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Abortion Debate


Nuclear

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But are you the ones saying The death penalty is murder?

No it isn't, its killing people who have killed. People who kill(wrongly) should be killed. Its just that simple.

Its just how you view something, i view abortion as murder, but i don't view the death penalty as murder.

The babies being aborted didn't kill someone, did they?

You view it as the death penalty is murder, but not abortion.

If you look at these two views, common sense would tell you that killing children, over killing murderer's is just plain insane

Abortion is not murder because you're not killing a person.

The death penalty is barbaric, archaic and, in practice, monumentally flawed.

The death penalty isn't murder; it's a contribution to the goodwill of society. Murderers have to be rid of. Most do not have a sudden conversion and decide one day to stop murdering. Once a murderer, always a murderer and unless you can lock them up for life which costs a lot of money.

So you can say, with 100 per cent certainty, that every individual on death row:

a. is guilty of the crime for which they are being put to death

and

b. would kill again, given half the chance.

And you get this from....where? :rolleyes:

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The death penalty isn't murder; it's a contribution to the goodwill of society. Murderers have to be rid of. Most do not have a sudden conversion and decide one day to stop murdering. Once a murderer, always a murderer and unless you can lock them up for life which costs a lot of money.

So you can say, with 100 per cent certainty, that every individual on death row:

a. is guilty of the crime for which they are being put to death

and

b. would kill again, given half the chance.

And you get this from....where? :rolleyes:

I'm not saying anything with a 100 percent certainty. Can you? Did I say anything about individuals who may or may not be innocent? I said murderers; people who murder and kill. I wasn't talking about whether the murderers aren't guilty of their crime and put to death wrongly. That's not the issue here, it's an issue with the justice system getting their facts correct. My point is that people who murder must be put to death, to protect society. Take a look at all those serial killers who murder for pleasure at whim. Just what on earth would make them decide one day to stop? I don't know if you have any children BlackDog, but you tell me if you feel safe if a bunch of serial killers continue to live in jails or prisons, where escape can be possible and everyone innocent is at risk.

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i never understood the logic of demanding that something be 100% proven undefeatable before accepting it.

the legal system is not, never has been, and never will be 100% at ANY level. doest mean it isnt worth having.

nothing decided by humans will ever reach100% perfection, but if we can reach 98%, and accept the 2% risk, then it can serve an important function in society.

frankly, i accept that in some bizarre circumstance, I could be sentanced to death penalty for murder if we had it. however its worth it to me as a punishment and cost saving measure. it would be worth the small risk for punishment of the worst sickos in society i think.

Sirriff

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So taking away what the baby could have had is okay.

Your "fetus" could have been the President.

Your "fetus" could have been an NBA allstar.

Your "fetus" could have been a doctor who discovers the cure for cancer.

Truely pathetic you would put the baby to death, How guilty any rational thinking person would feel for doing that.

Ever think, all you pro choicers what the baby could have been?

If you don't want it, Put it up for adoption.

Abortion is wrong and is not the answer.

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Abortion is not murder because you're not killing a person.

The death penalty is barbaric, archaic and, in practice, monumentally flawed.

Abortion is murder. Abortion is just like going back to acient Sparta where they would leave the "weak" babies out to die. Just kill them, thats the answer. Just because it isn't out of the Mother yet doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to live, if the mother doesn't want it.

The death penalty, through the judicial system, rarely goes wrong nowadays. 60 years ago i would have not supported the death penalty because of all the racism out there. Barbaric huh?

Explain to me, how killing an innocent baby, before it is even born. Is not barbaric.

Killing a person, who goes around raping, and strangling women. Is barbaric huh. So we should leave them in a prison untill they die. No that isn't the answer.

Ending their life, (i myself, if the evidence was totally against this man, was 100% sure he was a convicted rapist, murderer would end his fucking life through the most painful torture techniques. Just so he can suffer they way his victims did.) But those are just my views :D

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a featus is a featus, a living being, is a living being. they are 2 different things.

"but a featus will be a living being"

might not, miscarrage?

and by that logic, then I could saying that living beings will be dead beings. should I therefore say that everyone is dead?

no

thats just stupid.

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Hi Nuclear,  I have a question.  Supposing abortion was universally outlawed and in it's place a new, legal option was made.  This option would give the mother the right after birth, to take the child (up to an age of one year old) to a clinic where if she chose she could have the child put to sleep.  Now on a quiet street, every now and then a woman walks into a clinic holding a baby and an hour later comes out holding nothing.  What would you do?  Would you write on the forum how you did not like this,  would you protest in front of government buildings. Or, like me would you take an active role and physiclly stop this from happening?  It would not be hard, simply run up and snatch the baby from the woman's arms.  To me there would be no way that I could walk by one of those clinics knowing a baby was being killed without taking physical action.  How about you?

