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God, I spat my coffee when I watched this. Poor Bush, I almost feel sorry for the guy.

click on picture to play video...

BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.

PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.

BUSH: Just wait!

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Brilliant!

Geri Atric, thanks for that link.

1. Typical Putin repartee. (I figure Yeltsin had him pegged on this, and on a few other points too.)

2. Bush Jnr. has never faced a real opposition.

3. Substance? Bush Jnr is right to do what he's doing (Putin knows that) but Bush Jnr is going about this in a typically naive North American way - North American liberals take note.

4. Maybe this means Russia's back. Who else is going to stand up to the Americans? The Chinese?

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Bush got him back.
I somehow doubt that.

For a preppie, Yalie Bush Jnr to say "Just wait" is an admission of abject defeat. No preppie says that. (It appears that, during the Cold War, the LGY/MGIMO were better forming grounds than US prep/Ivy schools. Nixon of course knew that.)

BTW, Bush Jnr and Putin were born about the same time, they are about the same age. They are products of two societies.

----

Let's get this subtext straight.

Speaking about terrorists, Putin famously said that he'd "waste them in the shithouse". In two months, Russia did in Grozny what a Lebanese Civil War took 17 years to do in Beirut.

The subtext here is that Putin is saying, faced with anarchy in a rough country (Iraq, many other places in the world including Russia in the 1990s), security is more important than free speech.

Putin's saying to Bush Jnr: "You Americans talk tough but you're pussies. You silly Americans just don't get it."

Putin is more red than most red state voters.

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Dear August1991,

For a preppie, Yalie Bush Jnr to say "Just wait" is an admission of abject defeat.
It reminded me of an incident on the TV news some years ago, when Michael Eisner (Former head of Disney) was introducing their new NHL franchise, (based on a children's movie) the 'Mighty Ducks'. When he dropped the new name, complete with a cheesy plastic duck call, everybody in the media room just laughed. Eiser quickly added "This will work!" a couple of times, but people were still sniggering.

I would say that Putin rightly sees the Americans as being fixated on the 'glam of marketing', and not the cold hard realities of manufacturing.

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1/ God, I spat my coffee when I watched this. Poor Bush, I almost feel sorry for the guy.

click on picture to play video...

2/ BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.

3/ PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.

BUSH: Just wait!

- gerryhatrick ... 1) No, you don't feel sorry for Bush. In truth, you are well know to be the biggest left wing whackjob on this board (and that is saying a lot) when it comes to having a pathological hatred for Bush and for Harper over here, a nonstop penchant for twisting and turning and distorting and misquoting everything Bush and Harper do and say to make them look as bad as you possibly can, and an eagerness to troll 24/7 on every far left mindlessly partisan blog in cyberspace to find things you can use on your nutty crusade against Bush, Harper and anyone else not to the left of Che Guevera's ghost.

2) WHAT - EXACTLY - DO YOU FIND SO OFFENSIVE WITH BUSH'S QUOTE? IS IT:

1/ You strongly favour socialist dictatorships like the old USSR and are still mouring its passing and resent Bush's effrontery in criticising even the new Russia?

2/ You think that the leader of the world's only hyperpower should be "seen and not heard" and keep his mouth and his nose out of the affairs of the rest of the world and allow your corrupt mugs, thugs and slugs in the UN to dictate the state of world affairs which means usually just ignoring the ruthless tyrannts who repress, ensalve, impoverish, torture and kill their countrymen and neighbours by the hundreds of thousands as your good pal Saddam Insane used to do in Iraq?

3/ You contend that Bush is wrong to be the strongest ever US presidential advocate of fundamental democratic change including freedom of the press and of religion and other manifestations of open government and open economies and should keep silent on what most discerning people see as some disquieting and disturbing backsliding by Putin in Russia concerning democratic freedoms?

4/ You are anti-US and Bush, pro-Russia and Putin, and are opposed to freedom of the press and freedom of relgion and even opposed to those who favour such freedoms?

3} WHAT - EXACTLY - DID YOU LIKE SO MUCH ABOUT PUTIN'S QUOTE?

1/ That instead of actually addressing Bush's well founded concerns about new restrictions in Russia on freedom of speech, assembly, the press and religion - thereby threatening the country's still emerging democracy - he chose to take a cheap and superficial shot at the even newer and more fragile democracy in Iraq?

