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Bushmustgo

Bush Doesn't Want To Lend Money To Iraq.....

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That's just great, a president who looks out for the best interest of another country with an American Credit Card, courtesy of the American Tax Payers!

He's upset because the Senate wants $10 billion to be in loans.............Just when I thought this President couldn't do the American People any worse than he already has.............BAM, he comes through!

He wants us to pay for it, our kids to pay for the tax cuts and accumilated interest and we still have over 2.7 million jobs lost since he took office.........this President is unbelievable!!!!!!!!

While the Republicans were recalling Davis, you would think they could put 2 and 2 together and recall Bush...

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If you're going to find fault with Bush's spending habits, you might choose to focus on glaring waste like his domestic vote pandering to seniors re:the Pharmacare program that has a price tag of $400 Billion though seniors represent the wealthiest segment of American society or his feel-good international photo op involving a gift of $15 Billion to fight AIDS in Africa, most of which will fill the pockets of local dictators.

As for the claim that 2.7 million jobs were lost since Bush took office, that number is questionable. According to a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, "The Bureau of Labor statistics asks people if they are employed every month, and their answer has been they have 1.2 million more jobs than they had at the start of this year." http://www.cato.org/research/articles/reyn...lds-031005.html and http://www.cato.org/dailys/09-23-03.html

Many developed nations are having problems with unemployment rates and budget deficits and they're not even fighting a war or beefing up national security as a result of a massive terrorist attack like the USA. France's deficit is 4.0% and economists project France's deficit may reach 5% next year, with unemployment currently reported as running at 9.6%. Germany is not far behind with a 3.8% deficit and 10.4% unemployment rate. Theirs are the top 2 economies in the EU. So Bush is not doing badly when one compares him to his counterparts, who faced less daunting crises.

Bush's proposed $20 Billion grant to Iraq is a relatively small amount considering that the USA has a $10.8 Trillion economy. And ultimately this $20 Billion good faith investment in Iraq may contribute to enhanced national security for America. A politically stable, economically flourishing, US-friendly Iraq would help in the fight against miltant Islam in the Middle East.

Bush also wants France, Germany, and Russia to forgive most of the outstanding loans that they gave to Saddam, and for them to do that, he needs to show these countries that the US is putting $ in the pot .

As for the California recall being the product of a right wing conspiracy, Grey Davis tried to spin that lie, but no one believed him. Grey Davis caused his own demise. He mishandled the finances of an affluent state so badly that he even lost the support of Democrat voters. Revenue had grown 28 percent in California, but Davis's wasteful overspending grew 36 percent.

Just prior to being turfed from office, a field poll in August showed that over 70% of Californians disapproved of Davis's job performance. Even Nixon was more popular prior to his resignation.

And more importantly, a USA/CNN poll in August showed that 40% of registered Democrat voters supported the recall of Grey Davis. Exit polls on election night ultimately confirmed that Davis had lost the support of his bedrock Democrat voters. Davis's incompetence was too much even for former loyal Democrats to forgive.

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Hi Morgan, welcome to the Forum. Nice post!

Two additional thoughts: There is a great deal of historical evidence that the conditions imposed upon Germany at the end of WWI were the proximate cause of WW II. Iraq is bankrupt and an added Ten Billion in debt on top of what is currently owed merely adds insult to injury.

Unlike certain Senators, we need to remember why we are in Iraq - to fight and eradicate terrorists and terrorism in Arab Islam. Iraq is our foothold in a continuing battle and 20 Billion is petty cash in that War.

To continue that War, Bush must be re-elected and if that requires pandering to some special interests, so be it. The survival of America is at risk and no cost is too high.

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Hi Whistler - many of us "Jacksonian Americans" have concluded after 9.11 and statements from radical Islamists that the choice offered to America is Convert to Islam, submit as slaves or die. Being Americans, of course our answer is 'none of the above'!

