far dumber and less knowledgeable than their parents and grandparents, and the consequences for democracies are likely to be the end of democracies.

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Schools and universities have failed us. They have produced a legion of  people far dumber and less knowledgeable than their parents and grandparents, and the consequences for democracies are likely to be the end of democracies.

Pew found that its the older, and  less educated people who vote for Trump.  Pew also tells us that its the less educated who are more likely to be anti-vaxxers.   

This article, from the Economist (rated least biased an Mediabiasfactcheck) provides a more in-depth analysis of who tends to believe in conspiracy theories and the trend remains that better educated people (college graduates) are less likely to believe or spread misinformation.  

There's a lot more nuance in this artice, but the author agrees with your conclusion that disaster may be looming.  However, they fail to lay blame at the foot of any particular group.

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Donald Trump's electoral fortunes are looking up, his poll numbers rising, 

I didn't find any proof of that; it seemed more that his ratings remain the same.

We'll never agree on the racism bit, so I didn't even bother with that. 

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32 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Pew found that its the older, and  less educated people who vote for Trump.  Pew also tells us that its the less educated who are more likely to be anti-vaxxers.   

Less educated in this context is supposed to mean those without a university degree. I contend that universities don't educate any more. They produce people with knowledge of a specific trade, and often prejudiced/biased knowledge at that. But they don't teach critical thinking, don't teach logic. Instead they indoctrinate in radical left theories and present them as fact.  There was a story I read this morning that the head librarian at the British Library said that racism was invented by white people. The only way you can get a position like hers is with a massive amount of education, and yet apparently she's so pig-ignorant of history she's let her views be shaped by ideology. We see this time and again from university graduates. That includes all those stupid little white college girls demanding the police be abolished. Seriously? It's like they have no clue that the only reason they can walk around on their own without being dragged into an alley is because of the law and order police enforce. Having a degree no longer means knowledgeable or sophisticated.

And older people are always more likely to vote for the more conservative party, just as men are. The Republican had spent years demonizing Clinton, to the point some people (and you can find them at this site, as well) thought of her something akin to Satan. That was especially rabid in conservative media.

Oh, and https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514266-biden-lead-over-trump-narrows-after-republican-national-convention-poll

Edited by Argus
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29 minutes ago, Argus said:

Less educated in this context is supposed to mean those without a university degree. I contend that universities don't educate any more. They produce people with knowledge of a specific trade, and often prejudiced/biased knowledge at that. But they don't teach critical thinking, don't teach logic. Instead they indoctrinate in radical left theories and present them as fact. 

If this were true, then they'd be as likely to believe misinformation because believing this stuff requires the lack of critical thinking as a first step.   I would expect (though I can't find any studies verifying) that educated conservatives would also be less likely to fall for fake news.   Because conservatives tend to be from smaller and rural areas, they are less likely to have pursued higher education and had that extra training in critical thinking.  

This article, from Scientific American (Pro-science in MBFC), suggests also that it's extremists of either ideology who are most likely to accept and spread fake news.   Perhaps low education is also correlated with lower levels of education, but right now I'm too lazy to look into that.

I don't know what you mean by 'radical left theories'.   You disbelieve that racism is systemic; others disagree.  If universities, as part of their program of study,  provide statistics about the treatment and incarceration of black people (for example) - would that qualify as "radical left theories" in your mind?

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24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Ok, thanks for that ... the polls I looked at were measuring his approval rating, so I didn't see what you were getting at.   

Actually say they the factors that matter are enthusiasm and who do you expect to win.

I hear Trump trumps on those. This below is also worth noting:

Quote

A study shows nearly 12 percent of Republicans say they would not give an honest opinion to a pollster.

The same is true of 10.5 percent of Independents but only 5.4 percent of Democrats.

According to this study, the “missing” or “shy” or “undercounted” Trump voter many suspect is downplaying the public’s true level of support for the president, is real.

In other words, Trump’s numbers, where he always seems to be trailing Rapey Joe Biden, do not reflect reality.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/28/nolte-study-shows-polls-are-missing-lots-of-shy-trump-voters/

Also, yeah, I heard the same thing Argus heard. Biden's lead has been narrowing since the convention. This is true in battleground states. Michigan was mentioned in particular in the article I read.

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Pew found that its the older, and  less educated people who vote for Trump.  Pew also tells us that its the less educated who are more likely to be anti-vaxxers.   

