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betsy

"Conservatives On The Defensive!"

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I would presume it's a wish for Canada's good health from a very religious man. You have a problem with religious people wishing Canada well?

I have a problem with a leader who fuses religion in with his message. I believe that the church has absolutely no business being mixed with politics. Harper is sounding like GWB more and more every day.

Phht, you could as well say he's sounding like the Queen. She often says the same thing.

As for religion in politics, our culture and its value system can largely be traced to the judeo-christian roots most of us share.

All of the governments you cited did everything you said they did, and as I stated earlier I am not defending any previous government. I do not hate the Condervatives, I know a few Conservative MPs - what I do not like is the way they conduct themselves in the House, and I feel it is far beyond patting themselves on the back. They act like babies. They don't answer questions and when they do it turns out to be either a half truth or an outright lie

In other words, they act like the previous governments did?

All this from a government who was supposed to clean up government and be more transparent.

I believe that to affect serious changes in government, including transparancy, you need to have a degree of stability which you simply don't get in a minority. In minorities, all any of the parties are worried about is their popularity NOW. They have little time for high-sounding ideals when an election could be around the corner.

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Using the phrase 'God Bless Canada' in speeches made in the role of Prime Minister is not appropriate because it is insulting to many Canadians who do not believe in his brand of Christianity.

In all seriousness, anyone who feels insulted by that should leave Canada. I would be more than willing to help pay their way to some more suitable home.

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Please answer the question: how would you feel if the PM starting ending his speeches with 'May the light of Allah shine on Canada'?
How would I feel if Stephen Harper started to say 'May the light of Allah shine on Canada' at the end of his speeches? I'd feel that I had landed in some alternate universe, a weird Hollywood movie, or that Harper was just nuts.

----

But to answer your question, the phrase "God Bless Canada" is sufficiently neutral to encompass just about anybody except agnostics and atheists. I suppose it might offend people who believe they are open-minded because they tolerate non-Christian religious expressions. It will certainly offend people who don't like Stephen Harper, but then anything he says will offend them.

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Using the phrase 'God Bless Canada' in speeches made in the role of Prime Minister is not appropriate because it is insulting to many Canadians who do not believe in his brand of Christianity.

In all seriousness, anyone who feels insulted by that should leave Canada. I would be more than willing to help pay their way to some more suitable home.

In all seriousness, that statement is ridiculous. Most people who call themselves Christians are for the most part non-practising. Just do a poll and see how many Canadians actually attend chruch and you'll see it is far below 50%.

Another fundamental error in your reasoning is this: Harper does not embody Christianity. He is apparently one of the most foul-mouthed politicians in the land.

Oh, I would like do move to Honduras...if you would please deposit the airfare into my paypal account I would appreciate it.

It's one thing to be religious, it is another thing to just say "Hey, I am religious...now let's get back to the f***ing negotiations..."

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Using the phrase 'God Bless Canada' in speeches made in the role of Prime Minister is not appropriate because it is insulting to many Canadians who do not believe in his brand of Christianity.

In all seriousness, anyone who feels insulted by that should leave Canada. I would be more than willing to help pay their way to some more suitable home.

In all seriousness, that statement is ridiculous. Most people who call themselves Christians are for the most part non-practising. Just do a poll and see how many Canadians actually attend chruch and you'll see it is far below 50%.

Another fundamental error in your reasoning is this: Harper does not embody Christianity. He is apparently one of the most foul-mouthed politicians in the land.

Oh, I would like do move to Honduras...if you would please deposit the airfare into my paypal account I would appreciate it.

It's one thing to be religious, it is another thing to just say "Hey, I am religious...now let's get back to the f***ing negotiations..."

What percentage of Canadians consider themselves Christian is the question you're not asking. But how many Canadians attend church, or what Harper may or may not embody are side bar issues at best. Again, Canada has a background that happens to be Christian, so for a PM to say God Bless Canada once in a while is not out of line, unless you've got a religious chip on your shoulder.

Oh, and more bad news: I hear there are Christians in Honduras.

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Using the phrase 'God Bless Canada' in speeches made in the role of Prime Minister is not appropriate because it is insulting to many Canadians who do not believe in his brand of Christianity.

In all seriousness, anyone who feels insulted by that should leave Canada. I would be more than willing to help pay their way to some more suitable home.

In all seriousness, that statement is ridiculous. Most people who call themselves Christians are for the most part non-practising. Just do a poll and see how many Canadians actually attend chruch and you'll see it is far below 50%.

Another fundamental error in your reasoning is this: Harper does not embody Christianity. He is apparently one of the most foul-mouthed politicians in the land.

Oh, I would like do move to Honduras...if you would please deposit the airfare into my paypal account I would appreciate it.

It's one thing to be religious, it is another thing to just say "Hey, I am religious...now let's get back to the f***ing negotiations..."

What percentage of Canadians consider themselves Christian is the question you're not asking. But how many Canadians attend church, or what Harper may or may not embody are side bar issues at best. Again, Canada has a background that happens to be Christian, so for a PM to say God Bless Canada once in a while is not out of line, unless you've got a religious chip on your shoulder.

