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Do you believe in a divine Creator of the universe and everything in it, including mankind?


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The evidence is all around us that the complex, intricate universe required a divine Creator to design and create it, as recorded in Genesis of the Bible.  Yet we are told by much of the secular world that the theory of evolution and the big bang theory are facts.  This is fed to our youth in the public school system and is taken as unquestionable fact.  When we look at the complexity of the universe, consider the atomic particles, and the laws of physics that govern their motion and actions, it is clear that it required an infinitely powerful Creator to design and create it.  We are told it is all a cosmic accident that just happened out of the blue.   Somehow it seems that people like Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist who wrote the God Delusion, missed some very basic evidence for a Creator.  Simple physics like gravity, the very existence of electrons, neutrons, protons, and their iron-clad laws that control them cannot be explained apart from an infinitely powerful Designer/Creator of the universe.  We are told that mankind somehow evolved out of the slime in a pond.  Yet man and all the creatures contain infinitely complex chromosomes that determine characteristics of the living creature.  We are told this was all an accident or evolved somehow.  It takes far more blind acceptance of an irrational theory that has no evidence, and no basis to believe it.  Supposedly it all just happened by some kind of cosmic accident.   In order to accept the theory of evolution and the big bang theory (which incidentally still does not explain where it all came from or how it started), one has to set their reasoning aside.  As for the Big Bang theory, an explosion always creates disorder, not order.  The universe is orderly.  One would have to accept that such things as love of humans for their family, children, pets, etc. is all just a chemical reaction.  Another thing to consider is all the good and evil in the world.  If there is no God, then there is no meaning in life and there is no justice for all the evil.  The existence of the world has to point to an ultimate accounting or justice.  Otherwise it is a free-for-all of everyone just taking whatever they can get for themselves out of the world and no consequences for evil.  This is not rational.  There just has to be a Creator God who is infinitely powerful who will hold everyone accountable.  This is the only rational way that anything makes sense.  It is completely irrational to believe in the atheist idea.

 

Edited by blackbird
correct a name & spelling error
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  • blackbird changed the title to Do you believe in a divine Creator of the universe and everything in it, including mankind?
7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I have no idea how the matter and energy that makes up the universe came to be and make zero claims on knowing that which is unknowable.  Therefore to answer your question:  I don't know, based on lack of evidence.

What you say is very commonly believed by many people.  The answer to that according to the Bible is:

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.

that which.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Psalm 19:1-6
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork…

Isaiah 40:26
Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

in them.

John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)

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First off, when you say things like "the slime in a pond" or that the Big Bang was an "explosion", you're just showing you ignorance of the scientific method, and to what science actually advocats (even putting aside the fact you confused Steven Hawkins with Richard Dawkins) 

When it comes to morals, secular humanity is by far a better system, the "God" of the bible is an immoral thug that condones slavery, rape and genocide.

Finally the bible, why would an ancient book conceived by ignorant bronze age farmers, that contains numerous historical and scientific errors be a reliable reference?

 

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14 hours ago, blackbird said:

What you say is very commonly believed by many people.  The answer to that according to the Bible is:

Thank you, but with for me I don't give any authority to the Bible other than it being a philosophical text.  These questions are unknowable.

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27 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Thank you, but with for me I don't give any authority to the Bible other than it being a philosophical text.  These questions are unknowable.

I don't agree.  The Bible proves it came from God, but what you do with it is up to you.  The fact that Jesus was raised from the dead and seen by many eyewitnesses proves what he said in the Bible came from God and proves he is in fact God.  The Bible is God's ordained way of communicating to man how to be saved, go to heaven and have eternal life.   As the Bible says, God has not chosen, in a general sense, the rich, the powerful, the successful, or famous, but has chosen the foolish things of this world.  That is the way God does things sometimes.  By the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.  The rest will be lost for eternity. There is no salvation apart from the gospel given in the Bible.  Many say that they don't believe the Bible was inspired by God but likely none of them have even studied the Bible and don't really know what they are saying.   Jesus said "many are called but few are chosen".  This is why I think most people won't be going to heaven.  I will say a short prayer for you.

