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I believe that our governments dropped the ball with their response to covid 19. I believe their policies have resulted in more deaths, and have burdened our health care system while reducing it’s capacity to fight another virus if one should come. It has also hurt the most vulnerable in society.

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28 minutes ago, oops said:

I believe that our governments dropped the ball with their response to covid 19. I believe their policies have resulted in more deaths, and have burdened our health care system while reducing it’s capacity to fight another virus if one should come. It has also hurt the most vulnerable in society.

I believe it's the virus that did those things. 

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17 minutes ago, Boges said:

I believe it's the virus that did those things. 

https://www.britannica.com/science/virus

Virus, infectious agent of small size and simple composition that can multiply only in living cells of animalsplants, or bacteria. The name is from a Latin word meaning “slimy liquid” or “poison.”

 

It is not the virus that closed our hospitals while people were dying on waiting lists, it was not the virus that spent $300 billion  paying people to not contribute to our economy while adding to the debt that will rob health care of future funding. It was elected leaders who did that. There is some commonality between the two though, so I can see where you went wrong.

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3 minutes ago, oops said:

https://www.britannica.com/science/virus

Virus, infectious agent of small size and simple composition that can multiply only in living cells of animalsplants, or bacteria. The name is from a Latin word meaning “slimy liquid” or “poison.”

 

It is not the virus that closed our hospitals while people were dying on waiting lists, it was not the virus that spent $300 billion  paying people to not contribute to our economy while adding to the debt that will rob health care of future funding. It was elected leaders who did that. There is some commonality between the two though, so I can see where you went wrong.

Yes it was. 

People dying of a new infectious virus caused businesses to be closed by elected officials. 

Had they done nothing then more would have died. 

Canada's case and death rate is actually quite good. 

And their economic contraction isn't that much better or worse than other developed nations. 

Short of South Korea, Taiwan and the Oceanic Commonwealth nations, what other countries handled this pandemic well, by your metric? 

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1 hour ago, oops said:

I believe that our governments dropped the ball with their response to covid 19. I believe their policies have resulted in more deaths, and have burdened our health care system while reducing it’s capacity to fight another virus if one should come. It has also hurt the most vulnerable in society.

https://nationalpost.com/health/bio-warfare-experts-question-why-canada-was-sending-lethal-viruses-to-china

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41 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yes it was. 

People dying of a new infectious virus caused businesses to be closed by elected officials. 

Had they done nothing then more would have died. 

Canada's case and death rate is actually quite good. 

And their economic contraction isn't that much better or worse than other developed nations. 

Short of South Korea, Taiwan and the Oceanic Commonwealth nations, what other countries handled this pandemic well, by your metric? 

I don't care too much if other countries are doing poorly too. Flattening the curve doesn't  result in fewer deaths, it redistributes them.

 

image.thumb.png.99571b6bd6dfe807fa1a1fd2ef9f2ae4.png

 

The curve where no measures are taken in time will cross below the flattened curve, resulting in fewer infections. The result is the same number of infections, not less. The government also overestimated the effect of the virus.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/ive-heard-80-of-people-with-coronavirus-covid19-have-mild-symptoms-what-are-mild-symptoms.
 

A large majority of people have few to no symptoms. They have a positive test for the virus but no symptoms. Mild symptoms can range from sore throat, congestion and runny nose, nausea, vomiting,diarrhea, and headache to a low-grade fever and cough. If you have mild symptoms, you should stay home and recover. Just make sure to stay isolated so you don’t spread the infection to others. People with severe symptoms typically have a high fever, severe cough, and possibly shortness of breath and often need hospital treatment to recover. 

 

The recovery rate is also higher than you are led to believe.

 

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

 

Of the resolved cases of covid 19 344,000  have recovered, 13,000 have died. That would be a 96.2% recovery rate. However 75% of the deaths were in long term care facilities, or retirement homes.

 

https://hillnotes.ca/2020/10/30/long-term-care-homes-in-canada-the-impact-of-covid-19/


Of course thes residents were the least likely to be attending live music, or sporting events. They were not as likely to be doing their own shopping and were not affected as much by the lock downs. The recovery rate among people who were effectively would be higher than 96% perhaps in the 99% range.

 

The government could have spent $5 to $10 billion to bring long term care homes, and actually prevented deaths instead of causing many deaths in people on hospital waiting lists, opiod dependent people, and our elders who were isolated, essentially abandoned to die loneliness.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, oops said:

Of course thes residents were the least likely to be attending live music, or sporting events. They were not as likely to be doing their own shopping and were not affected as much by the lock downs. The recovery rate among people who were effectively would be higher than 96% perhaps in the 99% range.

