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my take on covid 19 response


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On 2/28/2021 at 7:51 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

My take on covid is that we could have avoided or kept in check the virus if we had smart politicians and health professionals. They were always late in making the right decisions and / or made wrong decisions. They closed borders too damn late, they advised on wearing masks too late, they negotiated for vaccines late so we are still waiting for vaccines and only 3.5% of population vaccinated 3 months after vaccine discovery, most especially those politicians in Ontario will be causing many deaths in the future because they don't give up on their stupidity and still insists on two doses even though it is proven that one dose provides almost as much immunity as two doses and depriving millions of much needed protection against the deadly virus from which many will die. 

Your dear political leaders could give a shit about you or anyone else. They were not all that concerned in the beginning about this China virus because there was nothing to be concerned about. We were told in the beginning of this plandemic that tens of millions of people world wide were going to die. It never did happen. A scare tactic. The amount of people that have died today with this China virus is just about the same as the many people that die from other viruses and influenzas that pop around every year. People like you always make me laugh because you are so easily controlled and brainwashed by the deep state globalists and your dear political comrade leaders. 

Now they have people like you walking around looking foolish wearing a face diaper masks, telling you to social distance and quarantine. They pretty much in the beginning locked down all businesses except? Masks are for clowns. All those people wearing masks everywhere must want to be in the circus. Lol. 

 It's funny how big box stores and fast food corporate globalist owned restaurants and stores were all allowed to stay open but ma and pa businesses and restaurants were all shut down. Those globalist billionaires have made hundreds of millions of dollars in profits from this scamdemic. How much money did you make from this scamdemic? 

Stop acting like a fool and a lemming. Wake up, will you. It's all just a scam, man. Take those clown masks off and start to breathe wholesome 100% fresh air once again. Stop looking stupid and silly looking. Works for me. ;)

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Trudeau's last defense crumbles. The message has been that we couldn't make the vaccine here, and had to rely on other countries who had vaccine production facilities. Well, guess what? According

Well, that's because the authorities know that, while their God will protect anyone who attends the services, it won't give a toss about anyone they bump into at Safeway afterwards. 

https://nationalpost.com/health/bio-warfare-experts-question-why-canada-was-sending-lethal-viruses-to-china

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On 3/2/2021 at 6:29 PM, Argus said:

Sure. Just don't breathe anywhere around me.

You should wear two masks and a plastic cover and keep social distancing and maybe even stay at home and shut the hell up. If you are that frightened of this scary virus you should not be out there trying to catch this China virus. Why not just do the world a favor and quarantine yourself for safety sake's. It would be much appreciated. 

So, did you do all those things mentioned above when SARS and H1N1 and all the other scary diseases that came along in the past few years? No, you did not. Why? Because nobody made a big deal about them. The corporate deep state globalists were now ready to make a big deal out of this China virus and silly ass people like you fell for it and ate it all up. 

The globalists even got your dear political leaders in on the act also by pretty much allowing them in taking all of our freedoms that we once took for granted away from us. Now, thanks to you we are pretty much all prisoners in our own country. Flying somewhere has become a nightmare today. FUN has been pretty much abolished. Maybe you should seriously think as to whether breathing is still good for your health. Maybe stop for awhile. Just saying. :lol:

 

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On 3/21/2021 at 8:46 PM, OftenWrong said:

Sweden is achieving herd immunity without vaccines. They are ahead of all other European countries in controlling the outbreak, and ahead financially. Hospitalizations and deaths have virtually stopped.
 

BBC: Sweden’s Economy Is Doing Way Better Than the Rest of the EU During the COVID-19 Pandemic

 

My take on Covid-19: We are doing things bass-ackwards.

Turns out that the countries (and Canadian provinces) who locked down the hardest have had the fewest deaths and best economic performance, according to this study France did, covering 82 million people.  

"By almost every measure, nations that decided to eliminate the virus have achieved better results. “They are seeing significantly fewer deaths, their economies are performing more strongly, and their people are not held back to the same degree by mobility restrictions, whether voluntary or mandatory. Nor have they had to cancel other medical treatment.”