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16 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

First off, when you say things like "the slime in a pond" or that the Big Bang was an "explosion", you're just showing you ignorance of the scientific method, and to what science actually advocats (even putting aside the fact you confused Steven Hawkins with Richard Dawkins) 

When it comes to morals, secular humanity is by far a better system, the "God" of the bible is an immoral thug that condones slavery, rape and genocide.

Finally the bible, why would an ancient book conceived by ignorant bronze age farmers, that contains numerous historical and scientific errors be a reliable reference?

 

You reveal your ignorance of the Bible and what it teaches with your false statements.  Sad but true. God does not condone slavery, rape and genocide.  In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite of what you claim.  It teaches man is to love they neighbour as thyself. You simply have not studied the Bible at all.  Pardon me you are correct about Richard Dawkins.  It is Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist.  My memory is slipping.  You can watch the debate on youtube between Dawkins and Lennox.

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8 hours ago, blackbird said:

You reveal your ignorance of the Bible and what it teaches with your false statements.  Sad but true. God does not condone slavery, rape and genocide.  In fact, the Bible teaches the exact opposite of what you claim.  It teaches man is to love they neighbour as thyself. You simply have not studied the Bible at all.  Pardon me you are correct about Richard Dawkins.  It is Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist.  My memory is slipping.  You can watch the debate on youtube between Dawkins and Lennox.

With all due respect, your knowledge of the bible seems comparable to your understanding of science, wanting. 

So lets get specific. We could do this same exercise for many of the immoral actions of God in the bible, but lets stick with slavery. 

Please explain the love thy neighbor part of verses like Exodus 21 or Leviticus 25 and why a moral god wouldn't simply write thou shall not own people as property?

Again, the real question is why do we care what the bible says at all?

I have read multiple versions of the bible (en deux langues, I was raised by a french Catholic mother and a fundamental baptist father) and am more versed in the text than most professed Christians. The fact that there are as many interpretations as there are people that have read it, to me prove there is no truth in this work of fiction

 

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3 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

With all due respect, your knowledge of the bible seems comparable to your understanding of science, wanting. 

So lets get specific. We could do this same exercise for many of the immoral actions of God in the bible, but lets stick with slavery. 

Please explain the love thy neighbor part of verses like Exodus 21 or Leviticus 25 and why a moral god wouldn't simply write thou shall not own people as property?

Again, the real question is why do we care what the bible says at all?

I have read multiple versions of the bible (en deux langues, I was raised by a french Catholic mother and a fundamental baptist father) and am more versed in the text than most professed Christians. The fact that there are as many interpretations as there are people that have read it, to me prove there is no truth in this work of fiction

 

Your fundamental premise that you, which are a mere speck of dust in the universe, should think you can judge God is ludicrous.  You approach the Bible and God with the attitude that demons or the evil one might have.  Totally wrong.  If you have even a slight indication of understanding of who God is you might have a hair of credibility.  So you have taken nothing out of the Bible to give you any understanding.  There are countless websites that explain the meaning of verses and parts of the Bible.  So you have not looked at anything to answer your questions.  Why there is slavery and always has been is a subject you could investigate and find out what the actual teachings are, including the New Testament period.  As for Christians in the apostolic age, the New Testament teaches slaves were to be treated with respect and kindness.  Mankind has not all been born in the same status in life.  Perhaps that has to do with the Fall of Man.  After Adam and Eve rebelled against God, mankind inherited a fallen, sinful nature and world became a corrupt evil place.  There are many examples of inequality.  Some are born rich, some are born with nothing.  Some are born with serious physical defects.  Some die at birth. Some live to be over a hundred. That is the way the world is.  Google the fall of man and the Bible.  The fallen state of the world and man is likely the reason why there is slavery.   We still have it today in for example sex slavery.  A corrupt world.

