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Freespend screws over Canadians with success tax.


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https://www.thestar.com/business/2021/04/19/federal-budget-2021-ottawa-proposes-luxury-tax-on-pricey-cars-boats-planes.html

As usual, the Libs waste no opportunity to stick it to successful Canadians, but play politics with the cutoff limits and exemptions.

WTF is with allowing 250k baseline for boats (that start at a few thousand) but put $100k on a new airplane - NONE of which can sell anywhere near that price.   Similarly, why are motorhomes exempt???????

The NDP comment in this article is a bit closer to common sense - but they want to tax assets instead of income.   The real solution is, without any question - to tax things that do NOT create wealth and stay the fuck away from earned income that results from productive endeavour.   In other words - tax speculative gain...but that would mean housing/real estate and there isn't a Canadian politician with the balls (or the brains) to do that.

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I have to laugh at this post.  Many years ago, we had just bought a new and quite expensive piece of equipment for our business, and my wife had been asking to think about a larger car for her as our

And yet, Canada is begging for covid vaccines from other nations, including the U.S. and India, because it did not develop, test, or manufacture covid vaccine domestically, or maintain the capability

Punishing the rich and innovative is one of the tenets and fetishes of Marxists, Commies, and Liberals.  That's why Canada had no companies producing Covid vaccine when we needed them.  Companies and

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This is an election budget. They will figure a way to trigger an election late this spring or early summer, and this budget is designed to buy votes. The big tax increases will come AFTER they get a majority.

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8 minutes ago, Argus said:

This is an election budget. They will figure a way to trigger an election late this spring or early summer, and this budget is designed to buy votes. The big tax increases will come AFTER they get a majority.

I'm expecting a tax increase regardless of who is elected, just as soon as the pandemic is over and done.  

22 minutes ago, cannuck said:

In other words - tax speculative gain...but that would mean housing/real estate and there isn't a Canadian politician with the balls (or the brains) to do that.

I already pay taxes on my real estate, albeit not to the Feds.  And if I had a rental property, or a vacation property, and sold it, I'd have to pay capital gains on that.  So seems to me that's already taken care of.  If there was a similar tax on the sales of primary residences, I think it'd just drive up the price of housing.  After all, if I've got $XXX.XX worth of equity, and the government brings in a tax on any sale, then I'm going to want to ask enough to cover the tax above what I expect from my equity.   

But I think this is just a virtue-signaling tax - "Look how hard we're being on those nasty rich people, all you plebs!"  

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d:  I don't mean to tax the asset value, just the capital gain - at 99% day one, 95% first year, and so on down to nominal tax rate.   The vast majority of big money comes from speculative gain - and it not only creates no wealth - it removes investment capital from the reach of Main Street.   So, to summarize: you and everyone else should pay capital gain tax on you primary real estate as well as non-residential.   Do that and you remove the incentive to inflate real estate values.  You can ASK  for whatever you want, but tax the gain and the practice will go away.  Needed to be done a long time ago to keep housing affordable.

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Well the budget also provides some outlook through 2025/2026 and there don't appear to be any major tax increases or cuts to government department but gradually and wisely to address pandemic related huge deficit without hardships to Canadians.

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10 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Well the budget also provides some outlook through 2025/2026 and there don't appear to be any major tax increases or cuts to government department but gradually and wisely to address pandemic related huge deficit without hardships to Canadians.

Gradually and wisely, LOL. They are still forecasting a 31 billion deficit five years from now. This government will never live within its means.

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15 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Well the budget also provides some outlook through 2025/2026 and there don't appear to be any major tax increases or cuts to government department but gradually and wisely to address pandemic related huge deficit without hardships to Canadians.

So you have seen the amount the liberals are going to add to our current budget deficit, we have already added close to 400 bil last year and they plan to add another 151 bil this year, with the total deficit added during the liberal reign is well over 700 bil dollars.  My question is at what point do we become concern about the deficit, and at what point do we say enough is enough... yes the last 2 years have been shitty, but what happens if something else is around the corner, or for some untold reason interest rates start to climb, do you think we are going to be in a position as a nation to react to any new crises. 

You talk about hardships for Canadians, but according to our own government stats, every benefit that goes to Canadians tax payers, and bussiness have only cost a little over 150 bil, so what else are we buying ?      