2/ That his cheap and superficial shot at Iraqi democracy was especially hilarious to you in that if it were up to Putin and his ilk and useful idiots like you there would be no democracy at all in Iraq and Saddam Insane would continue to be ensalving, impoverishing, torturing and killing Iraqis by the thousands?

You know, except for Biblio Bublia (sic) who was known as Rudyard The Insane on prior forums and is quite clearly insane as well as someone whose nonstop libelling, stalking, harrassing and outing of others on former boards got him suspended from said boards for life, you are the most annoying character on this board due to your obvious hard left bias and your equally obvious animus and bile for Bush, Harper and all of those not on the left. It will probably get me banned from here for saying so but, frankly, I could care less if Greg The Legend of Lethbridge wants to act like an ass again and ban me instead of nutters like you and Biblio.

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God, I spat my coffee when I watched this. Poor Bush, I almost feel sorry for the guy.

click on picture to play video...

BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.

PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.

BUSH: Just wait!

The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

It is not the democracy in Iraq which is causing the chaos in that country, nor would the lack of democracy affect the chaos.

Likewise Putin's dictatorship has not served to enrich anyone but his friends and cronies, and to discourage any foreign investment in Russia. It certainly has done nothing to curb the massive corruption in that country.

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

People say the US is a dictatorship now. After all, with a signing statement Bush can excuse himself from any law. I would not make that claim, because I think it is partisan nonsense.

On what do you base your assurtion that Russia is now a dictatorship as of several years ago?

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It will probably get me banned from here for saying so ....

If it was up to me I'd head-butt you out of here in a Mississauga minute.

Greg The Legend of Lethbridge may take a little longer, but when he does, here's something to pass the time with.

http://www.addictinggames.com/zidaneheadbuttgame.html

Speaking of Zidane .... I thought of you when Pete McMartin put out his "top ten" of what Materazzi might have said to Zidane in the Vancouver Sun.

"Teddy Ballpark would have done a MUCH funnier top ten", I thought. Honest.

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Dear August1991,
For a preppie, Yalie Bush Jnr to say "Just wait" is an admission of abject defeat.
It reminded me of an incident on the TV news some years ago, when Michael Eisner (Former head of Disney) was introducing their new NHL franchise, (based on a children's movie) the 'Mighty Ducks'. When he dropped the new name, complete with a cheesy plastic duck call, everybody in the media room just laughed. Eiser quickly added "This will work!" a couple of times, but people were still sniggering.

I would say that Putin rightly sees the Americans as being fixated on the 'glam of marketing', and not the cold hard realities of manufacturing.

Firstly: I was waiting for the other shoe to drop with your Eisner anecdote, but it never came. Does anyone take issue with the silly name anymore? I realize that it was an unbelievable joke in the first season they played, but I haven't heard anyone making fun of it lately. Has Eisner been vindicated by history? If so, what is the point you're trying to make?

Secondly: the American economy is still the world's greatest manufacturing powerhouse, even as they outsource as much manufacturing as they can get away with. If Put "rightly sees" that Americans are more into marketing than they are manufacturing it's because he's still got some of that old Soviet pixie dust in his eyes.

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

It is not the democracy in Iraq which is causing the chaos in that country, nor would the lack of democracy affect the chaos.

Likewise Putin's dictatorship has not served to enrich anyone but his friends and cronies, and to discourage any foreign investment in Russia. It certainly has done nothing to curb the massive corruption in that country.

Argus, as usual, you hide your nonsense behind a veil of cynical common sense.

The critical point is that it is not possible to have a civilized, democratic society if there is anarchy and violence. I'd say that Putin has a far better understanding of what this means in practical terms than Bush.

If democracy means that government represents generally the will of the people, then Putin's Russia is far more democratic than Yeltsin's or indeed anything of the Soviet era.

Bush chose a dumb way to make his point and Putin, rather than politely let it slide, pointed out how bone-headed Bush's remark was.

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Dear BHS,

I realize that it was an unbelievable joke in the first season they played, but I haven't heard anyone making fun of it lately. Has Eisner been vindicated by history? If so, what is the point you're trying to make?
Forgive me, I was rather unclear. They both comitted themselves to things that don't seem all that well thought out, and to some degree, both looked and responded like dolts when someone pointed out thier folly. Mind you, both Eisner and Bush will be gone while what they created may live on, perhaps in spite of them.
Secondly: the American economy is still the world's greatest manufacturing powerhouse, even as they outsource as much manufacturing as they can get away with. If Put "rightly sees" that Americans are more into marketing than they are manufacturing it's because he's still got some of that old Soviet pixie dust in his eyes.
Again, I was unclear. What I meant by 'manufacturing' is getting the job done, as I think August1991 understands...
The critical point is that it is not possible to have a civilized, democratic society if there is anarchy and violence. I'd say that Putin has a far better understanding of what this means in practical terms than Bush.
The US certainly can play dirty pool, but they do tend to think that 'image' is tantamount, where Putin would have simply got the job done and then sent flowers to their widows.
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4. Maybe this means Russia's back. Who else is going to stand up to the Americans? The Chinese?
I think they are back. But I wonder in what manner? Should anybody worry?