Oh, and more bad news: I hear there are Christians in Honduras.

Listen carefully - saying "Hey, I am Christian" while not embodying any Christian values (whatever that may be) mean s you are not Christian.

It would be like me saying "Hey, I am Bhuddist." "Why Oddman?" - "Beacuase I said so."

I don't have a religious chip on my shoulder - I just believe it should be kept as far away from politics as possible.

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I don't have a religious chip on my shoulder - I just believe it should be kept as far away from politics as possible.

Oddman in regards to Harper and his "God Bless Canada" you're the odd ball.

Poll respondents give blessing to Harper's 'God bless Canada'

Even our Constitution starts out with the words "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God..."

or how about the national anthem?

.....God keep our land glorious and free!

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

And we always seem to ask for God to bless our country on Remembrance Day.

And I agree with the others,you do have a religiious chip on your shoulder along with that big 2x4 chip for the conservatives.

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For a PM to ask Allah's blessing, he would have to be a Muslim. The chances of that happening are slim and none. Even if it did, I bet he would observe the tradition of the country he's in.
The traditions of the country he is in include the freedom the believe in a religion of his choosing so there should be absolutely nothing wrong with him saying such a thing. However, I am sure there would be many people who would be up in arms over such a comment. That is why I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise Harper for making statements that clearly favour one religion over another. If you agree that there is nothing wrong with a Muslim PM calling on Allah to bless the country then I will agree there is nothing wrong with Harper calling on the Christian god to do the same.

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For a PM to ask Allah's blessing, he would have to be a Muslim. The chances of that happening are slim and none. Even if it did, I bet he would observe the tradition of the country he's in.
The traditions of the country he is in include the freedom the believe in a religion of his choosing so there should be absolutely nothing wrong with him saying such a thing. However, I am sure there would be many people who would be up in arms over such a comment. That is why I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise Harper for making statements that clearly favour one religion over another. If you agree that there is nothing wrong with a Muslim PM calling on Allah to bless the country then I will agree there is nothing wrong with Harper calling on the Christian god to do the same.

Okay, works for me.

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I don't have a religious chip on my shoulder - I just believe it should be kept as far away from politics as possible.

Oddman in regards to Harper and his "God Bless Canada" you're the odd ball.

Poll respondents give blessing to Harper's 'God bless Canada'

Even our Constitution starts out with the words "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God..."

or how about the national anthem?

.....God keep our land glorious and free!

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

And we always seem to ask for God to bless our country on Remembrance Day.

And I agree with the others,you do have a religiious chip on your shoulder along with that big 2x4 chip for the conservatives.

Here's another quote from Harper during the 2004 campaign - "We don't listen to polls."

Yeah, yeah...lots of god references...nice work...I had no idea. :unsure:

My so-called chip for the Cons is based on our completely different view of how Canada should be governed/led.

Or maybe you would like to tell me about your feelings topwards the NDP and we'll see who wears the bigger chip.

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Even though the following acticle is about Muslims and Multi-culturalism,but it does make mention about Christianity and Canada.

Sociology prof warns multiculturalism 'creates nations within a nation'

"This country," added Kanwar, "is a democracy and democracy is founded on Christian principles.

"Canada is -- like it or not, take it or leave it -- a country founded on Christian principles where the vast majority of citizens are Christians," said Kanwar.

"Yes, there's separation of church and state but even that was a principle founded by Christians and Christianity.

"If Muslims, or anyone else, doesn't like living in a land filled with Christians or in a democracy they should get the hell out."

The last quote says it all.

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Using the phrase 'God Bless Canada' in speeches made in the role of Prime Minister is not appropriate because it is insulting to many Canadians who do not believe in his brand of Christianity.

In all seriousness, anyone who feels insulted by that should leave Canada. I would be more than willing to help pay their way to some more suitable home.

In all seriousness, that statement is ridiculous. Most people who call themselves Christians are for the most part non-practising. Just do a poll and see how many Canadians actually attend chruch and you'll see it is far below 50%.

People can hold to religious beliefs without attending church, and many do.

Another fundamental error in your reasoning is this: Harper does not embody Christianity. He is apparently one of the most foul-mouthed politicians in the land.

Someone did a study, did they? You have some cite? And since when did Christianity mean you can't curse now and then?

Oh, I would like do move to Honduras...if you would please deposit the airfare into my paypal account I would appreciate it.

Presuming you agree to give up your Canadian citizenship and all rights of returning, then sure, I'll support the government sponsoring you to the Honduras - with its 28% unemployment rate and massive poverty. Have fun.

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Listen carefully - saying "Hey, I am Christian" while not embodying any Christian values (whatever that may be) mean s you are not Christian.

So you've decided Harper doesn't embody any Christian values while at the same time openly saying you don't know what they are..... :rolleyes:

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My so-called chip for the Cons is based on our completely different view of how Canada should be governed/led.

Or maybe you would like to tell me about your feelings topwards the NDP and we'll see who wears the bigger chip.

