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Criticizing the Government's "Slow" Response to Lebanese

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Yesterday, mounting criticisms from Lebanese-Canadians had a journalist correspondent to Lebanon defending the government by saying more or less, "give credit where credit is due. We have not experienced this massive evacuation in 40 years."

A couple of days ago, the news claimed there are 25,000 Canadians in Lebanon. Today, they're saying there are about 40,000! That many?

And today, complaints and criticisms still continue from THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN RESCUED.

Some complained that "it was too hot aboard the ship!"

I understand the panic and anxiety of those who are anxious....thus heated words and passionate accusations were said. But to complain about the heat??? No aircon?

Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Get real!

My empathy for these people is running thin when I hear of these nit-picking!

I hope these Canadians spends most of their dollars here in Canada....since it is Canada who is shouldering these expenses for the trips to volatile countries!

I'm angry...so consider this a rant! :angry:

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Guest Warwick Green
Yesterday, mounting criticisms from Lebanese-Canadians had a journalist correspondent to Lebanon defending the government by saying more or less, "give credit where credit is due. We have not experienced this massive evacuation in 40 years."

A couple of days ago, the news claimed there are 25,000 Canadians in Lebanon. Today, they're saying there are about 40,000! That many?

And today, complaints and criticisms still continue from THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN RESCUED.

Some complained that "it was too hot aboard the ship!"

I understand the panic and anxiety of those who are anxious....thus heated words and passionate accusations were said. But to complain about the heat??? No aircon?

Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Get real!

My empathy for these people is running thin when I hear of these nit-picking!

I hope these Canadians spends most of their dollars here in Canada....since it is Canada who is shouldering these expenses for the trips to volatile countries!

I'm angry...so consider this a rant! :angry:

Hard to be sympathetic with the guy that arrived safely in Cyprus and complained about a lack of air conditioning on board. Who knows if we could have done better -- there will be plenty of opportunity to second-guess that later. Right now people should be patient and cut down on the griping. And cut out the bellyaching about Canada's position on the war. Complain about that after they get back home.

Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Nobody forced them to go to the Mid-East. The government owes them nothing.

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Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Get real!

This is the problem if we make rescue a Canadian government policy.

Once the government falls short, people have a sense of entitlement and the government is held responsible for compensation.

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Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Get real!

This is the problem if we make rescue a Canadian government policy.

Once the government falls short, people have a sense of entitlement and the government is held responsible for compensation.

Too many years with a Liberal government.

Who by the way couldn't help Tsunami victims for over a week because there weren't any planes that could make the trip.

We had to Rent-A-Plane in order to help.

Canada was a joke then when other countries were already there within days.

Now the left and it's media is bitchin' about lack of resue by Harper.

They should thank the Liberals for what we have today.

"I'm entitled to my entitlement!" as Dingwall would say.

Maybe Chretien's two jets he purchased from Bombardier for 100 million could be turned into rescue planes.

Wednesday, April 17, 2002

The Prime Minister's impulse purchase of two Challenger jets, at a cost of $100-million, on the last working day of the fiscal year, bears all the characteristic marks of scandal a la Chretien -- namely, the combination of several scandals, each worthy of public outrage in itself, into one big, steaming heap of disgrace.

The decision was made without the approval of Cabinet, over the objections of senior officials in three departments, and rushed through Public Works in a single day. It was announced on a Friday, just before the Easter long weekend, leaving Parliament and the media out of the loop as well. No public tender was issued. The government appears to have paid far too much for the jets, which may not have been necessary at all. The money went to Bombardier, the Quebec-based aerospace firm, a frequent recipient of public funds and a regular and generous donor to the Liberal Party of Canada.

Meanwhile, the Canadian Forces are still flying around in 40-year-old Sea Kings, eight years after the Liberals cancelled the previous government's order of new helicopters and nine years after the expenditure of $2.5-million to refurbish a Conservative prime minister's Airbus caused such histrionics on the then-Opposition Liberal benches. That jet, by the way, is still in the government's possession, but sits idle, owing to Mr. Chretien's unwillingness to be associated with such extravagance.

So let's see: That's abuse of process, contempt of Parliament, grievous waste, pork- barreling, multiple counts of aggravated policy failure, and rank hypocrisy, all driven by the Prime Minister's droit de seigneur philosophy of public finance and carried off with utter unconcern for public appearances -- or rather, a deliberate flouting of these, the better to undercut any suggestion that we might expect better of those we put in public office. In other words, precisely the pattern observed in every previous Liberal scandal, from APEC to Somalia to the Krever blood inquiry, from Pearson airport to Canada Lands to the Export Development Corp., from HRDC to TJF to CIDA, from Jane Stewart to Alfonso Gagliano, from here to Shawinigan.