Are they going to be a threat to world freedom or simply a commercial competitor?

I think Putin deserves a lot of credit. Putin has to return to Russia. His comeback was a gentle way of NOT letting Bush's statement slide and saving face himself when he returns to Russia. Bush should have known better.

Anybody who has spoken to a Russian (or any immigrant for that matter) would have known better.

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

People say the US is a dictatorship now.

Morons - not "people".

On what do you base your assurtion that Russia is now a dictatorship as of several years ago?

Gee, on the fact that anyone who opposes Putin politically finds themselves up on spurious charges which are pushed through his corrupt courts? That the legislatures are rubber stamps filled with his croneys? That the media is now almost if not completely under government control?

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Bush got him back.
I somehow doubt that.

For a preppie, Yalie Bush Jnr to say "Just wait" is an admission of abject defeat. No preppie says that. (It appears that, during the Cold War, the LGY/MGIMO were better forming grounds than US prep/Ivy schools. Nixon of course knew that.)

Good quip by Putin but holy over analysis there August.

Putin is more red than most red state voters.

What a foolish comparison. That's along the lines of saying hmm Castro is more red than red state voters.

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

People say the US is a dictatorship now. After all, with a signing statement Bush can excuse himself from any law. I would not make that claim, because I think it is partisan nonsense.

On what do you base your assurtion that Russia is now a dictatorship as of several years ago?

Who says the US is a dictatorship? Please, provide names.

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It will probably get me banned from here for saying so but, frankly, I could care less if Greg The Legend of Lethbridge wants to act like an ass again and ban me instead of nutters like you and Biblio.

Your wish is my command. Goodbye Teddy, you are now banned from these forums.

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It will probably get me banned from here for saying so but, frankly, I could care less if Greg The Legend of Lethbridge wants to act like an ass again and ban me instead of nutters like you and Biblio.

Your wish is my command. Goodbye Teddy, you are now banned from these forums.

Dear sir!

Teddy didn't "wish" to be banned.

And what he said about me doesn't bother me a bit. As Oscar Wilde always says: ... "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

SO THANKS TEDDY BALLGAME, WHEREVER YOU ARE!

And ANY good rightwinger will agree with Teddy's assessment of Geriatric.

I truly wish you'd reconsider.

Thanks in advance!

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1/ God, I spat my coffee when I watched this. Poor Bush, I almost feel sorry for the guy.

click on picture to play video...

2/ BUSH: I talked about my desire to promote institutional change in parts of the world, like Iraq, where there’s a free press and free religion. And I told him that a lot of people in our country would hope that Russia will do the same thing. I fully understand, however, that there will be a Russian-style democracy.

3/ PUTIN: We certainly would not want to have same kind of democracy as they have in Iraq, quite honestly.

BUSH: Just wait!

- gerryhatrick ... 1) No, you don't feel sorry for Bush. In truth, you are well know to be the biggest left wing whackjob on this board (and that is saying a lot) when it comes to having a pathological hatred for Bush and for Harper over here, a nonstop penchant for twisting and turning and distorting and misquoting everything Bush and Harper do and say to make them look as bad as you possibly can, and an eagerness to troll 24/7 on every far left mindlessly partisan blog in cyberspace to find things you can use on your nutty crusade against Bush, Harper and anyone else not to the left of Che Guevera's ghost.

2) WHAT - EXACTLY - DO YOU FIND SO OFFENSIVE WITH BUSH'S QUOTE? IS IT:

1/ You strongly favour socialist dictatorships like the old USSR and are still mouring its passing and resent Bush's effrontery in criticising even the new Russia?

2/ You think that the leader of the world's only hyperpower should be "seen and not heard" and keep his mouth and his nose out of the affairs of the rest of the world and allow your corrupt mugs, thugs and slugs in the UN to dictate the state of world affairs which means usually just ignoring the ruthless tyrannts who repress, ensalve, impoverish, torture and kill their countrymen and neighbours by the hundreds of thousands as your good pal Saddam Insane used to do in Iraq?