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16 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Well the budget also provides some outlook through 2025/2026 and there don't appear to be any major tax increases or cuts to government department but gradually and wisely to address pandemic related huge deficit without hardships to Canadians.

Can you with 100 % certainty tell us that the liberals will not raise taxes... I mean becasue they have been so truthful in the past right. and while we are talking about hardships adding 700 bil to the debt is not a hardship to Canadians, and if not what amount is going to be a hardship... 

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What was completely missing from this budget, with its massive spending scattered almost everywhere, was anything for Defense, and anything about natural resources. Given how natural resources is a home-grown advantage for us and has always been a driver for our economy, that can only be based on Butts far left ideological beliefs. They don't want to develop oil and natural gas, they don't want to develop mines and forestry. They want solar panels and high tech. The problem is we have zero natural advantages for either. Other countries - lots of them, can do the same thing more cheaply than we can.

Three hundred and fifty billion spent and it's not going to do much of anything for our economy.

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21 hours ago, dialamah said:

I'm expecting a tax increase regardless of who is elected, just as soon as the pandemic is over and done.  

I already pay taxes on my real estate, albeit not to the Feds.  And if I had a rental property, or a vacation property, and sold it, I'd have to pay capital gains on that.  So seems to me that's already taken care of.  If there was a similar tax on the sales of primary residences, I think it'd just drive up the price of housing.  After all, if I've got $XXX.XX worth of equity, and the government brings in a tax on any sale, then I'm going to want to ask enough to cover the tax above what I expect from my equity.   

But I think this is just a virtue-signaling tax - "Look how hard we're being on those nasty rich people, all you plebs!"  

We’ve already had a big tax increase.  It was the carbon tax.  Now we need another tax increase?  At a time when people haven’t been able to work and businesses haven’t been allowed to stay open?  This is insanity.  We’re the only G7 country that’s increased taxes during this pandemic.  Because other countries know it’s a retarded idea.  But not us! 😂

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2 hours ago, Shady said:

We’ve already had a big tax increase.  It was the carbon tax.  Now we need another tax increase?  At a time when people haven’t been able to work and businesses haven’t been allowed to stay open?  This is insanity.  We’re the only G7 country that’s increased taxes during this pandemic.  Because other countries know it’s a retarded idea.  But not us! 😂

Not "US" shady, just the entire left , the right already knows how to be fiscal responsible, and what drives our economy.

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6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not "US" shady, just the entire left , the right already knows how to be fiscal responsible, and what drives our economy.

All righty then! I'm about as far left as anybody can go (certainly on this board) and I've just recently retired debt and mortgage free. Though that doesn't stop ads and telemarketers trying to talk me into taking on loans (for unexpected costs). I'm thinking maybe most people today haven't got everything in order before they retired, as used to be the standard until a few decades ago. 

Although my credit rating determines that I am not doing my part to "drive the economy" anymore! Twenty or 30 years ago, when I was carrying full mortgage and several thousand in higher interest debt, I was being told I had an excellent rating. But, after I paid off the mortgage, my last car and keep my last remaining credit card at a zero balance every month, now my score is barely 700. 

This is the problem with capitalist economics! You're not productive if you're not also in debt!

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6 hours ago, Right To Left said:

after I paid off the mortgage, my last car and keep my last remaining credit card at a zero balance every month, now my score is barely 700. 

Yeah, "credit rating" is a scam.  I get regular reports from both Transunion and Equifax, they're always different from each other and they bounce up and down without any rhyme or reason that I can identify.    When I renegotiated my mortgage, the credit union's rating was different from both Transunion and Equifax, and I was told that they didn't use those agencies.  

Other than my mortgage, I have no debt; only a Visa that gets paid off every month and my ratings hover just below 700.   I guess the deal is that they assume a credit card or loan is in my future, and so they're all set up to soak me, interest-wise, when that happens.  

7 hours ago, Right To Left said:

This is the problem with capitalist economics! You're not productive if you're not also in debt!

Yeah, debt has become intrinsically tied to a 'successful' capitalist economy - I read something on that a few years ago, can't remember all the details now though.  

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9 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yeah, "credit rating" is a scam.  I get regular reports from both Transunion and Equifax, they're always different from each other and they bounce up and down without any rhyme or reason that I can identify.    When I renegotiated my mortgage, the credit union's rating was different from both Transunion and Equifax, and I was told that they didn't use those agencies.  