If you have been raised somewhat in Catholicism or in a mixture of confusion, I can understand why you might have a problem.  You say your folks were Catholic and fundamental Baptist, which are polar opposites.  That might have caused some problems for you because there would be no agreement on theological matters.   My background has some similarity.   I was raised Catholic and did attend the Catholic church until I was about 30.  But by God's grace I heard the gospel over the radio when I was about 35 years old and God converted me to his Son, Jesus Christ.  I never went back to the Catholic church.  I got baptized in an evangelical church.  Afterward,  I studied about Catholicism in books and compared the Bible teachings and found it is a totally false man-made religion.  Jesus is the only Savior and is my Savior and Lord.  The Catholic church or being a Catholic cannot save you from hell.  I know the Catholic church does not give much credence to the Bible and places it's church majesterium, church fathers, and teachings of the church as the final authority.  However that position is contrary to the Bible itself.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/18/2021 at 11:56 AM, blackbird said:

Your fundamental premise that you, which are a mere speck of dust in the universe, should think you can judge God is ludicrous.  You approach the Bible and God with the attitude that demons or the evil one might have.  Totally wrong.  If you have even a slight indication of understanding of who God is you might have a hair of credibility.  So you have taken nothing out of the Bible to give you any understanding.  There are countless websites that explain the meaning of verses and parts of the Bible.  So you have not looked at anything to answer your questions.  Why there is slavery and always has been is a subject you could investigate and find out what the actual teachings are, including the New Testament period.  As for Christians in the apostolic age, the New Testament teaches slaves were to be treated with respect and kindness.  Mankind has not all been born in the same status in life.  Perhaps that has to do with the Fall of Man.  After Adam and Eve rebelled against God, mankind inherited a fallen, sinful nature and world became a corrupt evil place.  There are many examples of inequality.  Some are born rich, some are born with nothing.  Some are born with serious physical defects.  Some die at birth. Some live to be over a hundred. That is the way the world is.  Google the fall of man and the Bible.  The fallen state of the world and man is likely the reason why there is slavery.   We still have it today in for example sex slavery.  A corrupt world.

If you have been raised somewhat in Catholicism or in a mixture of confusion, I can understand why you might have a problem.  You say your folks were Catholic and fundamental Baptist, which are polar opposites.  That might have caused some problems for you because there would be no agreement on theological matters.   My background has some similarity.   I was raised Catholic and did attend the Catholic church until I was about 30.  But by God's grace I heard the gospel over the radio when I was about 35 years old and God converted me to his Son, Jesus Christ.  I never went back to the Catholic church.  I got baptized in an evangelical church.  Afterward,  I studied about Catholicism in books and compared the Bible teachings and found it is a totally false man-made religion.  Jesus is the only Savior and is my Savior and Lord.  The Catholic church or being a Catholic cannot save you from hell.  I know the Catholic church does not give much credence to the Bible and places it's church majesterium, church fathers, and teachings of the church as the final authority.  However that position is contrary to the Bible itself.

 

When you imply I'm somehow demonic or evil, the conversation is over.

I'll leave you with some food for thought, you should really at least attempt to understand others perspectives and not simply those who agree with you. Ken ham, eric hovind, ray comfort, etc... are con artists. Try reading anything by Dr. Bart Ehrman, or maybe "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawking, or "the god delusion" by Richard Dawkins. At least then you won't sound so silly when you talk about people you've clearly never studied.

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1 hour ago, SkyHigh said:

When you imply I'm somehow demonic or evil, the conversation is over.

I'll leave you with some food for thought, you should really at least attempt to understand others perspectives and not simply those who agree with you. Ken ham, eric hovind, ray comfort, etc... are con artists. Try reading anything by Dr. Bart Ehrman, or maybe "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawking, or "the god delusion" by Richard Dawkins. At least then you won't sound so silly when you talk about people you've clearly never studied.

I have explained my point of view in great length.  It is you who responded with two or three sentences and claim I have not understood other perspectives.  I can only go by what you say.   I have watched an hour or more of actual debate between Stephen Hawking re his God Delusion book and a Christian apologetics professor when they discussed the subject in fairly great depth.  If you want you can watch their debate on youtube.