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Two additional thoughts: There is a great deal of historical evidence that the conditions imposed upon Germany at the end of WWI were the proximate cause of WW II. Iraq is bankrupt and an added Ten Billion in debt on top of what is currently owed merely adds insult to injury.

That's half the reason why Saddam invaded Kuwait. He owed them so much money that he could not pay them back and like Hitler needed an enemy to divert the people's attention.

Hi Morgan. Slow down with the factual backed posts please. You'll scare all the leftists away or make them start quoting some radical Arab newpaper for their counter points.

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Looks like the right wing is suffering from Amnesia.

I recall the president and his administration talking about Iraqi oil paying for their own rebuilding..........

Now, we don't want to LEND them money, we want to GIVE it away. We're talking about giving money in a time of over 2.7million jobs lost since this pres. took office, after large tax cuts with the rich benefitting the most,

funding an expensive war alone because we didn't want to do business with the internation community, all the payoffs and bribes we paid Turkey to get their support before the war started and NO WONDER THIS PRESIDENT HAS SUPERCEDED HIS FATHER IN RECORDING THE LARGEST FEDERAL DEFICIT IN U.S. FREAKING HISTORY!!! RECALL DAVIS OR SHOULD WE BE RECALLING BUSH????????????????

And quit comparing Iraq to Nazi Germany......Iraq as we know, was NO IMMINENT THREAT!

And only now is it a haven for terrorist, after this costly war!

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And quit comparing Iraq to Nazi Germany......Iraq as we know, was NO IMMINENT THREAT!

Neither was Nazi Germany, in the mid 30s. A broken country, economically ruinous, not only without a credible military but actually forbidden to ever have a credible military - stop me if this sounds familiar - but still went on to unleash the most destructive war in human history. Had Chamberlain and Daladier been as "trigger-happy" as President Bush, 50 million deaths and untold property damage would never have happened.

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Germany was also filled with incredible scientist and excellent engineers capable of designing their own weapons and military machines.

Iraq, as Thomas Friedman said in a recent interview, "is the Flinstones with Electricity."

We're totally comparing apples and oranges and while you sit here and talk about Iraq and Nazi Germany of the 30's, there's N. Korea on the other side claiming their Nukes, threatening to use them, say they can hit the U.S., etc........yet, we're stretching our military in Iraq, or better known as the "Flinstones."

Now the Pres. admits to no 9-11 ties to Iraq, cannot find WMD, told us that the Oil RICH Iraq could rebuild their own country, told the U.N. before the war we didn't need them and told them we needed them after we start struggling, said we were going to be greated with flowers and parades, said get rid of this Saddam and he would no longer be a threat to his neighbors, yet these Arab countries have not donated any money or troops for their "neiborly" cause................IT'S A BUNCH OF CROCK!

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BMG, have you ever heard of "Seed Money"? Yes, in a few years, perhaps three, the Iraqi Oil Industry will be rebuilt and then they can pick up the burden for upward and onward. Until then, we need to fund the reconstruction so they can stand on their own.

As for the "Rich" obtaining the majority of the Tax Cuts - Duhhhh - they pay the majority of the taxes! Simple math explains why this occurs. Obviously, you wish to retain their money and redistribute it where you wish to spend it - fine, that is a legitimate political position but have the courage (and honesty) to state your position clearly and debate it on its (presumed) merits. If you believe 'redistribution' is 'fair', state your position and defend it but don't call it an unfair tax cut - that is political BS.

You also repeat, yet once again the media lie that President Bush claimed Iraq was an "Imminent Threat" - quote for us where he said that or admit you are uninformed, repeating media lies and do not have a clue!

The people of America will have the opportunity to retire President Bush in November of next year - it is called a Presidential Election.

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Germany was also filled with incredible scientist and excellent engineers capable of designing their own weapons and military machines.

Well, first off, Germany drove away or murdered a lot of her scientific and engineering greats (such as Einstein) and second, the fact was that the US and Britain were leagues ahead of her technologically.