In contrast, nations that pursued mitigation programs are now battling variants that are more lethal and contagious with a variety of “circuit breakers” and “emergency brakes."

"As Canada’s experience illustrates, the implications of the two policies for ordinary people have been profound, said the report.

It found that half of Canada, which adopted a rigorous elimination approach, has fared much better than Canada’s most populous provinces — generally led by premiers who have emphasized impacts on the economy over the other considerations.

In provinces and territories that worked at eliminating the virus, traffic in restaurants and bars and cafés, for example, declined by only 21 per cent this year as the variants emerged.

In contrast, traffic declined by 42 per cent in the mitigation provinces, according to Google data.

“Canada thus benefits from a pilot test area that shows the superiority of the Zero COVID strategy and its feasibility in a democratic continental country,” notes the report. 

The lingering cost of ‘half-measures’

The Canadian data “suggest that the French strategy, consisting of sustained efforts to mitigate the virus without eradicating it, stems from a miscalculation, insofar as it does not provide for a return to a near-normal situation.”

The high economic and mental cost of one effective lockdown as opposed to half measures “is not lasting when they help eradicate the virus and remove the restrictions on people and economies on a sustainable basis,” added the report.

“Meanwhile, the beneficial nature of curfews and other half-measures fades away when we see that they extend over time, multiplying the economic and social costs, as is the case today in France.”

Edited by dialamah
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46 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Turns out that the countries (and Canadian provinces) who locked down the hardest have had the fewest deaths and best economic performance, according to this study France did, covering 82 million people.  

"By almost every measure, nations that decided to eliminate the virus have achieved better results. “They are seeing significantly fewer deaths, their economies are performing more strongly, and their people are not held back to the same degree by mobility restrictions, whether voluntary or mandatory. Nor have they had to cancel other medical treatment.”

In contrast, nations that pursued mitigation programs are now battling variants that are more lethal and contagious with a variety of “circuit breakers” and “emergency brakes."

"As Canada’s experience illustrates, the implications of the two policies for ordinary people have been profound, said the report.

It found that half of Canada, which adopted a rigorous elimination approach, has fared much better than Canada’s most populous provinces — generally led by premiers who have emphasized impacts on the economy over the other considerations.

In provinces and territories that worked at eliminating the virus, traffic in restaurants and bars and cafés, for example, declined by only 21 per cent this year as the variants emerged.

In contrast, traffic declined by 42 per cent in the mitigation provinces, according to Google data.

“Canada thus benefits from a pilot test area that shows the superiority of the Zero COVID strategy and its feasibility in a democratic continental country,” notes the report. 

The lingering cost of ‘half-measures’

The Canadian data “suggest that the French strategy, consisting of sustained efforts to mitigate the virus without eradicating it, stems from a miscalculation, insofar as it does not provide for a return to a near-normal situation.”

The high economic and mental cost of one effective lockdown as opposed to half measures “is not lasting when they help eradicate the virus and remove the restrictions on people and economies on a sustainable basis,” added the report.

“Meanwhile, the beneficial nature of curfews and other half-measures fades away when we see that they extend over time, multiplying the economic and social costs, as is the case today in France.”

Interesting information but seems like pro-liberal propaganda, in that it conflicts with the local story. Ontario just had to put on the emergency brake again, for example. This after people in the province have endured the longest code grey in the free world. Rates are still climbing despite all the effort.

Its like I told you all along. Masks dont work well unless properly used. That means the correct quality and fit. Otherwise they promote a false  sense of security and that sets people up for the getting the virus. Some article written in another country cannot replace actual data and real-world experience.

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Note how in over a year of a clearly extraordinary situation, nothing new has been invented or implemented in the country. Scare and mumble, mumble and scare and hope for better outcome, and at that claim that "things are pretty good" (one of the expert professors on Canada's vaccine rollout) and could have been a lot worse if not for their wise leadership. What if after years of complacency and self-gratitude we lost the ability to look out, learn and adapt?