3/ You contend that Bush is wrong to be the strongest ever US presidential advocate of fundamental democratic change including freedom of the press and of religion and other manifestations of open government and open economies and should keep silent on what most discerning people see as some disquieting and disturbing backsliding by Putin in Russia concerning democratic freedoms?

4/ You are anti-US and Bush, pro-Russia and Putin, and are opposed to freedom of the press and freedom of relgion and even opposed to those who favour such freedoms?

3} WHAT - EXACTLY - DID YOU LIKE SO MUCH ABOUT PUTIN'S QUOTE?

1/ That instead of actually addressing Bush's well founded concerns about new restrictions in Russia on freedom of speech, assembly, the press and religion - thereby threatening the country's still emerging democracy - he chose to take a cheap and superficial shot at the even newer and more fragile democracy in Iraq?

2/ That his cheap and superficial shot at Iraqi democracy was especially hilarious to you in that if it were up to Putin and his ilk and useful idiots like you there would be no democracy at all in Iraq and Saddam Insane would continue to be ensalving, impoverishing, torturing and killing Iraqis by the thousands?

You know, except for Biblio Bublia (sic) who was known as Rudyard The Insane on prior forums and is quite clearly insane as well as someone whose nonstop libelling, stalking, harrassing and outing of others on former boards got him suspended from said boards for life, you are the most annoying character on this board due to your obvious hard left bias and your equally obvious animus and bile for Bush, Harper and all of those not on the left. It will probably get me banned from here for saying so but, frankly, I could care less if Greg The Legend of Lethbridge wants to act like an ass again and ban me instead of nutters like you and Biblio.

Teddy you sound a tad extreme and quick to label people. The fact is Bush said something very stupid and Putin had a right to say what he did.

It is the utmost idiocy for Bush to be lecturing Putin on democracy when his mission in Iraq has completely and utterly failed.

You can pretend all you want with your need little definitions of left and right and democracy and leftists, but the fact is Iraq has never been democratic and will never be democratic. Iraq is a classic case of imperialism gone wrong. The Americans are no different then hundreds of imperial powers before them who thought they could mark into countries with conventional armies and simply impose their lifestyle and institutions.

The American invasion of Iraq was dommed for obvious reasons;

1-you can not leave a conventional army on the ground as a police force-they are sitting ducks for terrorism and guerilla attacks making them helpless;

2-you can not impose cultural concepts on people who think completely differently-they will simply not understand you and revert back to their behaviour the first chance they get;

3-the Americans blew up Iraq's infrastructure, they obliterated its water, electricity, sewage, roads, schools, hospitals- after sending its people back to the stone age, they then send in contractors from the United States to rebuild and those contractors will not hire Iraqis and so no Iraqi even if he wants to can help rebuild his nation-this is about setting up a state completely dependent on American contractors;

4-as a result of 1,2 and 3, the United States has trigged off a civil war that a conventional army can not win and condemns Iraqis to perpetual violence - this is not about winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis, this is about American soldiers trapped in a quagmire or war of attrition and as each day ends, more and more Americans are killed, injured and learn to hate Iraqis to the point of no return.

So you can pretend Iraq is democratic and that Bush can lecture Putin but the fact is Iraq is a disaster and any simpleton can see that. Its another Vietnam fiasco only the difference here is there is oil.

Putin can afford to laugh. Bush has made a point of lecturing him on democracy. Putin is not some idiot who needs lectures. He is a cold blooed, KGB trained assassin who is skilled in several martial arts, and has

military, political risk, and economic training.

This is not some dummy. This is a highly intelligent, manipulative, cunning, powerful fearless man who mocks Bush because Bush is an idiot and an embarassement and a moron and a simpleton.

I can assure you Putin probably would have more respect for someone who has been trained to kill and fight not some rich boy drunk cocaine addicted putz who paid for his MBA from Yale and used his status to avoid going to war or take on any kind of real job before he became President.

The only democracy in the Middle East is Israel and it is alone in this world.

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

People say the US is a dictatorship now. After all, with a signing statement Bush can excuse himself from any law. I would not make that claim, because I think it is partisan nonsense.

On what do you base your assurtion that Russia is now a dictatorship as of several years ago?

Who says the US is a dictatorship? Please, provide names.

Why-you going to pick them up and ship them off to Guantanamo Bay?

