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trade sick, disabled for working illegals


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Can you imagine what it is like for an educated, experience, once respected person to be told they can find work in a "workshop" for the disabled making birdhouses? Being funneled into a system that is so generalized that you are lumped in with the severely mentally handicapped ? Or be told you can live in community housing with "low lifes" and "career welfare recipients", substance abusers etc?

I dont want to appear judgemental, oh what the hell, I am judgemental, substance abuse is a choice. Being a welfare mother with six children and no education is a choice, and to lump everyone together in one great cesspool of humanity is unhumane and to be "judged" to belong with this group is too horrific to seem real.

But it is real. Its what is happening to the person who got the education, had the career, was earning the big bucks, had the BMW or at least was aiming for it -- had the perks, the respect and admiration, the house in the burbs, the 1.5 children, a spouse and a Pension Plan ......

And suddenly that is all yanked away from them and they are told you belong with this group of non-achiever, low life substance abusers and career welfare recipients -- its not JUST the poverty, its that they are told, meant to feel THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE now ----- :( Suddenly you deserve no respect, no consideration, no independence, or anything other than the scorn of those who are supposed to assist you?

If anyone thinks WCB, or Long Term Disabilty Plans will protect them think again .... its a myth.

How long could any of the posters here sustain their lifestyle and pursue their dreams if they were suddenly forced to do so on their savings and assets with NO income from this day onwards?

How long would it be before you had absolutely nothing and were standing on a street corner begging for money for food?

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  • 2 weeks later...
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When I was young and healthy I was a conservative but now when I am sick and unable to work supported by my wife I know from my personal experience that when someone gets sick he or she gets automatically fired by fellow conservatives the right's opressive agenda that "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" means "WORK BRINGS FREEDOM" or those who do not work do not eat or if someone does not work does not sleep is inhuman and opressive

VERY well put.

And there's nothing to be ashamed of that you switched mentalities. Everyone was brainwashed early on in life that people who are on welfare are swindlers, disabled people are at the full employ of the "kind canadian system with social workers who have a smile on their face"

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Can you imagine what it is like for an educated, experience, once respected person to be told they can find work in a "workshop" for the disabled making birdhouses? Being funneled into a system that is so generalized that you are lumped in with the severely mentally handicapped ? Or be told you can live in community housing with "low lifes" and "career welfare recipients", substance abusers etc?

I dont want to appear judgemental, oh what the hell, I am judgemental, substance abuse is a choice. Being a welfare mother with six children and no education is a choice, and to lump everyone together in one great cesspool of humanity is unhumane and to be "judged" to belong with this group is too horrific to seem real.

But it is real. Its what is happening to the person who got the education, had the career, was earning the big bucks, had the BMW or at least was aiming for it -- had the perks, the respect and admiration, the house in the burbs, the 1.5 children, a spouse and a Pension Plan ......

And suddenly that is all yanked away from them and they are told you belong with this group of non-achiever, low life substance abusers and career welfare recipients -- its not JUST the poverty, its that they are told, meant to feel THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE now ----- :( Suddenly you deserve no respect, no consideration, no independence, or anything other than the scorn of those who are supposed to assist you?

If anyone thinks WCB, or Long Term Disabilty Plans will protect them think again .... its a myth.

How long could any of the posters here sustain their lifestyle and pursue their dreams if they were suddenly forced to do so on their savings and assets with NO income from this day onwards?

How long would it be before you had absolutely nothing and were standing on a street corner begging for money for food?

Kindred,

Jesus Christ is an example how end up those who care for poor and disabled and expose establishment doublethink.

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It is a bigger "crime" in terms of "punishment" in Canada to be poor or disabled then it is to murder someone. Criminals get free Legal Aid, the poor and the disabled get no assistance from the system and no assistance to fight the system ......

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It is a bigger "crime" in terms of "punishment" in Canada to be poor or disabled then it is to murder someone. Criminals get free Legal Aid, the poor and the disabled get no assistance from the system and no assistance to fight the system ......
This thread reminds me of a diaper...'8-10 lbs' of crap, it's full, and it's time to throw it out.
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Can you imagine what it is like for an educated, experience, once respected person to be told they can find work in a "workshop" for the disabled making birdhouses? Being funneled into a system that is so generalized that you are lumped in with the severely mentally handicapped ? Or be told you can live in community housing with "low lifes" and "career welfare recipients", substance abusers etc?

I dont want to appear judgemental, oh what the hell, I am judgemental, substance abuse is a choice. Being a welfare mother with six children and no education is a choice, and to lump everyone together in one great cesspool of humanity is unhumane and to be "judged" to belong with this group is too horrific to seem real.

But it is real. Its what is happening to the person who got the education, had the career, was earning the big bucks, had the BMW or at least was aiming for it -- had the perks, the respect and admiration, the house in the burbs, the 1.5 children, a spouse and a Pension Plan ......

And suddenly that is all yanked away from them and they are told you belong with this group of non-achiever, low life substance abusers and career welfare recipients -- its not JUST the poverty, its that they are told, meant to feel THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE now ----- :( Suddenly you deserve no respect, no consideration, no independence, or anything other than the scorn of those who are supposed to assist you?

If anyone thinks WCB, or Long Term Disabilty Plans will protect them think again .... its a myth.

How long could any of the posters here sustain their lifestyle and pursue their dreams if they were suddenly forced to do so on their savings and assets with NO income from this day onwards?