Other than my mortgage, I have no debt; only a Visa that gets paid off every month and my ratings hover just below 700.   I guess the deal is that they assume a credit card or loan is in my future, and so they're all set up to soak me, interest-wise, when that happens.  

 

The free money is for the friends of the Federal Reserve and other central bankers around the world.  These "job creators" get money at low or no interest because they are assumed to be using the money to generate economic activity that will help everybody........I'm glad this is working out so far! 

And what really happens is that the bankers loan out money at extortionist rates to any prospective borrowers they think may be desperate and have to pay it back at high interest rates( they own the payday lenders, so they don't have to smear their own names). If this is any different than the loansharking that mobsters carry out, I'd like to know!

I just laugh when I get credit reports! If I'm not doing enough to have a high credit rating, I couldn't really give a crap!

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Yeah, debt has become intrinsically tied to a 'successful' capitalist economy - I read something on that a few years ago, can't remember all the details now though.  

I can't think of a better example of debt tied to success than rightwing hero - Donald J. Trump!  Around the time he got bounced out of office back in November, a prominent auditor tried to go through the public records available on his wealth and spending to determine approximately what Trump was really worth, and could only determine....largely because most of his wealth was in real estate, that he was either worth billions or he's already bankrupt.

Forbes last ranked Trump at a net worth of 2.4 billion; Trump himself claimed to be worth $10 billion, and some who've gone through the record of his public debts and bankruptcies say he may not actually be worth anything at all! Just another real estate developer holding more debts than assets that have real value.

By that rating, he would be typical of a lot of similar real estate moguls sitting on billions of dollars worth of commercial real estate with many properties facing foreclosure in the not so distant future. 

It was always assumed that Trump would try to advance his personal wealth while in the White House, but if anything, he may have actually lost money because of the decline in his hotel and casino holdings that most rich New Yorkers and Floridians no longer want to be seen in!  It's possible that Donald Trump may be in a similar situation as many billionaire owners of shopping malls and office towers that cannot earn money as long as the pandemic drags on. If I'm looking for a source of the stories that Covid-19 is fake, I'll start with them!

I'm just wondering what this world will look like in the near future, after the pandemic has died down a bit, and price discovery for real estate and stock and bond prices becomes a real thing again for the first time in a number of years. If there's a complete market meltdown, I'm not going to be too surprised!  The value of my locked in pension funds will take hits because the last thing fund managers do is protect the assets of lowly investors who are stuck going down with the ship! But, I'll manage without them if we need to.

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20 hours ago, Right To Left said:

All righty then! I'm about as far left as anybody can go (certainly on this board) and I've just recently retired debt and mortgage free. Though that doesn't stop ads and telemarketers trying to talk me into taking on loans (for unexpected costs). I'm thinking maybe most people today haven't got everything in order before they retired, as used to be the standard until a few decades ago. 

Although my credit rating determines that I am not doing my part to "drive the economy" anymore! Twenty or 30 years ago, when I was carrying full mortgage and several thousand in higher interest debt, I was being told I had an excellent rating. But, after I paid off the mortgage, my last car and keep my last remaining credit card at a zero balance every month, now my score is barely 700. 

This is the problem with capitalist economics! You're not productive if you're not also in debt!

Good for you, i think most people in my generation are sitting in the same space, i still have a mortgage but it will be paid off in 2 years. But we all know there is a major difference between running a nation and it's finances , and running your families household. That being said why have YOU decided that it was important to pay off your mortgage...

And why has the left decided the sky is the limit to spending bringing in more social programs that are only temporary, as we can not sustain this type of expenditures, you can see that right....none of these programs are here to stay, atleast not with out cutting more than 100 Bil in the budget....something has to give it is either that or taxes goes up, taxes for everyone....And we already know how popular free money is to the left...

I have included the entire left, because the NDP also thinks there is a endless pit of money sitting in Ottawa, hence why they want many more programs like pharm care, child care, paid sick leave, the list goes on,   The liberals have already spent close to 400 bil dollars to date , and have announced 154 bil more this year, and almost 100 bil up until the next election. So where do you draw the line... is it once the national debt gets doubled , or there is no limit we spend like drunken sailors.... either or it does not follow your personal financial plan you have set for your self...  