Are you supporting those who would kill abortionists? If there are peaceful means to prevent it form happening, by all means do it. Snatch the baby to safety, but going in and murdering people, even if they commit abortion, is just as wrong as what they are doing.

I must say, I have no symphathy for that girl who took RU 486...she tried to kill her baby and got what she deserved....

No, I, in my hypothetical world with it's anti abortion/up to one yr old termination law gave you an ilegal, but fairly begnign action to save these infants. Grabbing them out of harms way and carrying them off. I did not mention violence although myself I would probably include that in my options as there is no way I could walk past a place where an infant was being put to sleep. So, to what extent would you break the law in my hypothetical world?

Nuclear, still waiting for you to answer my question. Thanks, KK

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So taking away what the baby could have had is okay.

Your "fetus" could have been the President.

Your "fetus" could have been an NBA allstar.

Your "fetus" could have been a doctor who discovers the cure for cancer.

Truely pathetic you would put the baby to death, How guilty any rational thinking person would feel for doing that.

Ever think, all you pro choicers what the baby could have been?

If you don't want it, Put it up for adoption.

Abortion is wrong and is not the answer.

It could also be the next Hitler. :rolleyes:

Let me ask you: have you ever known anyone whose gone through an unplanned pregnancy?

The death penalty, through the judicial system, rarely goes wrong nowadays. 60 years ago i would have not supported the death penalty because of all the racism out there. Barbaric huh?

Explain to me, how killing an innocent baby, before it is even born. Is not barbaric.

Killing a person, who goes around raping, and strangling women. Is barbaric huh. So we should leave them in a prison untill they die. No that isn't the answer.

Ending their life, (i myself, if the evidence was totally against this man, was 100% sure he was a convicted rapist, murderer would end his fucking life through the most painful torture techniques. Just so he can suffer they way his victims did.) But those are just my views

The death penalty doesn't work. It has no effect on deterring crime and, from a punishment standpoint, is merely an exercise in state-sanctioned brutality (are we, as a society, to lower ourselves to the level of the people we deem unfit to live?). It is plagued with problems: chronic bias against the poor and minorities (who can't afford pricey legal defense and have underpayed, overworked public defenders (I read of one death penalty case where the defense attorney slept through large parts of the trial). Some states even target the mentally handicapped and minors. Not barbaric, you say? Yes, the U.S. can stand with such other defenders of human rights and upholders of capital punishment as China, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and more.

And spare me the sentimentalist claptrap about "killing innocent babies". There's a world of differenc ebetween aborting a fetus and capping a living child.

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It could also be the next Hitler. :rolleyes:

Let me ask you: have you ever known anyone whose gone through an unplanned pregnancy?

I would take that chance, okay! Wouldn't you?

Yes, one when he was a sophmore in highschool. Another when he was a senior in highschool. Niether of them aborted. They didn't put their kids up for adoption, and now are doing fine.

I have known of others in my town, I have never known a person who has had their baby aborted, i never want to know them.

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Abortion is not murder because you're not killing a person.

"Person" is a legal term, and at one time, it didn't apply to blacks or women. If a fetus is not a person, at what point does it become a person, and why?

it becomes a person once it's able to biologically self-sustain itself.

why?

simple. This is one of the key requirements of life.

what about vegetables?

they are already aboted. ever hear of pulling the plug? whats the difference between that and a feauts?

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So, can I kill a prematurely born baby a week after his birth, while he is still in an incubator?

i think that concept of survival came way back in teh 60s and 70s when the idea that the baby could survive away from its mother was an easy way to label it viable. obviously the viability of a baby has increased and increased to the point that premature babies can be saved many weeks earlier. not to mention we can see babies now.

but the concept was seperate from its mother, not in need of medical care, because many babies and infants get advanced medical care in modern times, its routine.

SirRiff

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Another perspective. How many anti abortionists here support welfare? The majority of the perspective mothers are merely girls jumping in the back seat of cars for a good time. Are these children to be banned to a life of squalor on welfare with taxpayers holding the bag and holding them in disdain for the rest of their lives only to repeat the occurrence in a life of misery and dependence? Making a mistake when one’s 15 (not 19) years old should condemn them to a life of poverty where rising above welfare is a major goal.

Abortion should be outlawed when mandatory sterilization is (inlawed) :P .

(I do not purport sterilization, just making a point)

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With regard to Whistler's point:

I find it very, very strange to argue that death is preferable to poverty, and even stranger to argue that you could or should decide for another person whether or not they would feel that death is preferable to poverty and then to kill them accordingly.

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