The NDP are a bunch of socialists who think the world is unfair because an illiterate third world immigrant who just figured out how to work a flush toilet last week isn't making as much money as me.

And who want to resolve that unfairness by taking away my money and giving it to the "less fortunate"

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For a PM to ask Allah's blessing, he would have to be a Muslim. The chances of that happening are slim and none. Even if it did, I bet he would observe the tradition of the country he's in.
The traditions of the country he is in include the freedom the believe in a religion of his choosing so there should be absolutely nothing wrong with him saying such a thing. However, I am sure there would be many people who would be up in arms over such a comment. That is why I think it is perfectly reasonable to criticise Harper for making statements that clearly favour one religion over another. If you agree that there is nothing wrong with a Muslim PM calling on Allah to bless the country then I will agree there is nothing wrong with Harper calling on the Christian god to do the same.

Allah = God in Arabic.

So the only thing which seems to indicate Harper was "favouring" Christianity is that he dared to voice his blessing in English instead of Arabic.

BTW, Jews say "God bless you" too.

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So the only thing which seems to indicate Harper was "favouring" Christianity is that he dared to voice his blessing in English instead of Arabic.
The word 'Allah' is an English word with an English meaning in the same way 'Tsunami' is an English word. The phrase 'God bless Canada' is a clear reference to Christianity since it would only be uttered by a Christian or by a politician pandering to Christians.

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Listen carefully - saying "Hey, I am Christian" while not embodying any Christian values (whatever that may be) mean s you are not Christian.

So you've decided Harper doesn't embody any Christian values while at the same time openly saying you don't know what they are..... :rolleyes:

SOrry, I forgot to press the sarcasm button. But I was raised in the Roman Ctholic School system for 12 years, as well as have been baptized, had first comunion, confession and have been confirmed.

It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

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It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Understandable.

Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else.

Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat. :)

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So the only thing which seems to indicate Harper was "favouring" Christianity is that he dared to voice his blessing in English instead of Arabic.
The word 'Allah' is an English word with an English meaning in the same way 'Tsunami' is an English word.

I'm sure the Arabic world would be confused at your claim of Allah as an English word.

The phrase 'God bless Canada' is a clear reference to Christianity since it would only be uttered by a Christian or by a politician pandering to Christians.

Or Jews.

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Listen carefully - saying "Hey, I am Christian" while not embodying any Christian values (whatever that may be) mean s you are not Christian.

So you've decided Harper doesn't embody any Christian values while at the same time openly saying you don't know what they are..... :rolleyes:

SOrry, I forgot to press the sarcasm button. But I was raised in the Roman Ctholic School system for 12 years, as well as have been baptized, had first comunion, confession and have been confirmed.

It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Christianity is whatever you make of it, and your experience will vary depending on which branch you are raised in, and what the temperament of your priest or preacher is.

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It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Understandable.

Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else.

Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat. :)

Very well said. And I don't loathe people who identify themselves as Christian either. I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

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The phrase 'God bless Canada' is a clear reference to Christianity since it would only be uttered by a Christian or by a politician pandering to Christians.
Or Jews.
Ostentatious displays of piety are not something typical Jewish person does or expects from others. Harper uses those words because he is trying to send a message to Christians that 'one of them' is running the country. If his intention was to make a truly inclusive statement then he would have chose a more ambiguous phrase without a historical connection to Christianity.

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I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Christ wasn't judgemental? Eh? Who was it drove the money changers from the temple?

And who is supposed to be the final judge of us all?

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It is due to my experience inside Christianity why I now feel I am better off without it.

Understandable.

Just like an ex-smoker tends to be very anti-smoking more than anyone else.

Or someone who decided to become vegetarian....and now can't stand even the smell of meat. :)

Very well said. And I don't loathe people who identify themselves as Christian either. I do feel that some people just say they are Christian but do not act very Christ-like. Christ was not judgemental, he was forgiving. Being anti-gay is not a forgiving way of living one's life.

Jesus was very judging when he cast sellers out of the temple. Didn't he also have strong judgements on the Pharisees and the chief Priests? There is a place to say something is wrong, just as you have stated it's wrong to claim to be a Christian and then live without morals.

As for anti-gay, I don't know how you view the Bible, but in Romans 1:27 it clearly states homosexuality is an error. For believers of the Bible to state this does not make them judgemental.

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The phrase 'God bless Canada' is a clear reference to Christianity since it would only be uttered by a Christian or by a politician pandering to Christians.
Or Jews.
Ostentatious displays of piety are not something typical Jewish person does or expects from others. Harper uses those words because he is trying to send a message to Christians that 'one of them' is running the country. If his intention was to make a truly inclusive statement then he would have chose a more ambiguous phrase without a historical connection to Christianity.

You are very suspicious of Harper. Maybe he's saying it to signal his secret alliance with Dubya who says God all the time. Maybe he's saying it to tick off the Liberals who wouldn't mention God if their Catholic lives depended on it. Maybe he just wants God to bless Canada.

Tell me this: why would a politician say something like this when he knows he could alienate voters, when he has a minority government? It doesn't add up.

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