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19 hours ago, myata said:

How the "hotspots" were identified to jump ahead of the vaccination line? Were there clear and consistent (and reasonable) criteria or yet another political game?

Some "hotspots" with priority vaccination have lower than average Covid impact?

Do we really any more muddling and controversy in this long and not exactly brilliant affair?

It would definitely be Shameful if Dofo decided not to give priority to areas because they're politically useless to him. Ultimately stemming the spread is politically useful to him everywhere. 

The saturation in hot spots is effecting the lives of everyone in Ontario. 

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51 minutes ago, Boges said:

It would definitely be Shameful if Dofo decided not to give priority to areas because they're politically useless to him. Ultimately stemming the spread is politically useful to him everywhere.

There is no mechanism to ensure transparency, fairness and eventually, trust of the public. The public cannot have confidence that political expediency has no place in these critical decisions. This is shameful and beginning to have resemblance to how decisions are made in the third-world countries.

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27 minutes ago, myata said:

There is no mechanism to ensure transparency, fairness and eventually, trust of the public. The public cannot have confidence that political expediency has no place in these critical decisions. This is shameful and beginning to have resemblance to how decisions are made in the third-world countries.

But the numbers are made public. Which is how the CBC was able to discover that certain areas were being considered Hotspots that shouldn't and vice versa. 

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25 minutes ago, myata said:

beginning to have resemblance to how decisions are made in the third-world countries.

This assumes the information we're being provided is wrong or incomplete.  What if we are being given all the relevant information?  What if we are actually miles ahead of third world authoritarian countries in our transparency and disclosure?  

I work in a provincial gov position, and the standard of transparency and disclosure here sometimes surprises me.  Things that I would have assumed would be private are not.  In addition, if someone isn't satisfied, there are FOI requests which provides copies of documents and emails.  Personally identifying information can be redacted, and not much else.  We are constantly reminded that the public is entitled to transparency around our policies, procedures and decisions, and every year must repeat training around this.

Gov is not perfect, being made of humans with flaws.  Holding gov feet to the fire is a good practice, absolutely.  But at the same time, automatically rejecting gov statements and declaring us no better than third world countries is not helpful and comes across as hyperbolic and paranoid.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Boges said:

But the numbers are made public. Which is how the CBC was able to discover that certain areas were being considered Hotspots that shouldn't and vice versa. 

And the decision does not match the numbers. And nobody had any say in it, nor can demand an explanation of how it was made by anonymous, overpaid bureaucrats. This is the third world. It has arrived.

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13 minutes ago, Boges said:

But the numbers are made public. Which is how the CBC was able to discover that certain areas were being considered Hotspots that shouldn't and vice versa. 

. 😆. But HOW ? 
 

 

1 minute ago, myata said:

And the decision does not match the numbers. And nobody had any say in it, nor can demand an explanation of how it was made by anonymous, overpaid bureaucrats. This is the third world. It has arrived.

Well... yes... people are demanding an explanation.  And the government is being embarrassed as it should very well be.

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51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And the government is being embarrassed as it should very well be.

That may not be sufficient for the level of challenges and actions required to deal with them in this century. The past is not a guarantee of anything if one lost the ability to learn and adapt. Personally, "embarrassment" of some overpaid bureaucrat concerns me infinitely less than their patent inability to produce even satisfactory results.

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21 minutes ago, myata said:

That may not be sufficient for the level of challenges and actions required to deal with them in this century. The past is not a guarantee of anything if one lost the ability to learn and adapt. Personally, "embarrassment" of some overpaid bureaucrat concerns me infinitely less than their patent inability to produce even satisfactory results.

So that's kind of the basis of liberal democracy... open criticism and accountability.  So what else do you suggest ?

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11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So that's kind of the basis of liberal democracy... open criticism and accountability.  So what else do you suggest ?

You found a trace of accountability there, or in "travel from Wuhan" (or in Phoenix fiasco etc and over)? Interesting. I'd like to take a look at your quantum microscope.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

You found a trace of accountability there, or in "travel from Wuhan" (or in Phoenix fiasco etc and over)? Interesting. I'd like to take a look at your quantum microscope.

Sorry - are you saying there's no accountability or no mechanism for accountability ?

It matters because the former says that the politicians are garbage and the latter says the whole system needs to be redesigned.

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34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It matters because the former says that the politicians are garbage and the latter says the whole system needs to be redesigned.

There's no objective evidence of accountability - and it's up to us as citizens (if and when) to understand and interpret what it means. Including for us, and our country going forward into this century.

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20 hours ago, myata said:

There's no objective evidence of accountability - and it's up to us as citizens (if and when) to understand and interpret what it means. Including for us, and our country going forward into this century.

The vaccination numbers are public knowledge. 100,000 vaccinations a day. 

Everyone 60+ can book an appointment across the province. 50+ in Hot spots and there are opportunities for people 18+ who are especially at risk to be vaccinated early. 