One more point, This entire country was built on the capitalist economy, i mean even you are following some of its principals, and you are on the extreme left... 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

One more point, This entire country was built on the capitalist economy, i mean even you are following some of its principals, and you are on the extreme left... 

Except I am part of a minority who realizes that economic theories don't work if the real world cannot support them! 

So, capitalism...based on the assumptions of continued long-term infinite growth, cannot function in a finite world!

Unless of course, you decide to kill off large portions of the population every so often and rebuild.

Otherwise, depleted levels of almost all of the non-renewable resources needed by industry and atmospheric CO2 levels closing in on 420 ppm (expected to top 500 ppm by 2050's) poisoned oceans etc. etc. etc.....so where is capitalism going to get future generations here?

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14 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Except I am part of a minority who realizes that economic theories don't work if the real world cannot support them! 

So, capitalism...based on the assumptions of continued long-term infinite growth, cannot function in a finite world!

Unless of course, you decide to kill off large portions of the population every so often and rebuild.

Otherwise, depleted levels of almost all of the non-renewable resources needed by industry and atmospheric CO2 levels closing in on 420 ppm (expected to top 500 ppm by 2050's) poisoned oceans etc. etc. etc.....so where is capitalism going to get future generations here?

So you think we should change directions and go to more of a social government where all your needs are meet by government, so we don't have to work or be responsible for anything, ... you think that is going to change todays world... not on your life, if there is one thing that brings together everyone , regardless of religion, race ,creed, or government type ,( it is greed,) want to make change on a grand scale  make it profitable to do so...

Canada has been blessed with resources, that are not going to one day just dry up, and like i said unless you make it profitable climate is only going to get worse... that is human nature, and it does not follow government type or relgion, creed, race, or anything.

Capitalism will get us to where ever the money is flowing.

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On 4/21/2021 at 12:41 AM, Right To Left said:

Although my credit rating determines that I am not doing my part to "drive the economy" anymore! Twenty or 30 years ago, when I was carrying full mortgage and several thousand in higher interest debt, I was being told I had an excellent rating. But, after I paid off the mortgage, my last car and keep my last remaining credit card at a zero balance every month, now my score is barely 700. 

This is the problem with capitalist economics! You're not productive if you're not also in debt!

I have to laugh at this post.  Many years ago, we had just bought a new and quite expensive piece of equipment for our business, and my wife had been asking to think about a larger car for her as our 2 kids she hauled all over the place were becoming teens and were quite tall.  We thought that we would look at a minivan because, what the heck, everyone else has one.   Went to local Chrysler store and asked to see a loaded up AWD Grand Caravan - and they had one in off of lease with low miles.  They gave it to us for weekend, and we left them telling that we would need to finance for a couple months as I had just spent all of our available cash.   We ran our business on zero credit simply because we don't like debt.  Brought the van back Monday telling them 16 mpg just didn't fit into our 60mpg normal experience.  Finance guy said that this was fine since there is no way to extend any credit to us.  Turns out we didn't have a good credit rating and we didn't have a bad one - we had NO credit rating at all so their lending protocols simply didn't fit.

About a dozen or so year later, our youngest graduated and wanted to buy her first new car.  She wanted a Jeep (for business use) so here we were back at the same Chrysler store.  She had just bought a house and was to start work in a few days, so I slipped her a wad of cash for the downstroke and we took a test drive.  When we came back, the finance guy was standing there with the other set of keys in hand and asked us to come in and sign off.   About half way through, he looks at me and says: "I know you from somewhere" and after a bit...:"YOU'RE the no credit rating guy!".  We both had a great laugh that someone who could most days stroke a cheque for any car on his lot he couldn't finance for a cheap used car but the kids we raised and put through 20 odd years of University could get a shiny new one AND a new house without even having a job!!!!!!

You are so right: it is all about the credit rating - but that has nothing to do with "capitalist economics" it is about how the credit business has grown and evolved.   In my much younger years as a banker, we were expected to know our customers and made lending decisions up to a branch limit right at the counter.  Today, lending is so huge and involves so many poorly or untrained front offices (and this now includes banks) their book is controlled by procedures that take 99% of the discretionary authority away from the contact level operative.  It has been replaced by protocols that simply refer to the very arbitrary and narrowly defined set of rules that establish a credit rating.   This is nothing to do with capitalism, it is simply about consumerism.   If it was about capitalism, a capitalist pig such as myself would be welcomed with open arms.