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4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Ontario just had to put on the emergency brake again, for example. This after people in the province have endured the longest code grey in the free world. Rates are still climbing despite all the effort.

Ontario is one of the provinces specifically mentioned as having not had an effective lockdown, along with BC, and other provinces.  The Atlantic provinces and territories are the Canadian examples demonstrating that hard lockdowns have been most successful.

 

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

. Masks dont work well unless properly used. That means the correct quality and fit.

The article wasn't about masks.

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Some article written in another country cannot replace actual data and real-world experience.

The study examined real world data of countries around the world, including Europe, Asia, North and South America.

Maybe you should have read the link before responding.

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3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Ontario is one of the provinces specifically mentioned as having not had an effective lockdown, along with BC, and other provinces.  The Atlantic provinces and territories are the Canadian examples demonstrating that hard lockdowns have been most successful.

 

The article wasn't about masks.

The study examined real world data of countries around the world, including Europe, Asia, North and South America.

Maybe you should have read the link before responding.

Yes those hard lockdowns in Europe worked wonders. 😂

Lockdowns are unsustainable.  People get more fatigued as time goes on, and comply less.

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23 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes those hard lockdowns in Europe worked wonders. 😂

Lockdowns are unsustainable.  People get more fatigued as time goes on, and comply less.

According to the study, most of Europe's lockdowns were not hard enough.  The countries that really did shut down hard have had fewer deaths, and have performed better economically than the half-assed shutdowns most of Europe and most of Canada employed.

You too should have read the article before commenting.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

According to the study, most of Europe's lockdowns were not hard enough.  The countries that really did shut down hard have had fewer deaths, and have performed better economically than the half-assed shutdowns most of Europe and most of Canada employed.

You too should have read the article before commenting.

It follows that if we all crawl into a concrete cell and seal ourselves, no virus can spread. That's the dilemma you see, finding the right balance. This info you posted ignores all other societal consequences, which I warned about and by now are proven to be real.

Shutdowns in Ontario have been hard on the wrong people and places. Especially the one we are in now which really amounts to more liberty in Toronto, and unfairly hurts literally thousands of people in so many small towns, places where they have kept the virus at bay up until now. It amounts to paying lip-service to the shutdown meme, without understanding.

But hey, it will fill in the boxes on your spreadsheet quite nicely. So,

;)

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

The Atlantic provinces and territories are the Canadian examples demonstrating that hard lockdowns have been most successful.

Those are remote areas. Generally low in population. There are only a few areas that resemble the modern urban culture and lifestyle of big cities. That probably has something to do with it. International travel, cosmopolitanism. Very few progressives back east, just good quiet folk who mind their own business. They don't like strangers. My kinda town...

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53 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

This info you posted ignores all other societal consequences, which I warned about and by now are proven to be real.

Per the study:

Quote

The high economic and mental cost of one effective lockdown as opposed to half measures “is not lasting when they help eradicate the virus and remove the restrictions on people and economies on a sustainable basis,” added the report.

“Meanwhile, the beneficial nature of curfews and other half-measures fades away when we see that they extend over time, multiplying the economic and social costs, as is the case today in France.”

In other words, the half-measures that are initially easier on people's mental health and well-being become harder over the long term, while the relatively quick resolution of virus elimination, and avoiding second and third waves, results in better social outcomes - better economic outcomes and better mental health and well-being outcomes.

So, again, OW, you should have read what the link said.

Of course, the real answer will be revealed a year or two or ten from now - perhaps some other study will contradict the the findings in this study.   

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42 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Per the study:

In other words, the half-measures that are initially easier on people's mental health and well-being become harder over the long term, while the relatively quick resolution of virus elimination, and avoiding second and third waves, results in better social outcomes - better economic outcomes and better mental health and well-being outcomes.

So, again, OW, you should have read what the link said.

Of course, the real answer will be revealed a year or two or ten from now - perhaps some other study will contradict the the findings in this study.   

 

That's what I already said, put em all in a jail cell and it would work Too bad there's a little old thing called liberty, as well as human decency.