This article, from the Economist (rated least biased an Mediabiasfactcheck) provides a more in-depth analysis of who tends to believe in conspiracy theories

Non college educated these days are also less likely to be backing antifa and the other Communist instigators of riot like BLM from the look of things. A non-stem college degree these days is junk. One man's opinion.

BTW Mediabisfactcheck is also junk. Too biased. AllSides says The Economist leans left:

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/economist

Oh and everything the left pushes these days from the Russia to the Ukraine hoaxes to victim cultism, to homo or Islamo and other so called "phobias," to preachings of catastrophes like global warming is a conspiracy theory. They're just authorized by the Progressive elite is all.

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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2018/aug/19/the-whole-world-is-watching-chicago-police-riot-vietnam-war-regan

 

 

In 1969, President Nixon would hail a "silent majority" and urge them to support him, claiming patriotism for conservatives and condemning the "bitter hatred" of young Americans as he derided a minority who tried to impose their view on the nation "by mounting demonstrations in the street". Some of those fault lines, and that language, still echo 50 years later.

 

Sadly this time around impeachment failed.  

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7 hours ago, Argus said:

...Schools and universities have failed us. They have produced a legion of  people far dumber and less knowledgeable than their parents and grandparents, and the consequences for democracies are likely to be the end of democracies.

 

The premise is flawed...a better educated public does not automatically correlate with smarter/better election outcomes or choices.  Such is the very nature of politics and imagery over substance.    Like Trudeau, Trump won national election without a majority or plurality of votes cast, as the electoral process has been designed to dilute the power of "democracy" regardless of how well informed the electorate is.

Even when well informed and exercising critical thinking, voters can and will make choices based on several different and unrelated factors.

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20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The premise is flawed...a better educated public does not automatically correlate with smarter/better election outcomes or choices.  Such is the very nature of politics and imagery over substance.    Like Trudeau, Trump won national election without a majority or plurality of votes cast, as the electoral process has been designed to dilute the power of "democracy" regardless of how well informed the electorate is.

Even when well informed and exercising critical thinking, voters can and will make choices based on several different and unrelated factors.

People voting for Trump vote for a number of reasons, that's true. But his most devoted followers believe he is a brilliant businessman, which he demonstrably is not. They believe he cares about them, which his entire history of behavior suggests otherwise. They believe he will 'clean the swamp' when it's clear he's been a shady operator his whole life. They believe he's religion when he manifestly is not. Trump has done well by wall street when he said they would hate him, and done nothing for the blue collar people who voted for him out of something like desperation, given the disdain the coastal elites had shown them. I would suggest voting for someone out of mistaken beliefs in things which can easily be seen to be mistaken does not make you well-informed or sophisticated.

The 'educated' ones are the idiots who are helping him through all this identity politics crap, who have shown that disdain for the working class because they're not considered 'sophisticated' enough or 'woke' enough. Basically, Trump's whole campaign is based on telling blue collar workers, especially whites, that if they don't vote him back into place these 'educated' woke snots who hate them and think ANTIFA is just great will get into power and make their lives miserable. And yet these 'sophisticated' and 'educated' people seem utterly blind to that.

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40 minutes ago, Argus said:

... I would suggest voting for someone out of mistaken beliefs in things which can easily be seen to be mistaken does not make you well-informed or sophisticated.

 

Nor does it have to be....Trump was elected first and foremost as the anti-matter who would disrupt the status quo in Washington and on the global stage.   He was elected to break things, and not in a very sophisticated way.    Trump was/is just a symptom of the political paralysis and frustration that preceded him.

Trump is a bastard for sure...but he is their bastard....breaking all the rules loving every minute of it.

 

Quote

The 'educated' ones are the idiots who are helping him through all this identity politics crap, who have shown that disdain for the working class because they're not considered 'sophisticated' enough or 'woke' enough. Basically, Trump's whole campaign is based on telling blue collar workers, especially whites, that if they don't vote him back into place these 'educated' woke snots who hate them and think ANTIFA is just great will get into power and make their lives miserable. And yet these 'sophisticated' and 'educated' people seem utterly blind to that.

 

OK, but such a strategy is not new, having been used in 1968, 1972, and 1988 (e.g. Bush Sr.'s Willy Horton campaign ad).