How long would it be before you had absolutely nothing and were standing on a street corner begging for money for food?

I know what you are getting at and I am not disagreeing with you but I do think pride can be a problem that prevents a lot of people from changing because it prevents them from asking for help and giving them an illusion that they are too good to consider certain things. I am not saying we should expect people to accept being humiliated but I do think for a lot of people with serious limitations, have overcome them and the barriers that come with them, precisely because they learned to not let their pride get in their way. I say that because I watch many disabled make it but deal with having their dignity taken away but refusing to let it get to them. You have to admire that kind of tenacity, courage and strength.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I missed a few points here and I'd like to clarify my position.

Geoffrey

Would you hire somebody like me?

I have excellent knowledge of human and labour rights, history of standing up, almost 20 years of experience from insurance and finacial industries, university education and few professional designations.

But there is a little problem ... I am suffering from mental and physical difficulties.

I don't know what your profession is, so it's not like I'm going to make a commitment to hire you. Not to mention I'm not in a hiring role anymore.

But theoretically? If your that knowledgable on the topics you say you are, and I had a need for that in my business, absolutely I'd hire you. If I had to make concessions such as a couple extra breaks a day or a more expensive chair to compensate for some injury for example, I'd be happy to do so if your value to the business justified it. Even out of goodwill to some extent, I'd be willing to accomodate. Many businesses are for highly skilled professionals such as yourself.

Geoffrey is indeed being awfully general in his comments about how simple it is for disabled people to find work. What he is really against is people who overstate or use their level of diability as an excuse not to work...but he is painting the entire group with that brush. In my experience, I can assure you that it can be incredibly difficult for disabled people to find and keep a job...there just aren't that many employers out there who see fit to make meaningful accomodations...and yes, the legal battles can drag on for years.

I apologise for my generalities, but I still insist that there are always jobs that do fit most disabled profiles. There are, of course, exceptions.

That being said, it does not take "x-ray vision" to walk the streets of Calgary and see many people who have no physical affliction whatsoever begging for money from people who actually work to make it...I can understand Geoffrey's frustrations to an extent when you travel down any street in the city and literally 8 out of 10 stores has a sign that says "now hiring".

I can accept that many mental health afflictions are not readily apparent, so I do not suggest that all of these people are freeloaders, but I can assure you that many "panhandlers" choose not to work in a normal job setting.

Some openly admit they don't want to work.

I recall when the City was imposing increased by-law penalties on "squeegee kids" that it became a media circus for some time. An upstart entrpreneur with a house-building business went to the main area for squeegee kids and offered anyone and everyone a job as a framer / labourer at far more than minimum wage...not one person took him up on his offer. This is not directly related to disabled people, but is analogous.

Absolutely, there are many 'staffing' agencies that do this. Most are unsuccessful.

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  • 5 months later...

and apologize for grave digging

-------

I've only skimmed this topic a bit..and found information on the disable. I received ODSP, from Ontario. I was found 'substancially mentally disabled'. I first found out I would be elibigle for ODSP when I was forcibly confined against my will and forced psychotropics for over 1 month (against my will). I didn't follow up on it right away but started the process.. which took about half a year.

The issue that led me to post was "only seriouslly disabled people can't work e.g. parapalegics". I think that part of the issue is quality of employment. Some people with mental disorders can be disruptive to a work environment or undependable, it is not that they arn't able to do the task, it is that they cannot maintain a stable work situation --- or the drugs they take (prescriptions) cause serious side effects that can be dibilitating, or create akwardness and discomfort on an ongoing basis.

True work is not totally closed off, and there are work programs to get people back to work or in some cases self employed. However in many cases I think that accomodations for the disable and the potentially reduced work quality, has them passed over as valued workers in many instances.

There is an unemployment rate, meaning that employeers can choose their employees, in some cases having a disabled person can add tax benifits but in others.. a healthy person is obviously going to be a better hiring choice for most work sites.

Another fact is that if they weren't receiving disability and instead where in an institution or jail.. the costs of care would be more and have signifiganty decreased chance of reintigration in society; not to mention that they wouln't have personal rights and would be controlled much more heavily.

Also disability payments arn't all roses. For instance in ontario privacy rights are dramatically increased with your finances and personal living space able to be inspected at basically any time.

People with mental disabilities particularly also may not have the same rights if arrested.. that is they get diverted from the courts and can end up with 'indefinate sentances' without a proper court case.

True technically people may be able to do something when they are able to.. but that isn't necisarily dependable and someone still has to hire them. For most unskilled jobs, employeers will likely pass over someone with a disability if they offer no benifits over a healthy worker.. and there is an ample labour force.

True they may be able to work.. but a doctor says that there may be barriers or they need special care. For instance what if someone suffering dillusions causes a disturbance, or what is a blind person going to do in a factory if they don't have any tradeskills, is it safe for them to be there. What about someone with depression, are they going to improve the moral of a workplace? etc...

it ain't just if they can.. but what is the greater effect of them there.

I think people that arn't disabled or knowing of anyone who has a disability are willing to cut them off.. well it'll likely cost you more another way.

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and apologize for grave digging
Some of us do not mind. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home.

Personally, the cost is secondary. I want to understand the morality of how to properly deal with mentally ill people.

I was found 'substancially mentally disabled'. I first found out I would be elibigle for ODSP when I was forcibly confined against my will and forced psychotropics for over 1 month (against my will).
I have sympathy for you being treated against your will. If you could go back in time, how would you have liked to have been treated differently?
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