What is actually happening is that this is covering up the sad truth that other countries are starting to see the benefit of their vaccine programs and their rates are going down, while in Canada we are still going up. Wrong way, Canada.

So while we argue about masks and social distance vs physical distancing, in the UK they are going to the zoo and bowling.

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Of course, that folk completely ignores one trifle thingy: the result. See, there are lockdowns and lockdowns. There certainly were lockdowns in Australia and New Zealand (one has Covid toll of less than 1/20 of this country, with comparable population; the other, around 20 and not thousand). There were lockdowns in Tainwan (9 last time) and Japan (less than 1/2, huge population density, four times the population) and so on.

But no. We want to profess the lockdowns, each time the cases edge up we look not at what WE need to do to improve OUR results in the management of epidemics that would involve US working smartly, intelligently and effectively, inventing NEW and WORKING methods and policies but no that's not what we do because, let me guess, we long forgot how it's done or never done that. Instead we jump, squeak and scream, wave our hands and call for new and stronger lockdowns. Why do we do that? Because a) it's done very easily and by pretty much anybody and b) maybe we cannot do much/anything else?

There are lockdowns and lockdowns. Lockdowns that work and keep population safe is one thing. Lockdowns that only cover bureaucratic ....es in the absence of any meaningful strategy is something completely different. And that difference can be observed immediately, yes you got it, in the numbers, results. And only very naive could mix up the two.

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18 hours ago, Aristides said:

ESPN reports many Canuck players suffering extreme fatigue, dehydration and other symptoms. Some can't even get out of bed.

These are hyper fit young people.

 

 

Sure they are.

 

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34 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Sure they are.

 

This was reported by one of the player’s agents. Why would he lie or is he part of the great reset or some other dumb ass conspiracy theory. ICU physicians at Lion’s Gate and Royal Columbian hospitals are ringing alarm bells saying they are seeing many more younger people in dire straights with this variant around ten days after they start showing symptoms. On 100% O2 bordering on intubation.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-variants-vaccine-royal-columbian-variants-bc-health-1.5975995

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10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

That's what I already said, put em all in a jail cell and it would work Too bad there's a little old thing called liberty, as well as human decency.

What is actually happening is that this is covering up the sad truth that other countries are starting to see the benefit of their vaccine programs and their rates are going down, while in Canada we are still going up. Wrong way, Canada.

So while we argue about masks and social distance vs physical distancing, in the UK they are going to the zoo and bowling.

The UK was locked down a lot harder than us while they were vaccinating.

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17 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The UK was locked down a lot harder than us while they were vaccinating.

So what. The data does not show anything of value came out of those lockdowns, and their numbers were terrible. It only took a turn for the better recently. That's vaccines.

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24 minutes ago, Aristides said:

This was reported by one of the player’s agents. Why would he lie or is he part of the great reset or some other dumb ass conspiracy theory. ICU physicians at Lion’s Gate and Royal Columbian hospitals are ringing alarm bells saying they are seeing many more younger people in dire straights with this variant around ten days after they start showing symptoms. On 100% O2 bordering on intubation.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-variants-vaccine-royal-columbian-variants-bc-health-1.5975995

"reported"

"exaggerated"

"He can't get out of bed"

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22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Pathetic.

Nonsense. No one is taking away your freedom to cover yourself with body armour from head to toe, if you feel it's warranted. Expect me to not follow your lead on that, however.

As one famous senator said recently, "You're welcome to step away."

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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Nonsense. No one is taking away your freedom to cover yourself with body armour from head to toe, if you feel it's warranted. Expect me to not follow your lead on that, however.

As one famous senator said recently, "You're welcome to step away."

Then stay away from people, you are the threat, not them.

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And this too is the unfortunate, easily predictable effect of constant and incessant scare-mongering that some professionals have been exercising since first days of the pandemic IN PLACE of intelligent and effective response. It's called the cry wolf effect. If all what one has done for a year (and counting) is jumping up and down and calling for ever stricter lockdowns, at some point people would just ignore it as noisy background. Does one need to be a top-chair expert to understand that?

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