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18 hours ago, cannuck said:

 

You are so right: it is all about the credit rating - but that has nothing to do with "capitalist economics" it is about how the credit business has grown and evolved.   In my much younger years as a banker, we were expected to know our customers and made lending decisions up to a branch limit right at the counter.  Today, lending is so huge and involves so many poorly or untrained front offices (and this now includes banks) their book is controlled by procedures that take 99% of the discretionary authority away from the contact level operative.  It has been replaced by protocols that simply refer to the very arbitrary and narrowly defined set of rules that establish a credit rating.   This is nothing to do with capitalism, it is simply about consumerism.   If it was about capitalism, a capitalist pig such as myself would be welcomed with open arms.

You and I have different definitions of capitalism apparently! You seem to believe there is some built-in moral framework of capitalism, and that is not part of any definition of capitalism I've ever seen, or that the 'market' is supposed to function by moral force instead of the morally blind forces of supply and demand. Outside rules may be imposed on this system, but that is not capitalism! 

Exactly opposite about Consumerism, which is supposed to be a working principle that encourages buying of goods and services to be a public good in and of itself. If government or society at large, wants to encourage consumer spending, that means loosening credit as much as possible.  And that's how we end up with high school grads getting unsolicited credit card offers that have no credit check to pass before getting the card in the mail! 

When "lending" is loose and unconstrained by credit qualifications, the bank doesn't even need a local loan officer anymore, who will just get in the way, and reduce profit margins....so, they get rid of him and cut the middleman.

This is capitalism pure and simple! Load consumers with high interest debt, remove options to discharge debt through bankruptcy, as has already happened in the US for everyone (except for the goddammed banks and the largest too-big-to-fail accounts), and bleed those consumers for everything they have and earn, and discard them when they are used up!  

Your version of capitalism is about trying to concoct a magical time when capitalism was perfect. But that magical time came about because of laws and constraints put on banking and lending after the bank failures of the 30's Depression destroyed the system and cleaned out the deposits of millions of bank customers. 

I would agree that the credit ratings are just games used...likely to try to encourage more borrowing and line bank profits, since they have an incentive to play games with credit ratings...leaving the loan and cardholders with the mistaken impression that they are part of a logical fair system, rather than the phony shakedown being run in actual fact.  If it increases profits for the institution issuing cards or writing up new loans, that certainly is following capitalist principles, however you want to define it!

 

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On 4/22/2021 at 3:36 PM, Army Guy said:

So you think we should change directions and go to more of a social government where all your needs are meet by government, so we don't have to work or be responsible for anything, ... you think that is going to change todays world... not on your life, if there is one thing that brings together everyone , regardless of religion, race ,creed, or government type ,( it is greed,) want to make change on a grand scale  make it profitable to do so...

The bolded part is because I see a distinction between wants and needs!  And up till post-war hedonistic times, so did most North Americans!  

IF we have a society that ensures everyone's needs, that can be accomplished very easily today!  Too be clear, we don't NEED houses that are (as of 20 years ago) 60% larger than homes built during the start of the baby boom in the 1950's! Nor do most of us NEED cars either!  I got rid of my last car 3 years ago, since my wife was no longer able to drive and I didn't need or want it to go to work or go shopping. Since I'm retired now, there is even less reason to have a car. Local transit is good enough, and on rare occasions when I feel the need to have a car or a truck, I rent one for the day or weekend.  And, then there's all the clothes, TV's, electronics, cellphones, new furniture etc. etc.. 

I know a lot of people are going to have greater needs than we do, but how much of what people are buying today could be classified as "essential?"  I would say the same thing goes with buying expensive processed foods, instead of getting acquainted with the produce aisles. 

This was the typical mindset of most people who went through 30's Depression and austerity years. My father wouldn't buy a new pair of shoes until the last 'cobbler' or shoe repair shop disappeared. The idea of throwing anything away that could be fixed, was just an abomination to his generation. Same with my mother, who was about 6 years younger but still was young in the depression, and so she always had her sewing machine in good working order, whenever we needed buttons to be sewn back on or any of us needed stitching repairs.  