The government could have spent $5 to $10 billion to bring long term care homes, and actually prevented deaths instead of causing many deaths in people on hospital waiting lists, opiod dependent people, and our elders who were isolated, essentially abandoned to die loneliness.

The fact that 80% of Canada's dead do come from people in LTC facilities actually proves that Canada's Healthcare system is pretty good. People aren't nearly a sick and risk of death from COVID-19 as they are in the US. 

But it's Chicken and Egg. If Canadians did refuse mask mandates and refused to limit gathering in businesses you may see a much higher caseload, hospitalization and death rate. 

Young people aren't as likely to die from COVID-19, but most young people have old people in their lives, whether they be co-workers or family members. 

If you're seeing someone in an at-risk group then you're putting them in danger. And a lot of people are doing just that. 

 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

The fact that 80% of Canada's dead do come from people in LTC facilities actually proves that Canada's Healthcare system is pretty good. People aren't nearly a sick and risk of death from COVID-19 as they are in the US. 

The fact that most of the deaths were in long term care, probably means that those making the rules did not understand the problem, and locked down the wrong people. Perhaps the fact that during the first couple of months of the crisis all the deaths were residents of long term care facilities, means that the people bringing the virus into the facilities did not die from it.

Perhaps  seeing people dying while waiting for cancer treatments is not a problem for you. Perhaps increased domestic abuse is not a problem for you. Perhaps increased opiod related deaths is not a problem for you. Perhaps the health and well being of our elderly and our children is not your concern. These issues were all the fault of the government, not the virus. Nancy Pelosi recently said “It’s always interesting to me to see how much patience some people have with the pain and suffering of other people,”  I find it selfish and wrong.

 

Perhaps if you have someone explain the graph to you, it will dawn on you that flattening the curve does not reduce the number of infections. Viral infections are not overwhelming hospitals, our leaders are.

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12 hours ago, oops said:

The fact that most of the deaths were in long term care, probably means that those making the rules did not understand the problem, and locked down the wrong people. Perhaps the fact that during the first couple of months of the crisis all the deaths were residents of long term care facilities, means that the people bringing the virus into the facilities did not die from it.

Perhaps  seeing people dying while waiting for cancer treatments is not a problem for you. Perhaps increased domestic abuse is not a problem for you. Perhaps increased opiod related deaths is not a problem for you. Perhaps the health and well being of our elderly and our children is not your concern. These issues were all the fault of the government, not the virus. Nancy Pelosi recently said “It’s always interesting to me to see how much patience some people have with the pain and suffering of other people,”  I find it selfish and wrong.

Perhaps if you have someone explain the graph to you, it will dawn on you that flattening the curve does not reduce the number of infections. Viral infections are not overwhelming hospitals, our leaders are.

Do you have stats for how many people died of cancer because their surgery was cancelled? Or are you just spouting hyperbole and anecdotes. 

The Virus is precisely the reason such surgeries would be cancelled. Hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. 

This is the problem. The more people ignore the infection nature of the virus, the more the healthcare system is taxed, and the more people will end up dying because they can't receive the healthcare they need. 

600 people are hospitalized in Ontario for COVID-19. That's 6 times what it was in the Summer.

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Do you have stats for how many people died of cancer because their surgery was cancelled? Or are you just spouting hyperbole and anecdotes. 

https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/ian-mulgrew-b-c-medicare-wait-lists-leave-hundreds-to-die-court-told
 

People are waiting too long for health care in B.C., hundreds even dying, but it’s not because doctors are providing private care, provincial anesthesiologists noted in their closing submission to the marathon medicare constitutional trial.
 

https://www.annalsthoracicsurgery.org/article/S0003-4975(03)02234-3/pdf

Insufficient capacity for coronary artery bypass grafting results in waiting times before operation, prioritization of patients and, ultimately, death on the waiting list.

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26 minutes ago, oops said:

https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/ian-mulgrew-b-c-medicare-wait-lists-leave-hundreds-to-die-court-told
 

People are waiting too long for health care in B.C., hundreds even dying, but it’s not because doctors are providing private care, provincial anesthesiologists noted in their closing submission to the marathon medicare constitutional trial.
 

https://www.annalsthoracicsurgery.org/article/S0003-4975(03)02234-3/pdf

Insufficient capacity for coronary artery bypass grafting results in waiting times before operation, prioritization of patients and, ultimately, death on the waiting list.

Alberta actually has worse Hospitalization figures than Ontario. 

Their situation is quite dire. 

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Our seniors took care of us when we were young. They loved and cared for us. supporting measures that are causing them pain heartache and death doesn't  look good on us.