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Yesterday, mounting criticisms from Lebanese-Canadians had a journalist correspondent to Lebanon defending the government by saying more or less, "give credit where credit is due. We have not experienced this massive evacuation in 40 years."

A couple of days ago, the news claimed there are 25,000 Canadians in Lebanon. Today, they're saying there are about 40,000! That many?

And today, complaints and criticisms still continue from THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN RESCUED.

Some complained that "it was too hot aboard the ship!"

I understand the panic and anxiety of those who are anxious....thus heated words and passionate accusations were said. But to complain about the heat??? No aircon?

Now some are demanding monetary aid!

Get real!

My empathy for these people is running thin when I hear of these nit-picking!

I hope these Canadians spends most of their dollars here in Canada....since it is Canada who is shouldering these expenses for the trips to volatile countries!

I'm angry...so consider this a rant! :angry:

Those people went through a pretty traumatic experience. They waited in masses while officials tried to call families in alphabetical order. They were then packed in like sardines into a brutally hot boat without adequate water. I'm not sure how long the ride is from Lebanon to Cyprus but it’s long...anyway, by the time it arrived people were vomiting and passing out from heat exhausting.

I'm not defending the "nit-picking" but I can somewhat sympathize with them. When people have been so uncomfortable for so long and feel like crap they often say things they don't really mean. Immediately after getting off the boat one woman said "If I knew what the evacuation would be like I'd have stayed in Lebanon". I'm pretty sure that after she was able to cool down, have a drink of water and reflect on the entire situation she would not have made the same statement...hell I get angry and bash the government every time I wait in a neverending line to access any government services (e.g. passport, drivers license or health card renewal) and I’m in an air-conditioned building. :)

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There is no scandal. Canada has 50,0000 citizens within Lebanon unlike the other nations. To compare it to Sweden or the US, etc., is not fair. Planning for the evacuation of 50,000 is not like planning for the evacuation of 3,000. Canada will do its best and yes Lebanese/Canadians will suffer.

I appreciate Lebanese Canadians want to be like many Canadians, dual citizens. They want to enjoy the best Canada has to offer, but maintain their heritage and roots and visit Lebanon in the summer.

The problem here is in this day and age, it was obvious to anyone who cared to be honest about it, that Lebanon could not continue as a captive to Hezbollah.

Lebanese Canadians know they were taking a risk going back to a country where Hezbollah openly did what they wanted and walked around and flourished out in the open.

Is it realistic to think you can live in a country with no conflict when terrorists walk about in broad day-light extolling their desire to kill and wipe out Jews and broadcasting this every night on t.v.?

This is the tragic consequence of a nation to weak too flush itself of terroist murderers and hipporcritical countries like France trading and doing businesses wink wink nudge nudge with known terrorists and being fully aware Lebanese citizens in France finance Hezbollah.

For that matter the only scandal will be if it is revealed in Canada how many Lebanese Canadian citizens have been involved laundering money and financing Hezbollah.

It is a small minority of people of Lebanon but none-the-less the truth will eventually come out.

People should understand that terrorist organizations like Hezbollah or The Tiger Elam, or the IRA in its day all depended on citizens in safe countries to finance their operations.

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Des représentants d'une dizaine d'organismes libanais de Montréal ont vivement dénoncé aujourd'hui la position du gouvernement Harper face à la crise israélo-libanaise et sa lenteur à organiser l'évacuation des Libano-Canadiens pris au piège.

...

Par ailleurs, ils déplorent l'absence complète de contact du gouvernement fédéral avec la communauté libanaise canadienne pour soutenir le retour des évacués. En contrepartie, ils se disent touchés par les efforts faits par le gouvernement du Québec, avec qui une rencontre mercredi soir a permis d'amorcer les préparatifs d'acceuil des évacués qui arriveront au Québec.

Canoe

Montreal's Lebanese community blames the Harper government for being slow, for supporting Israel and for doing nothing to aid returning citizens once they get back to Canada. OTOH, they applaud the efforts of the Quebec government.

I linked this elesewhere:

«Le Hezbollah protégeait ma maison», dit-elle.

«Jusqu'à maintenant, le Hezbollah continue à défendre la terre, la roche, l'humain», explique pour sa part Hussein El-Akhras, l'oncle d'Ali et de Mayssoun, rencontré dans sa maison d'Outremont, où s'est retrouvée une partie de la famille après la conférence de presse. «Tout le monde là-bas vivait dans la sécurité grâce au Hezbollah.»

La Presse

The family of the eight Canadians killed in south Lebanon support Hizballah and criticize the attitude of the Harper government.

It seems different in English Canada:

What follows is a statement released jointly by six Canadian Lebanese organizations on Wednesday.