Their way of frugal living was lost on us boomers and younger generations, but now, I wonder if it's coming back again! Because necessity will bring an end to throwaway culture that has made it so cheap that many fashion-conscious women decided it was better to throw away a dress after wearing it once, than to risk being seen in the same dress a second time out! 

Certainly the poorly paid women working in the sweatshops making all the cheap synthetic clothes and running shoes, could never afford the sticker price of the clothes they make! As our earning levels drop to third world standards, the majority of people will have to be more frugal also. 

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Canada has been blessed with resources, that are not going to one day just dry up, and like i said unless you make it profitable climate is only going to get worse... that is human nature, and it does not follow government type or relgion, creed, race, or anything.

Capitalism will get us to where ever the money is flowing.

 

Maybe it's time to wake up! Some of our 'blessed' resources are running out now also!  You may not have received the message, but this is why Canadian mining companies have gone more and more international....in the search for worthwhile gold, silver, copper, even nickel deposits...that we used to believe were endless!

They are "endless" only in the sense that since the first humans started panning for gold and then digging in the earth for other valuable minerals thousands of years ago, miners have functioned under the principle of Pick The Low-Hanging Fruit First" ..... in other words, take the richest surface deposits of any ore before moving on to deeper and less pure deposits.  

When we're talking gold, that means each oz. of refined, pure gold has come up with 100,000 times or more of rock, other less desired metals and debris. And this makes mining more expensive and energy-intensive as ores are gradually mined out!  The ore veins never technically end....there's always trace amounts left behind, but they are deemed not worth pulling up because at some point the costs outweigh the advantages of going after them. 

And simple fact is, the wanton, uncontrolled exploitation of our planet will come to an end one way or another, and capitalist forces will only serve as a further hindrance/not a solution!

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15 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's time to wake up! Some of our 'blessed' resources are running out now also!  You may not have received the message, but this is why Canadian mining companies have gone more and more international....in the search for worthwhile gold, silver, copper, even nickel deposits...that we used to believe were endless!

They are "endless" only in the sense that since the first humans started panning for gold and then digging in the earth for other valuable minerals thousands of years ago, miners have functioned under the principle of Pick The Low-Hanging Fruit First" ..... in other words, take the richest surface deposits of any ore before moving on to deeper and less pure deposits.  

When we're talking gold, that means each oz. of refined, pure gold has come up with 100,000 times or more of rock, other less desired metals and debris. And this makes mining more expensive and energy-intensive as ores are gradually mined out!  The ore veins never technically end....there's always trace amounts left behind, but they are deemed not worth pulling up because at some point the costs outweigh the advantages of going after them. 

And simple fact is, the wanton, uncontrolled exploitation of our planet will come to an end one way or another, and capitalist forces will only serve as a further hindrance/not a solution!

I don't understand your thought process, you've spent several paras trying to convince me on how wasting resources is a bad thing, and how todays Canadians are bred to be wasteful...And i agree with you 100 % on that point, but industry, government , generations of Canadians have all been taught or practice this wastefulness... and yet the liberals are proposing to do just that, spending on huge programs that don't really serve ALL Canadians nor are they "needs" as you describe.

For instance stats can estimates over 300,000 14, 15 and 16 receive the CERB or what ever they name it now, " free money who can resist, but here is the other kicker more than 60 % of these kids come from families with over 150 k annually income.. not to mention all the adults taking the system for a ride.

Here in NB people live on taken advantage of these programs all the time, with generation after generation on welfare, why work when the government will support them with free money... and it's not hard to find these people, they are the ones with the new cars and trucks in the driveways, they would rather buy beer than food for their thousands of kids...my point is this Canadians are lazy as F*** and don't mind taking advantage of these programs... 

The liberals are bringing in programs that cost many bils to bring in, how are we going to pay for all of them, we as a nation can not continue to add 100's of bils to our debt load. at some point the treasury is going to run dry, interest rates are not staying low forever. so these programs are temporary at best.. 

you've just explained everything i have been telling you, so i know you understand, and yet you still 100 % a liberal supporter. Why ? 