People living in care homes are more afraid of dying of loneliness than of COVID-19, says a new report from the province’s watchdog for seniors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/20/covid-19-loneliness-isolation-can-kill-elderly-dementia-column/3711431001/

These findings tell us something important about the dangers of losing in-person connections for the majority of seniors who live in the community. Many avoid isolation by socializing in religious spaces, senior centers and third places” such as coffee shops, parks and libraries. Preventable deaths and suffering from isolation will rise if we don’t safeguard the public spaces that inoculate elders against the toll of loneliness.

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17 minutes ago, Boges said:

Alberta actually has worse Hospitalization figures than Ontario. 

Their situation is quite dire. 

https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx

https://www.google.com/search?q=number+of+hospitals+in+canada+by+province&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA911CA911&oq=number+of+hospitals+canada&aqs=chrome.1.69i59j0i22i30l6j69i60.18743j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


 

There are 161 hospitals on Alberta and 685 covid cases, on average 4.3 per hospital. Of these 121 are in intensive care, an average of close to one per hospital. If the hospitals are allowed to remain open they should be able to cope. In the mean time the government measures are seriously compromising our children's future. This is unacceptable.

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5 minutes ago, oops said:

https://www.alberta.ca/coronavirus-info-for-albertans.aspx

https://www.google.com/search?q=number+of+hospitals+in+canada+by+province&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA911CA911&oq=number+of+hospitals+canada&aqs=chrome.1.69i59j0i22i30l6j69i60.18743j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


 

There are 161 hospitals on Alberta and 685 covid cases, on average 4.3 per hospital. Of these 121 are in intensive care, an average of close to one per hospital. If the hospitals are allowed to remain open they should be able to cope. In the mean time the government measures are seriously compromising our children's future. This is unacceptable.

That logic is such bunk. 

Obviously COVID-19 is concentrating in populated areas. 

Airlifting people out to rural areas is a viable solution? 

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3 minutes ago, Boges said:

That logic is such bunk. 

Obviously COVID-19 is concentrating in populated areas. 

Airlifting people out to rural areas is a viable solution? 

Yes if that is necessary which is an argument you have not supported.  Hospital transports are better than watching our elderly die by prolonging their isolation.

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1 hour ago, oops said:

Yes if that is necessary which is an argument you have not supported.  Hospital transports are better than watching our elderly die by prolonging their isolation.

You don't think airlifting elderly COVID-19 patients to some far flung hospital wouldn't contribute to their isolation? 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

You don't think airlifting elderly COVID-19 patients to some far flung hospital wouldn't contribute to their isolation? 

You think that we should set government policy on some situation that you have manufactured in your own mind? You are okay with locking our children out f their schools, and telling them they are about to die though. It is time to reassure our children that their future holds promise and doing our level best to make that true. Caring for our elderly would be nice too.

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23 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yes, but who cares? The person who could have cared received 2000 a month for nothing more than existing. The others are shut down by the State, the State Media, the Police and their corporations they work at.

Not many care, as long as "I'm alright, Jack." But if it was their Mom or Dad, well...

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So apparently we have bought way more of the new dope than we will ever need. Other countries are complaining. Canada goes from one end of the response to the other, overdoing it. Is that right? Where'n the heck are they getting the money? From my balls, I know.  ;)

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On 12/9/2020 at 3:04 PM, oops said:

https://www.britannica.com/science/virus

Virus, infectious agent of small size and simple composition that can multiply only in living cells of animalsplants, or bacteria. The name is from a Latin word meaning “slimy liquid” or “poison.”

 

It is not the virus that closed our hospitals while people were dying on waiting lists, it was not the virus that spent $300 billion  paying people to not contribute to our economy while adding to the debt that will rob health care of future funding. It was elected leaders who did that. There is some commonality between the two though, so I can see where you went wrong.

Politician love to virtue-signal with someone else's money.

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21 hours ago, dialamah said:

Someone we know lost both her parents to Covid.  But I guess if it hasn't happened to you...

It is nice to know that you have empathy for someone. Why so little for the people who's deaths resulted from the lock downs?  Why don't you care about the people who died on hospital waiting list and who never received treatment,  the people who were opiod dependent and as a result of the border shut downs were forced to take toxic drugs resulting in their deaths? Is it because they are not someone that you know that you are not concerned with those people who are victimized by the increased domestic abuse the lock downs have resulted in?

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35 minutes ago, oops said:

It is nice to know that you have empathy for someone. Why so little for the people who's deaths resulted from the lock downs?  Why don't you care about the people who died on hospital waiting list and who never received treatment,  the people who were opiod dependent and as a result of the border shut downs were forced to take toxic drugs resulting in their deaths? Is it because they are not someone that you know that you are not concerned with those people who are victimized by the increased domestic abuse the lock downs have resulted in?

Sorry for that rant. I failed to check to see if your post was addressed to me, and it wasn't. Puts me in a rather bad light. Again I apologize for an inappropriate response.

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