- -

We, the undersigned, representatives of the six Lebanese organizations listed below, extend our heartfelt gratitude to the Canadian government, represented by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Minister of Foreign Affairs Peter MacKay, for the correct, just and prompt positions they have taken with regard to Lebanon and the unfortunate military confrontations that are occurring on its soil as a result of the reckless hostile actions of Hezbollah. Those actions violate the will of the Lebanese people and the decisions and authority of the legitimate government of Lebanon.

National Post

----

It seems to me that now is not the time to be critical of the efforts of bureaucrats to organize safe passage. And why this sense of entitlement? Can't people on their own organize themselves?

There is also something unseemly when Lebanese organizations play one Canadian level of government against another. It is precisely this kind of subterfuge and intriguing that is at the heart of so many of Lebanon's problems.

It also bothers me that Canadian foreign policy may be dictated by the origins of Canadian citizens. That applies as much to one side as another. The Canadian government should be free to take a position in the best interests of all Canadians and one would hope, a position with some good principle involved.

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I will rant at my favourite target...the media.

They are just looking for an excuse to bash the current government. Given the way they've been treated by Harper, I suppose one can't blame them.

The problem is, rather than legitimately expose the government for blunders the media has spewed propaganda on this issue rather than reporting factual news.

CTV led its news last night with a 10-minute long diatribe about how pathetic the Canadian government response has been...repeating over and over how Canada only proffered one of the seven ships that it promised to its citizens...and then making a projection that at the rate they were going (260 people per day) it was going to be several weeks before all Canadians would be evacuated.

The real story, which was revealed some 10 minutes later in a passing mention in a subsequent story was that Canada had all 7 ships fully lined up...but the owner of 6 of them refused to take Canadian officials' word as proof that Israel was committing to guarantee safe passage...and he waited until he actually got word directly from an Israeli official before allowing his boats to sail into port in Lebanon.

So please, all of those who are desparately trying to bash the current government...how is it Harper et. al.'s fault that some ship owner was being over-cautious?

FTA

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Montreal's Lebanese community blames the Harper government for being slow, for supporting Israel and for doing nothing to aid returning citizens once they get back to Canada. OTOH, they applaud the efforts of the Quebec government.

Of course the Lebanese bash Harper, because Harper won't straddle the traditional line between sucking up to them and sucking up to the Jews. He's actually saying what we all know - that the Lebanese terrorists are at fault. BTW, just what help are we supposed to provide "returning citizens"? They should go home now. And if they don't live in Canada, that's tough, why did they come here?

The family of the eight Canadians killed in south Lebanon support Hizballah and criticize the attitude of the Harper government.

Gee, maybe if the family hadn't been such strong supporters of terrorism, along with their friends and neighbours, Israel wouldn't have had to attack.

It seems different in English Canada:

Indeed:

You don’t need me to remind you of the province’s unfortunate history of anti-Semitism, which I’m sorry to say hasn’t entirely disappeared. French-language media coverage of the current crisis is overwhelmingly one-sided, with countless pictures and stories about anxious Lebanese-Canadians and very little on Israeli civilians deliberately targeted by the terrorists as opposed to being accidentally hit by the Israeli military.

Quebec's Ugly Little Bias

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The embassy in Beirut has about two dozen staff. It's a fairly sleepy place unaccustomed to heavy workloads. We have little to do with Lebanon, little tourism except for the dual citizens, and no trade to speak of. Suddenly tens of thousands of people calling themselves Canadians are out front, pounding on the doors, calling on the phone, emailing, all screaming and yelling and gnashing their teeth. The government flew in another 90 staff from embassies in Europe but you can imagine the madhouse the place is.

A few hundred were supposed to show up for the first boat, Thousands showed up, pushing and shoving, cursing and bullying, women screaming and howling and waving babies dramatically in the air, and all claiming they had been called and told they would be on the first boat out, even though a suspiciously high number of them were healthy men. The Lebanese soldiers who were supposed to keep order sat in the shade and did nothing.

Then the boats don't show up because the owner is an idiot.

Those "citizens" rescued by the Americans, British and Australians are also bitching and moaning and complaining, as if they all expected to step onto a cruise ship the instant trouble started. Is it something about Lebanese or is it a sense of entitlement the "permanent residents" get from living in Lebanon with their Canadian passport held snugly as a safekeeping against bad times?

An evacuation of real Canadians would have gone better. There wouldn't have been all these people showing up lying about being promised passage on the first ship, and there wouldn't have been all the pushing, bullying, wailing and queu jumping.

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The embassy in Beirut has about two dozen staff. It's a fairly sleepy place unaccustomed to heavy workloads. We have little to do with Lebanon, little tourism except for the dual citizens, and no trade to speak of. Suddenly tens of thousands of people calling themselves Canadians are out front, pounding on the doors, calling on the phone, emailing, all screaming and yelling and gnashing their teeth. The government flew in another 90 staff from embassies in Europe but you can imagine the madhouse the place is.