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The vaccine number are available here. 

https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covid-19-vaccine-data-in-ontario/resource/8a89caa9-511c-4568-af89-7f2174b4378c

They have the supply to vaccinate at the current rate for the rest of the week even with no more additional vaccines. 

At the current rate you can vaccinate (first dose) at 3 mil or so per month. That gets us at a pretty good benchmark by June. But the doses need to keep coming. 

You'd hope J&J can be introduced in May. 

DoFo has said they have the capacity for 150,000 a day but you don't want to just burn through that and not have any to fulfill appointments. You really should be planning a week ahead when allotting appointments. 

Edited by Boges
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1 hour ago, Boges said:

50+ in Hot spots and there are opportunities for people 18+ who are especially at risk to be vaccinated early. 

Can we be certain about that? The last I read it was 18+ in the "hotspots" and with no conditions. See, in barely two sentences already there's an essential misunderstanding. And we are in the second year of the pandemics. And more than half past pompous $20K monthly appointments and widely televised "trainings". One needs certain talent to achieve this sort of performance, not so?

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Ontario science advisory table says today they don't know how the list of preferential postal codes (114 in total) with general, 18+ vaccination was created.

Politicking with the pandemics - how would we know? And can it be excluded?

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I think people have to be willfully ignorant of the demographics of Ontario to know where the HotSpots are. We don't need Postal Codes to imagine where these places are. 

GOOD NEWS! Tomorrow people 40+ can get Astrazenca. Being 40+ I'll try to get one. If only to not have to worry about seeing family and friends anymore. 

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9 hours ago, Boges said:

GOOD NEWS! Tomorrow people 40+ can get Astrazenca. Being 40+ I'll try to get one. If only to not have to worry about seeing family and friends anymore. 

I would make sure to wait up to 15 days before the vaccine comes into full effect.

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Posted (edited)

Out of curiosity I compiled this table from two sources: the current number of new cases per health unit; and the number of "hotspot" priority vaccination postal codes in the health unit. Simple statistics: at less than 50% of population and about two thirds of new cases in the province GTA got close to 90% (i.e. 9 out of ten) of priority vaccination areas. City of Hamilton has higher cases to population ratio (~ 1 : 2,000) than Toronto, but 5 times fewer priority vaccination codes, proportionally to the population. Hamilton: 60% population, 70% cases compared to York; 15% (less than one sixth!) of "priority codes".

Does it make sense? Judge for yourself.

Ontario government criticized for inconsistent Covid policy

Unit              New cases      Hotspot codes    Population (mln)

Ontario         4,200                         ~ 110                        14.6
Toronto         1,250                             53                          ~ 30% of cases, half of priority codes                     
Peel                   770                             23                        
York                   390                             13
Durham            214                               5
Halton              170                               1
Total GTA      2,800                              95                          6.2, 86% of priority codes
Hamilton          280                               2                           600 thousand
Ottawa             180                                3                          1.0
Windsor             74                                6                          230 thousand
Other                                                      3
Edited by myata
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Posted (edited)

Once in a century pandemics. Peak of the third wave or near. One of the horror "hotspots". Weekend. Community vaccination clinic: closed.

Horror. Disaster. Folks!!! Call in the police and the army!

Give $15 minimal wage to a critical care personal worker in a "hotspot" battlezone. Pour $20 K monthly entitlements on "vaccine taskforce". See what happens. Yes, together!

Pandemic landscape in Ontario. Or a caricature of an effective and meaningful response?

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Peel, York and Toronto regularly record 50%+ of the daily cases and Hospitals in those regions, are the ones being buried. 

On Friday, Dofo announced that for the next 2 weeks, 50% of the vaccine supply will go to these "hot spots" 

Ontario also announced, yesterday, that adults 18+ will be able to book a vaccine through the Web portal. 

Ontario will see an influx of Pfizer and Moderna in the coming month. 

They'll also lower the age limit for the Rest of the Province to book an appointment by a decade per week. I think it's 50+ this week, 40+ the week after, 30+ the week after that and by May 2-4 all adults in the province will be able to book a vaccine appointment. 

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I was able to get my vaccination through my doctor.  She had an extra vaccine that went unused on Friday, so I got called and asked if I wanted it.  Went it, left 20 minutes later.  Felt kind of achy on Saturday, but that was about it.

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Peel, York and Toronto regularly record 50%+ of the daily cases and Hospitals in those regions, are the ones being buried. 

On Friday, Dofo announced that for the next 2 weeks, 50% of the vaccine supply will go to these "hot spots" 

Ontario also announced, yesterday, that adults 18+ will be able to book a vaccine through the Web portal. 

Ontario will see an influx of Pfizer and Moderna in the coming month.

Just because there's vaccine doesn't mean the problem is solved. Next problem is getting the right kind of people to go and get the shot. And we know who they are.

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