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jdobbin

Afghanistan

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http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...2/soldiers.html

Two more Canadians killed there today in a suicide bombing.

I support the troops there but like a lot of Canadians, I'm getting a bit queasy about the idea that a good deal of the source of the insurgency is in Pakistan and we will never be able to root it out of there without Pakistan's support.

Does anyone know how fast the Afghanis are in getting their military and police up to snuff to secure their own country?

Edited by jdobbin

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http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...2/soldiers.html

Two more Canadians killed there today in a suicide bombing.

I support the troops there but like a lot of Canadians, I'm getting a bit queasy about the idea that a good deal of the source of the insurgency is in Pakistan and we will never be able to root it out of there without Pakistan's support.

Does anyone know how fast the Afghanis are in getting their military and police up to snuff to secure their own country?

The West cannot allow that area to become a "free-fire" zone. We need a presence in both countries, though both are likely ungovernable.

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The West cannot allow that area to become a "free-fire" zone. We need a presence in both countries, though both are likely ungovernable.

Presence for WHAT so Canadian troops in the meantime will be available as target practice and used as sacrificial lambs by murdering suicide bombers?

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The West cannot allow that area to become a "free-fire" zone. We need a presence in both countries, though both are likely ungovernable.

Presence for WHAT so Canadian troops in the meantime will be available as target practice and used as sacrificial lambs by murdering suicide bombers?

No, they should hit back, and hard, when used as "target practice". Can you imagine Israeli soldiers standing around as wet sacks of lard and being shot at?

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The West cannot allow that area to become a "free-fire" zone. We need a presence in both countries, though both are likely ungovernable.

It is Pakistan that I feel represents a destabilizing force on Afghanistan. That, and Afghanistan's grinding poverty, makes me fear that there might be no end in sight.

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I have to say that so far I am not satisfied with the efforts to provide the military with all the equipment it needs in Afghanistan. I know the govt just announced $15b in new spending, but none of those big tickets are going to help the men and women in Afghanistan. Delivery of those vehicles aircraft are at least 3 years away.

The government needs to get some equpiment NOW, to lease it if neccesary, or borrow it from the US or other NATO nations which have them in reserve. We need more mine-resistent vehicles, and most importantly we need helicopters to minimize the vulnerable convoys. They need to get some Chinooks delivered within months, not years. And it would be reaally nice to get some armed helicopters.

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...and most importantly we need helicopters to minimize the vulnerable convoys. They need to get some Chinooks delivered within months, not years. And it would be reaally nice to get some armed helicopters.

Come now, those Sea Kings can do the job. They'll drop bolts on the enemy.

Seriously, I hear they're excellent.

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I have to say that so far I am not satisfied with the efforts to provide the military with all the equipment it needs in Afghanistan. I know the govt just announced $15b in new spending, but none of those big tickets are going to help the men and women in Afghanistan. Delivery of those vehicles aircraft are at least 3 years away.

The government needs to get some equpiment NOW, to lease it if neccesary, or borrow it from the US or other NATO nations which have them in reserve. We need more mine-resistent vehicles, and most importantly we need helicopters to minimize the vulnerable convoys. They need to get some Chinooks delivered within months, not years. And it would be reaally nice to get some armed helicopters.

Sadly, the Chinooks that we used to have are being used by the Dutch in...Afghanistan. They were sold by Mulroney.

There was talk that we might be able to get some Chinooks off the assembly line but I didn't hear the details.

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I'm not sure if we should be there fighting. First, why are we really there for?? To drive the Taliban out. Why? They were good enough for Cheney and Bush to hold talks with, against the UN rules, about a pipeline and oil! All of a sudden, the Taliban want to change the "legal tender" to Euros and BAM! US is invading! I'm for helping the people of any country but when the President of the country, was replaced by the US and that person worked for US oil company, it starts you thinking. I think Canada may regret going into this war, which is plainly the US's for their own purposes.

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I'm not sure if we should be there fighting. First, why are we really there for?? To drive the Taliban out. Why? They were good enough for Cheney and Bush to hold talks with, against the UN rules, about a pipeline and oil! All of a sudden, the Taliban want to change the "legal tender" to Euros and BAM! US is invading! I'm for helping the people of any country but when the President of the country, was replaced by the US and that person worked for US oil company, it starts you thinking. I think Canada may regret going into this war, which is plainly the US's for their own purposes.

I think that most people were convinced that the country was being used as a safe haven for al Qaeda attacks on the rest of the world. You disagree?

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I think that most people were convinced that the country was being used as a safe haven for al Qaeda attacks on the rest of the world. You disagree?
You have evidence of that?

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I think that most people were convinced that the country was being used as a safe haven for al Qaeda attacks on the rest of the world. You disagree?
You have evidence of that?

Only that Osama bin Laden himself admitting he attacked and that he was in Afghanistan when he did it. You don't think he attacked on September 11?

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Slow down! You are jumping all over the place.

Only that Osama bin Laden himself admitting he attacked and that he was in Afghanistan when he did it.
That is not evidence and you know that.

A lot of jurisdictions refuse guilty pleas for people accused of murder for many reasons. One of which is to avoid a fall-guy taking credit or blame for an other person's crime.

You don't think he attacked on September 11?
What I think does not matter. I am talking about evidence.