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The sad part is that Putin DOESN'T have the kind of democracy they have in Iraq. In point of fact, Russia ceased being any kind of democracy several years back. It's now a dictatorship again, and getting worse all the time.

People say the US is a dictatorship now. After all, with a signing statement Bush can excuse himself from any law. I would not make that claim, because I think it is partisan nonsense.

On what do you base your assurtion that Russia is now a dictatorship as of several years ago?

Who says the US is a dictatorship? Please, provide names.

Why-you going to pick them up and ship them off to Guantanamo Bay?

1.) I don't agree with keeping people in GITMO, I think after we interrogated them, they should have been shot or hung for being non-uniformed combatants (just like they did in WWI and WWII). GITMO is an expense I don't think is needed.

2.) I asked b/c there are no sane people who think or has said that the US is a dictatorship. Basically, I think his post was full of sh*t and I felt like calling him on it. Since I haven't noticed any names or links put forth, looks like I was right.

Do you have anymore moronic pseudo-question or is that it for now?

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1.) I don't agree with keeping people in GITMO, I think after we interrogated them, they should have been shot or hung for being non-uniformed combatants (just like they did in WWI and WWII). GITMO is an expense I don't think is needed.

DIGGING INTO GUANTANAMO:

To summarize then: According to the National Journal's research, upwards of half of all prisoners at Guantanamo weren't captured on the battlefield. Rather, they came into our custody by way of third parties "who had their own motivations for turning people in, including paybacks and payoffs." Many — perhaps most — of the men rounded up in these sweeps have no connection to al-Qaeda or the Taliban, and the evidence against them is often weak, sometimes nonexistent, and all too frequently known to be fabricated. And yet they remain in prison.

Kidnapping and deporting Civilians to Guantanamo

Some 660 people (Spring 2004) from 42 countries, are currently being held in the Camp Delta concentration camp in Guantanamo. While US officials claim that they are "enemy combatants" arrested in Afghanistan, a large number of the civilian detainees have never set foot in Afghanistan. They were kidnapped in several foreign countries including Pakistan, Bosnia and Gambia on the West Coast of Africa, and taken to the US military base in Bagram, Afghanistan, before being transported to Guantanamo.
In a bitter irony, it was to this Northern region of Pakistan that at least 4000 Al Qaeda fighters were airlifted in the first place, back in November 2001, on the orders of Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And these Al Qaeda units were also being supplied by Pakistan's ISI. (UPI, 1 November 2001)

Check your facts before spouting off. Shooting innocent people is a great idea!

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1.) I don't agree with keeping people in GITMO, I think after we interrogated them, they should have been shot or hung for being non-uniformed combatants (just like they did in WWI and WWII). GITMO is an expense I don't think is needed.

DIGGING INTO GUANTANAMO:

To summarize then: According to the National Journal's research, upwards of half of all prisoners at Guantanamo weren't captured on the battlefield. Rather, they came into our custody by way of third parties "who had their own motivations for turning people in, including paybacks and payoffs." Many — perhaps most — of the men rounded up in these sweeps have no connection to al-Qaeda or the Taliban, and the evidence against them is often weak, sometimes nonexistent, and all too frequently known to be fabricated. And yet they remain in prison.

Kidnapping and deporting Civilians to Guantanamo

Some 660 people (Spring 2004) from 42 countries, are currently being held in the Camp Delta concentration camp in Guantanamo. While US officials claim that they are "enemy combatants" arrested in Afghanistan, a large number of the civilian detainees have never set foot in Afghanistan. They were kidnapped in several foreign countries including Pakistan, Bosnia and Gambia on the West Coast of Africa, and taken to the US military base in Bagram, Afghanistan, before being transported to Guantanamo.
In a bitter irony, it was to this Northern region of Pakistan that at least 4000 Al Qaeda fighters were airlifted in the first place, back in November 2001, on the orders of Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And these Al Qaeda units were also being supplied by Pakistan's ISI. (UPI, 1 November 2001)

Check your facts before spouting off. Shooting innocent people is a great idea!

hhahaha - could you find weaker sources to back up your "facts"?

Innocent my foot (is that better?)! They haven't been given a "trial” but they have been through several layers of military tribunals (as done in previous wars) and guess what they found?!? Guilty, obviously some more than others but still far from a gang off innocent farms and what not. Face it, these people are not nice and were not just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Plus, we’re not in the business of giving people a free ride on our $, that’s what socialist in Europe and Canada do :lol: .

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