A few hundred were supposed to show up for the first boat, Thousands showed up, pushing and shoving, cursing and bullying, women screaming and howling and waving babies dramatically in the air, and all claiming they had been called and told they would be on the first boat out, even though a suspiciously high number of them were healthy men. The Lebanese soldiers who were supposed to keep order sat in the shade and did nothing.

Then the boats don't show up because the owner is an idiot.

Those "citizens" rescued by the Americans, British and Australians are also bitching and moaning and complaining, as if they all expected to step onto a cruise ship the instant trouble started. Is it something about Lebanese or is it a sense of entitlement the "permanent residents" get from living in Lebanon with their Canadian passport held snugly as a safekeeping against bad times?

An evacuation of real Canadians would have gone better. There wouldn't have been all these people showing up lying about being promised passage on the first ship, and there wouldn't have been all the pushing, bullying, wailing and queu jumping.

You know what disgusts me most about you? You get more worked up about a woman complaining about the heat than babies getting blown to pieces by F-16s.

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They should stop complaining. At least they are being rescued at all.

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You know what disgusts me most about you? You get more worked up about a woman complaining about the heat than babies getting blown to pieces by F-16s.

Do link to the story with the F-16's blowing babies to pieces.

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You know what disgusts me most about you? You get more worked up about a woman complaining about the heat than babies getting blown to pieces by F-16s.

I try to discuss things in a rational manner. I've never been impressed by emotional snivelling.

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You know what disgusts me most about you? You get more worked up about a woman complaining about the heat than babies getting blown to pieces by F-16s.

I try to discuss things in a rational manner. I've never been impressed by emotional snivelling.

He reminds me of the peace protester who assaulted a friend of mine.

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You know what disgusts me most about you? You get more worked up about a woman complaining about the heat than babies getting blown to pieces by F-16s.

I try to discuss things in a rational manner. I've never been impressed by emotional snivelling.

He reminds me of the peace protester who assaulted a friend of mine.

Peace! Peace damn you! Or I'll kill you!!!

Actually, he has already admitted on another thread that he has been arrested because of his anti-Israeli views, presumably during demonstrations, presumably for commiting acts of violence.

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These rescued whiners should stop concentrating on their pathetic little selves and think about other civilians (both from Israel and Lebanon) still trapped in there who have to live with this and have nowhere else to go.

Instead of protesting and berating Harper, they should direct their pathetic little protests to hezbollah and demand what the UN had been demanding in order for peace to be re-installed: Return the soldiers! Cease bombing Israel!

But I agree with FTA Lawyer...it's the media! CBC is also having a field day magnifying this so-called "slow response."

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Btw, can someone please explain what kind of help do these evacuees who had already arrived in Canada want and are complaining that they are not getting?

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Honestly it disgusts me to here people critisizing the conditions of the rescue, I recently saw this on the news. A lady said she could say only one thing about being evacuated. And it wasn't I am alive thank you, it was just complaints, everybody had complaints, about how hot it was and crowded and the conditions of the bathrooms. Great, Here is what I'll do, I will get together with some friends, charter you a private jet to Lebanon and just sit you in a nice clean bathroom with some terrorists surrounding you. Then we will wait for a couple bombs to drop. After that you can describe to me the tempature, and conditiosn of the bathroom. Its very simple, what is a succesfull evacuation?...quick test...are you alive? If yes, it was a success. There are times when higher standards are neccasary but in situations of life and death, the only thing that is important is life. If the boat was too crowded get off and stay behind.

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Instead of protesting and berating Harper, they should direct their pathetic little protests to hezbollah and demand what the UN had been demanding in order for peace to be re-installed: Return the soldiers! Cease bombing Israel!

Giving back the kidnapped soldiers now isn't going to make a difference, nor should it. Hezbollah crossed the Rubicon and shattered the fragile status quo. Israel is not going to stop until Hezbollah is wiped out. Rather ironic when you think about it.

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Btw, can someone please explain what kind of help do these evacuees who had already arrived in Canada want and are complaining that they are not getting?

They want the government to compensate them for being morons.

Honestly, if I had been in Lebanon (or Israel)I would have gotten the hell out when Summer Rains began.

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Sadly the government is responsible for its citizens both inside and outside of the state. That said, there is an obligation to provide timely assistance when citizens are endangered. Given our present military force structure we are incapable of providing this basic requirement. Perhaps this will give some people pause to reconsider the horrific state of our nation.

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Sadly the government is responsible for its citizens both inside and outside of the state. That said, there is an obligation to provide timely assistance when citizens are endangered. Given our present military force structure we are incapable of providing this basic requirement. Perhaps this will give some people pause to reconsider the horrific state of our nation.

We do have a fairly modern navy though and those ships could have been enroute last week had the order been given. They are still in port in Halifax "on call."

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