Furthermore, you should also note that since the collapse of the Soviet Union there is no shortage of former Soviet scientists and engineers who now can't make a living wage. It wouldn't be too hard for Iraq to buy their skills. Nor is it particularly necessary for the Iraqis to design their own weapons and military machines when firstly, the greatest threat to world peace is no longer the blitzkreig, but the phial of anthrax or the atom bomb in a shipping crate, and secondly, the Russians, French and Germans are willing to sell the Iraqis as much military hardware as they could want.

I don't believe that comparisons of Iraq to 30s Germany are that invalid, and furthermore, I don't see how the removal of Saddam from power could be else than a Good Thing.

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So, explain N. Korea, the country who has threatened and relate that to your 1930's Nazi Germany, Einstein?

Also, since you want to compare past wars to Iraq, I've got a perfect past war that fits the bill even better.......................Vietnam, shall I give you the countless similarities to Iraq, much more than the ones you could make with Nazi Germany???

So I guess you're also for us footing the whole bill and not let an "oil rich Iraq" pay it back........

And then some wonder how the deficit hit a record or why so many jobs have been lost by an incompetent President..........

Also, the accusations against Nazi Germany in the late 30's.....................were actually true!

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So, explain N. Korea, the country who has threatened and relate that to your 1930's Nazi Germany, Einstein?

Explain North Korea? What kind of request is that? You can only explain verbs, not nouns.

Also, since you want to compare past wars to Iraq, I've got a perfect past war that fits the bill even better.......................Vietnam, shall I give you the countless similarities to Iraq, much more than the ones you could make with Nazi Germany???

By all means. Justify your bluster.

So I guess you're also for us footing the whole bill and not let an "oil rich Iraq" pay it back........

If that will help stablise the Middle East and stop an atom bomb going off in New York City or Washington DC, or will stop the spread of Islamo-Fascism, pretty much any price would be worth it. How much do you think it would have been worth to prevent WWII from happening? $10 billion? $100 billion?

Also, the accusations against Nazi Germany in the late 30's.....................were actually true!

What accusations were made against Nazi Germany in the 1930s, please, and by whom? The "accusation" from Chamberlain that Hitler was a trustworthy man, that each of his "territorial demands in Europe" was the last, and was reasonable? The "accusation" that we would have peace in our time?

Yeah, those were really borne out.

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If that will help stablise the Middle East and stop an atom bomb going off in New York City or Washington DC, or will stop the spread of Islamo-Fascism, pretty much any price would be worth it. How much do you think it would have been worth to prevent WWII from happening? $10 billion? $100 billion?

Yes, an attack with WMD would certainly affect the stock market. And every person on the planet. The US, if attacked in this way would not stop to negotiate or attemt to be culturally sensitive to anything. Brimstone and hellfire would most likely be the response. Then it would probably hunker down into a police state the likes of what even the most rabid anti war type had never dreamed of in his worst nightmare. Pretty much anything and any amount is worth the lives and misery that terrorism could trigger.

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Similarities between Bush and Hitler..........since you like to make Iraq/Nazi Germany similarities.

I read the first seven, and they were all wrong, so I have to say I didn't bother reading the rest. I know when my time is being wasted.

Here are the first three, for an example:

1. Like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.

How many states did Bush win? 30. How many did Gore win? 21. So, according to US law, President Bush is the legitimate President of the United States, whereas Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg without popular mandate.

2. Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized national outrage, in Hitler's case the Reichstag fire, in Bush's case the 9-11 catastrophe.

Except, of course, that Hitler's cronies started the Reichstag fire and framed a half-witted Dutchman who couldn't have even worked out how to sneak into the building, whereas 9-11 was committed by Al-Queda terrorists who publicly claimed responsibility for it.

3. Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless ultra-nationalist foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate.

Except that Bush invaded a state that was known to be harbouring terrorists by their own admission and refused to allow those terrorists to be tried for their crimes with the approval of over 70% of the American people, whereas Hitler attacked neutral states without prior declaration of war, warning or negotiation.