Resources are not scarce here in Canada, lots of mines in NB that have closed down, not due to lack of minerals in the ground, but rather special interest groups, peace niks what ever you call them, that and the government at all levels have put so much red tape in mining , logging  oil and gas, there is just to much red tape to jump through...Shit you can't even start up a chain saw here in NB without drawing a crowd of hippies... 90 % of our mills have closed down, and new Brunswick is chocked full of trees. and now the forestry dept. is looking hard at making fuel out of trees....Alberata could supply the entire country with oil and gas for 100's of years...and when they run out NFLD has half that much...and we still have not even begun to tap into the north...

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I don't understand your thought process, you've spent several paras trying to convince me on how wasting resources is a bad thing, and how todays Canadians are bred to be wasteful...And i agree with you 100 % on that point, but industry, government , generations of Canadians have all been taught or practice this wastefulness... and yet the liberals are proposing to do just that, spending on huge programs that don't really serve ALL Canadians nor are they "needs" as you describe.

For instance stats can estimates over 300,000 14, 15 and 16 receive the CERB or what ever they name it now, " free money who can resist, but here is the other kicker more than 60 % of these kids come from families with over 150 k annually income.. not to mention all the adults taking the system for a ride.

Here in NB people live on taken advantage of these programs all the time, with generation after generation on welfare, why work when the government will support them with free money... and it's not hard to find these people, they are the ones with the new cars and trucks in the driveways, they would rather buy beer than food for their thousands of kids...my point is this Canadians are lazy as F*** and don't mind taking advantage of these programs... 

The liberals are bringing in programs that cost many bils to bring in, how are we going to pay for all of them, we as a nation can not continue to add 100's of bils to our debt load. at some point the treasury is going to run dry, interest rates are not staying low forever. so these programs are temporary at best.. 

you've just explained everything i have been telling you, so i know you understand, and yet you still 100 % a liberal supporter. Why ? 

Resources are not scarce here in Canada, lots of mines in NB that have closed down, not due to lack of minerals in the ground, but rather special interest groups, peace niks what ever you call them, that and the government at all levels have put so much red tape in mining , logging  oil and gas, there is just to much red tape to jump through...Shit you can't even start up a chain saw here in NB without drawing a crowd of hippies... 90 % of our mills have closed down, and new Brunswick is chocked full of trees. and now the forestry dept. is looking hard at making fuel out of trees....Alberata could supply the entire country with oil and gas for 100's of years...and when they run out NFLD has half that much...and we still have not even begun to tap into the north...

I am not a liberal, nor do I support the Liberal Party and/or its leader, who seems to have the CBC and most corporate media in this country kissing his ass.  Politics in Canada has become just as much about spectacle as in the US, and just as devoid of substance!

- most Canadians are wasteful because that's what they learn from all of the advertising, marketing and social media messaging they're deluged with 24/7. 

- I was working until I retired a week ago, and our two boys are both working full time, and most everyone else I know personally is either working or retired now. SO, I don't know anybody collecting from CERB, and with everything else going on, I've skipped right by every story I've seen on it, since it doesn't apply to me. 

- all I can say is that at least we have somewhat of a better situation than the capitalist paradise south of the border, which is getting pretty close to meltdown now!  Every day, the big story is either cops killing people or someone going postal and killing a bunch of people somewhere! 

- there are no straight line cause and effects from millions of Americans going through sudden economic collapse now...into bankruptcy, job loss, homelessness etc. and the surge in shootings, mass murders, suicides, and cops playing judge, jury and executioner now, but I think we're doing a little better because even though a lot of the supposed covid relief benefits have been skimmed off by the rich and business owners, unlike the US, some of the money has at least tricked down to prevent more people from falling through the cracks!

- on that, we do need to note that even where I am, I can see a big increase in our homeless populations this year from a year or two years ago. Those who are already on the bottom rungs of the ladder because they are mentally ill, disabled or unable to earn enough to keep their apartments in an insane real estate situation, have been in a precarious situation this winter. I don't know how many died over the last six months or so, cause they were living outside and not allowed into shelters for various reasons, but I'm sure the number is way higher than normal cause there seems to be so many out there now...in back alleys, parks etc.

 

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Edited by Right To Left
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11 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

- there are no straight line cause and effects from millions of Americans going through sudden economic collapse now...into bankruptcy, job loss, homelessness etc.

 

Actually, the U.S. unemployment rate is lower than in Canada, and the U.S. economy is doing much better.   Canada may still be the worst among G-7 nations, and was teetering on recession even before COVID because of low oil prices, domestic unrest, rail stoppages, etc.

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