There are several Canadian soldiers at war and dying in Afghanistan and we do not even know why.

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Slow down! You are jumping all over the place.

A lot of jurisdictions refuse guilty pleas for people accused of murder for many reasons. One of which is to avoid a fall-guy taking credit or blame for an other person's crime.

What I think does not matter. I am talking about evidence.

There are several Canadian soldiers at war and dying in Afghanistan and we do not even know why.

The U.N. and most countries and most countries asked the Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden. The evidence that the U.S. has on this remains classified although I can't think of too many countries who were opposed to bin Laden being turned over for questioning. The Taliban refused and the U.N. authorized that the U.S. move against Afghanistan. September 11 was only part of a long laundry list of attacks that had been traced back to bin Laden and Afghanistan.

I was in support of the apprehending bin Laden and removing the Taliban if they were responsible for allowing attacks to take place from a safe haven in their country. I am now a little leary of the continued fight there as the problems of safe haven in Pakistan now threatens the security of Afghanistan. I'm not sure if Afghan forces will ever be up to the task and they may be frustrated by Pakistan not stopping the Taliban from constantly coming back.

I am up for any evidence that Afghanistan was not involved in offering safe haven for attacks. I just haven't seen anything convincing yet. Have you?

My neighbor was killed on September 11 so I'd like to see the persons responsible brought to justice.

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The U.N. and most countries and most countries asked the Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden. The evidence that the U.S. has on this remains classified although I can't think of too many countries who were opposed to bin Laden being turned over for questioning. The Taliban refused and the U.N. authorized that the U.S. move against Afghanistan. September 11 was only part of a long laundry list of attacks that had been traced back to bin Laden and Afghanistan.
If the "U.N." and "most countries" is our authority on military action, let us use those rules.
I am up for any evidence that Afghanistan was not involved in offering safe haven for attacks. I just haven't seen anything convincing yet. Have you?
Has Canada officially declared war against Afghanistan?

Has Afghanistan officially declared war against Canada?

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Has Canada officially declared war against Afghanistan?

Has Afghanistan officially declared war against Canada?

We'be been in support of U.N. actions in Afghanistan. Now, we are in supprt of the Afghan government that has invited use to help.

I think that sometime in the next months, there will be a decision about whether we are actually a force for change there or a bunch of sitting ducks.

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The government has failed to make a coherent, comprehensive argument about why we are in Afghanistan, or, more likely, the media has been uninterested in passing that argument along. I spoke in another thread of the fixation some Canadians on the left have for the mythos of Canada as the noble independan neutral, never taking sides, always standing nobly ready to assist those lessor mortals in negitations to end their mad violence. I think the media are by far the biggest believers in this odd cultural falsity, and they have been against our participation in Afghanistan since they learned our soldiers would have to carry guns.

The message I've seen pumped out by the media these last months is nearly unanimous: it's a horribly violent place where many Canadians will die, and accomplish nothing. We're only there to help support the american war machine, are responsible for the slaughter of innocents, and we should leave, immediately, no matter what the consequences. Only then can we resume our traditional role of noble arbiter of all that is good and noble in the world. Only then will we once again be loved by all.

Harper and McKay really need to get on the ball and inform Canadians why we're there, and why we can't leave. For the media has done a piss-poor job of it, and clearly don't have any intention of showing us anything but death and destruction, without context. Every time a Canadian dies we get more sniveling from the media about how we're accomplishing nothing and need to get out, to run away, to retreat to our safe pedestal where everyone admires us and no one ever tries to harm us. And it's having its effect on the knowledge free ranks of Canadiana, most of whom rather like the image of us as international paragons of virtue, and few of whom bother to put much thought into their political beliefs. If Harper isn't careful this could cause the Tories to take a major hit, and eventually allow the Liberals back into power.

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I think the Conservative have already taken a big hit on this and it could grow to the point that they are defeated in the election.

It may be a conceit on our part that we can solve Afghanistan's tribal system, it's grinding poverty, it's drug trade, it's distrust of outsiders and it's orthodox religion.

I don't know that the media can be totally blamed for shaping the view of Canadians. I think people have slowly learned the history of these people from a variety of sources. Many Canadians don't want to repeat the mistakes of past militaries that moved into the area.

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Harper and McKay really need to get on the ball and inform Canadians why we're there, and why we can't leave.

I think many Canadians don't have a clue that to maintain your countries current freedoms and democracy comes at a PRICE.

While it is true IMO that Canada's interest in Afghanistan should possibly be limited to a peace keeping role but world pressures demand otherwise.

These pressures dictate Canada take a more active (combat) role in maintaining Western ideologies and standards especially when asked to do so as an ally.

I have no problem understanding this as a Canadian and also realize that perhaps we should have been in Iraq right from the start.

If you don't wish to support and possibly die for your country, I really don't know why you want to live in a country like Canada.

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As we sadly add up the dead soldiers that are fighting in Afghanistan, it is easy to become discouraged.

As each new flag draped coffin arrives on Canadian soil, it pains each of us just a little more.

But I think we need to remember something.

2,752 Innocent People died in the Twin Towers on Sept. 11th 2001.

(2003 revised figures.)

Our troops are over there fighting to keep that kind of thing from happening here.

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