And it goes on like this. Suffice it to say that this page, by Edward Jayne, is childish and shows an extremely biased interpetation of history. If you read crap like this, it's not surprising you are wrong on so many issues.

Furthermore, if you wish to contend that Gulf II is like Vietnam, my response is "so what?" I don't think either was "cooked up" by advisers, both were responses to perceived threats. Vietnam was a just war, but one that was badly fought and therefore lost.

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14. Like Hitler, Bush launches unilateral invasions on a supposedly preemptive basis.  Just as Hitler convinced the German public to think of Poland as a threat to Germany in 1939, Bush wants Americans to think of Iraq as a "potential" threat to our national security.

Its better to go in preemptively than to wait to be attacked :P

The German public was decieved because hitler staged an imaginary attack which he had the SS partake in

Border skirmishes between poland and germany when the poland army was many miles away... It was funny when a person saw two SS men fighting eachother in the same uniform. :rolleyes:

I read a book on how hitler decieved the nation of Germany. Which was written in the early '70s i think.... This correlation between bush and hitler is nothing more than a lie....Like the other 26 "similarities."

Saddam was also a threat because he supported terrorism, killed his own people, threatened America and Kuwait, and Israel.... Its just to bad stuff like THIS is on the internet.....Pathetic horsecrap, in my view....

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Yes, Hugo & KK - the World does not understand the result should WMD be used against America but our reaction to 9.11 should have given a clue. The rage of the American People will be such that no politician of any political party will be able to withstand, even should they be so inclined.

No-one - NOBODY - sneaks into our home and kills our women and children. There is no excuse, no cause which will justify such action nor will there be forgiveness.

Those who do such a deed, indeed even those we merely suspect had some small involvement will face the fires of Hell as we burn them and their Countries into radioactive rubble.

You should remember that America was ready, willing and able to remove every center of civilization within the Soviet Union in response to an attack from that Country. Why should there be any doubt that we would do the same to Islam should we be attacked? Fear the American Street for if we are attacked, our rage will be unbound.

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Some just view it as a mental exersise Ned. They challenge the legality of things and the human rights violations of people in GitMo that they know want to kill them. I will reiterate what said before; America will probably allow enough time to elapse to get it's civiliians and representatives home then unleash a very culturally insensitive total bombing of the country that harbored the people who attacked it. If they are wrong there will be no appoligies and they will move to the next most likely suspect. In the meantime those who protest will have little means to do so as they will be under martial law here at home with no internet and only state fed news. Land of the free will have been transformed into cage of the tiger overnight. And nobody will be able to blame them for it Everybody at the Un will be wondering what the hell they can do to get home as airports close down and police the world over have barricades up everywhere. Lots of fun. Left and Right become confused as imaginary terrorists are reported comming out of anything .and everywhere. People are arrested for the smallest thing.

A new Islamic country with terrorist roots, an angry anti US population for leaving them at the hands of fundementalists and ties two terrorist supporting nations on either side. This is the alternative to failure in Iraq.

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The majority of people voted for Gore.......FYI

Anyway, I still laugh at the notion of comparing WWII to Iraq, again, I can see the comparison between Vietnam and Iraq much better.

I don't recall Iraq invading all of its neighbors, only Iran and Kuwait and we helped them with arms, intelligence and bio/chemical warfare during Iran/Iraq war under Vice Pres. Bush and Rumsfeld back in the 80's.

If anyone was still so worried about Iraq invading Kuwait and we're doing Kuwait such a huge favor then how come Kuwait isn't funding this war?.........yeah, I know why....... but let's not use the neighbor excuse then like Nazi Germany!

Even if Iraq, like Nazi Germany, was to attack it's neighbors......would we care again, i.e., Syria, Iran???

This is a totally different scenario and right wingers desperately are trying to link justice to this expensive quagmire going on now...

It won't last long, Bush doesn't have a chance at re-election anyway........