Running and winning a U.S. presidential election is actually the opposite of reasoned, critical thought...for all candidates who have any hope of success.   In 1984, Democrat and former VP Walter Mondale calmly told the American public he was going to raise their taxes and cut some programs for America's fiscal health, and Ronald Reagan promptly destroyed him by winning 49 states, one of the worse presidential election ass kickings in U.S. history.

BLM, Antifa, the "squad" in Congress, sanctuary cities, "Dreamers", etc. provide Trump with more than enough ammunition to pour more gasoline on the election fire to see who gets burned.    Trumps critics overreach with their calls for defunding police, translating into more votes for Trump or not voting at all, because they only care about virtue signaling and "diversity" approval from like minded woke folk.

In America, "democracy" for a presidential election is a winner take all game show, where just winning matters more than anything else.

 

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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7 hours ago, dialamah said:

If this were true, then they'd be as likely to believe misinformation because believing this stuff requires the lack of critical thinking as a first step. 

They do believe misinformation, like stuff about 'systemic racism' and 'white fragility'

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

I would expect (though I can't find any studies verifying) that educated conservatives would also be less likely to fall for fake news.   Because conservatives tend to be from smaller and rural areas, they are less likely to have pursued higher education and had that extra training in critical thinking.  

Training in critical thinking is not a part of university educations. As we can freely see from all these brain-dead progressive white boys and girls running around screaming with their fists in the air calling for the police to be abolished.

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't know what you mean by 'radical left theories'.   You disbelieve that racism is systemic; others disagree.  If universities, as part of their program of study,  provide statistics about the treatment and incarceration of black people (for example) - would that qualify as "radical left theories" in your mind?

The way things work is they'll talk about how black people are 'overrepresented' in prisons but they won't talk about how much more crime they commit. They'll talk about black people getting shot more often but won't mention they're committing half the murders in America. They'll talk about black poverty but won't mention how often poverty is correlated with single parent families and that blacks have the highest level of single parent families in the US by far. They only give one side of the story, just like the media.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, dialamah said:

Ok, thanks for that ... the polls I looked at were measuring his approval rating, so I didn't see what you were getting at.   

Michael Moore, who predicted he would get elected last time, says he's starting to think he'll be re-elected. He says enthusiasm for Trump in battleground states is 'off the charts'. Bill Maher has said he's starting to worry, too.

The more riots, murders, looting and anarchy in the street there is the more people go for a 'law and order' candidate, even if he's a phony one. People are blaming the limp-wristed tactics of Democratic mayors, city councils, prosecutors and governors.

Edited by Argus
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you care about 'stupidity', you must start by acknowledging that no party or stance has a monopoly on it.

Trump is the stupidest president in history. His supporters are morons. The Democrats are stupid to be blowing this election, what should be the easiest election in the world to win, with identity politics All they had to do was come up with a reasonable, moderate candidate who wasn't as old as Methuselah. What did they have in their primaries? Local mayors, because they were black or gay, first term congressmen and senators, because they were women and minorities, and Elizabeth Warren. Great job, Dems. Not a single person of accomplishment who wasn't on the far Left except Joe Biden. And if that wasn't bad enough they decided to have a whole summer of arson, looting and rioting across America while every Democratic mayor, governor and prosecutor looked on and smiled approvingly. Because, like, the police sometimes shoot black criminals...

Edited by Argus
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Who the POTUS is, it's superficial.  Congress is corrupt, it's run by money, money from all over the world.  The greatest POTUS of all-time can't fix that.  Pretty similar all across the west.  Capitalism is destroying the West in front of our eyes, we've sold out our civilization.  I think it's too late to save it, it encompasses everything in our society.  Today's young people will be raising tomorrow's children.  Think about how scary that is.  Every generation since post-WWII has been getting worse and worse, and it will continue.

Dwelling on these things as Argus does will just make one angry.  Don't worry about things you can't change, just enjoy your life and focus on the positives.

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What we see today is the end game for liberals. People should reject them now as political chandala, with resounding conviction. They have become their own opposite, a sign that their political philosophy has collapsed in on itself. Need to get rid of them, asap and restore civil law and order.

 

These problems they have gotten people all worked up about, are not deserving of the destructive response on display! Clearly it is used an excuse for some to commit violence.

But more despicable is the politicization of it, as some do present it against conservatism.

I already indicated my plan.
Step one: Bring in the batons and billy clubs.
Step two: Lets talk meaningful reform, not bullshit displays on TV.
Step three: All liberals to be detained for questioning and fingerprinted.

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