  I don't agree with all TV evangelists or preachers.  You seem to be assuming I agree with everything certain people like Ken Ham and Eric Hovind and Ray Comfort preach.  In fact, I don't even recall listening to anything they have said.  The mistake you make is assuming every TV evangelist is speaking the absolute truth and is speaking for what I believe.  You couldn't be more wrong.  Of course there are scammers on religious TV programs just as there are scammers in politics and every other field of life.  You won't be able to learn anything if you do not open your mind and accept the fact you may not have all the answers.  I don't have all the answers, but I have read and studied things for decades and came to several reasonable conclusions long ago.  One basic principle the Bible teaches and it is easily observed is all people are sinners.  Romans 3:23 makes this clear.  So it is reasonable to assume everyone is under some degree of demonic influence or degree of evil.   There is nobody who is perfect whoever walked on earth except God's Son Jesus. The Bible makes it clear, the world is a lost and fallen place because of the Fall of Man through Adam and Eve.  I am always open to helping anyone see the truth or pointing them in the right direction if they are open-minded enough.  But that is the key.

 

If you have another perspective, I am open to reading it.  But what is it based upon.  A belief system must have some basis or it could be imaginary or false.

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23 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

When you imply I'm somehow demonic or evil, the conversation is over.

I'll leave you with some food for thought, you should really at least attempt to understand others perspectives and not simply those who agree with you. Ken ham, eric hovind, ray comfort, etc... are con artists. Try reading anything by Dr. Bart Ehrman, or maybe "a brief history of time" by Stephen Hawking, or "the god delusion" by Richard Dawkins. At least then you won't sound so silly when you talk about people you've clearly never studied.

Let's be honest; you were the one who said "So lets get specific. We could do this same exercise for many of the immoral actions of God in the bible, but lets stick with slavery. "  Stating the the actions of God are immoral is about as demonic and evil a comment as one could make.  More likely it demonstrates you have no idea of who God is or what you are talking about.

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15 hours ago, blackbird said:

Let's be honest; you were the one who said "So lets get specific. We could do this same exercise for many of the immoral actions of God in the bible, but lets stick with slavery. "  Stating the the actions of God are immoral is about as demonic and evil a comment as one could make.  More likely it demonstrates you have no idea of who God is or what you are talking about.

Geezs, you are so dishonest. I gave specific passages to support my claim, you tried to ignore them, by evoking the new testament by quoting jesus(golden rule), but you're so ignorant to your own holy book you don't even know that jesus was quoting Leviticus. Not to mention you still confuse Hawking and Dawkins(listening to an hour of a debate is a far cry from understanding their perspective) two men very different not only in there field of study, but also in their public personas and when yoy say things like the big bang was an explosion you just prove you know nothing about science.

When you claim to already know the truth, you are by definition not open minded, and when you judge others to be evil, well lets just say that if your god exist we'll see each other in hell, but until then I will not engage any further with some as willfully ignorant as you

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35 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Geezs, you are so dishonest. I gave specific passages to support my claim, you tried to ignore them, by evoking the new testament by quoting jesus(golden rule), but you're so ignorant to your own holy book you don't even know that jesus was quoting Leviticus. Not to mention you still confuse Hawking and Dawkins(listening to an hour of a debate is a far cry from understanding their perspective) two men very different not only in there field of study, but also in their public personas and when yoy say things like the big bang was an explosion you just prove you know nothing about science.

When you claim to already know the truth, you are by definition not open minded, and when you judge others to be evil, well lets just say that if your god exist we'll see each other in hell, but until then I will not engage any further with some as willfully ignorant as you

Jesus said "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."  John 8:32 KJB

When I say I already know the truth, I am referring to the basic truth according to the Bible, and because of that, Jesus said I am free. 

"28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."   Hebrews 9:28 KJB

 I am not judged and going to hell, but I am on the way to heaven.  Jesus promised this.  So your claim  is contrary to what Jesus said and is false. 

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40 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

   ...  when you say things like the big bang was an explosion you just prove you know nothing about science.

You would be surprised what I know about science.  I know a number of things like the big bang and evolution are purely speculation and unproven.  Science does not claim to have all the answers and never did make such a claim.  When it comes to the origin of the universe, there is absolutely no evidence or proof that God did not create it ten or fifteen thousand years ago, with an apparent age built it.  Many of the greatest scientists in history believed in God.  They could see the evidence of God's creation all around them and just accepted it.

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