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The majority of people voted for Gore.......FYI

Then you need to change your name to "USConstitutionMustGo", because George W Bush was elected fairly according to the US Constitution and if you don't agree, then your beef is not with him, it's with the US electoral system.

Anyway, I still laugh at the notion of comparing WWII to Iraq, again, I can see the comparison between Vietnam and Iraq much better.

Why? Because Edward Jayne, a retired English professor talking way outside his field of expertise, and a "former 60s activist" (read: hippie trying to relive glory days protesting against Vietnam) told you to, with a bunch of misinformation, extremely biased and incorrect misinterpretations of history, and outright hysterical nonsense? Any man who seriously compares Bush to Hitler is a complete moron, frankly, and was probably asleep when they tried to teach him world history between 1933 and 1945.

You don't have any credible evidence for what you are saying, unfortunately. You are making comparisons to historical events that you don't understand and have never studied.

If anyone was still so worried about Iraq invading Kuwait and we're doing Kuwait such a huge favor then how come Kuwait isn't funding this war?

I'm sorry, I must have missed that. Perhaps you can provide a properly-cited quote from Bush, Rumsfeld or Powell stating that Gulf II is a favor for Kuwait?

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It is truly unfortunate that the Ten Dwarfs running as Democrats as so busy pandering to the ultra-left activists of their Party that they are either unable or unwilling to enter into serious debate on the issues we face.

Must we wait for an A-Bomb or other WMD to be used in America before we take action against the Islamic fanatics &/or members of the Axis of Evil?

What would be acceptable as proof of an "immanent" danger? How is this to be gathered/proven in terms of a closed and hidden society such as NoK?

Is there a point where we will accept that the danger is not 'merely' from fanatics within Islam but is from Islam itself?

These questions exist and demand resolution; serious questions on serious issues exist - perhaps too important to leave to political squabbles!

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That's just great, a president who looks out for the best interest of another country with an American Credit Card, courtesy of the American Tax Payers!

He's upset because the Senate wants $10 billion to be in loans.............Just when I thought this President couldn't do the American People any worse than he already has.............BAM, he comes through!

He wants us to pay for it, our kids to pay for the tax cuts and accumilated interest and we still have over 2.7 million jobs lost since he took office.........this President is unbelievable!!!!!!!!

While the Republicans were recalling Davis, you would think they could put 2 and 2 together and recall Bush...

Surly you know that recalling a Pres is not a stipulation within the constitution.

Of course the libs could always get judges to change the constitution to fit thier purpose. Again. Again. Again and oh yea, again.

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The majority of people voted for Gore.......FYI

----------------------------------------------------------------

I dont understand the beating you people give this horse.

The votes were counted and counted again and again.

Sometimes they even added the absentee votes of the servicemen that the Dems had gotten thrown out.

Not one time did Gore win.

Also, we have been using the electoral colledge voting system forever, why is it now that you have a problem?

If Gore had won then it came to light that the Dems had the absentee votes nullified, would you have called for a recount?

No response needed, that is not the liberal operating method.

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Yes 6 recounts in Florida - and Gore lost every single one.

CNN announced 80 minutes before polls closed - breaking the 1984 Election law - that Gore had won Florida. A Democrat inquiry after the election stated that thousands of Rep voters in the Panhandle stayed home thinking the state was lost.

Gore was a failure. He won 0 states in the south and lost his home state. How is that possible ?? He only won 11 states. The Dumbocruds are popular in the Liberal north east and HollyWeird.

The Liberals should cry about something else. They manipulate CNN and STILL lose.

As for the midgets running for their nomination the most odious are Wesley [i hate real war] Clarke, and Howard [Let me imitate McGovern] Dean.

These two nabobs have offered nothing intelligent in policy or debate except the usual - Iraq is a mistake, Bush is stupid and the economy is dead. None of the 3 is true, and unless the Democrats come up with something a little more wise and engaging Bush will win 40 states in the next election regardless of what midget is leader.

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