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KrustyKidd

Worldwide Jewish Oppression Of Islam

Is there a Jewish Anti Muslim Conspiracy  

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After the Malaysian Prime Minister made his remarks to the Islamic Conference it sparked outrage across the world for it's anti Semitism and it's racial intonations. I brought it up and remarked on it and then CKNYKid was kind enough to supply the thread with the meat of the speech. (see below) These leaders have a concensus that they are having the boots put to them by the Jews. I cannot understand how (outside of the Israeli/Palestinian problem which is their problem) there is any oppresion going on. I also do not see any deliberate control attempts being made by Jews. CKNDKid was kind enough to say that there was this huge wordwide conspiracy by the Jew to do just this. I felt that this deserved it's own thread and here we are. I also decided to put a poll in as well.

For further debate please see the thread "A Religion of Love"

THE SPEACH

I will not enumerate the instances of our humiliation

and oppression, nor will I once again condemn our

detractors and oppressors. It would be an exercise in

futility because they are not going to change their

attitudes just because we condemn them. If we are to

recover our dignity and that of Islam, our religion, it

is we who must decide, it is we who must act. To begin with, the Governments of all the Muslim countries can close ranks and have a common stand if not on all issues, at least on some major ones, such as on Palestine. We are all Muslims. We are all oppressed. We

are all being humiliated. Today we, the whole Muslim ummah are treated with contempt and dishonor. Our religion is denigrated. Our holy places desecrated. Our countries are occupied. Our people starved and killed. None of our countries are truly independent. We are under pressure to conform to our oppressors' wishes about how we should behave, how we should govern our lands, how we should think even. Today if they want to raid our country, kill our people, destroy our villages and towns, there is nothing substantial that we can do. Our only reaction is to become more and angrier. Angry people cannot think properly. And so we find some of our people reacting irrationally. They launch their own attacks, killing just about anybody including fellow Muslims to vent their anger and frustration. Their Governments can do nothing to stop them. The enemy retaliates and puts more pressure on the Governments. And the Governments have no choice but to give in, to accept the directions of the enemy, literally to give up their independence of action. With this their people and the ummah become angrier and turn against their own Governments. Every attempt at a peaceful solution is sabotaged by more indiscriminate attacks calculated to anger the enemy and prevent any peaceful settlement. But the attacks solve nothing. The Muslims simply get more oppressed. But is it true that we should do and can do nothing for ourselves? Is it true that 1.3 billion people can exert no power to save themselves from the humiliation and oppression inflicted upon them by a much smaller enemy? Can they only lash back blindly in anger? Is there no other way than to ask our young people to blow

themselves up and kill people and invite the massacre of more of our own people? It cannot be that there is no other way. 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews. There

must be a way. And we can only find a way if we stop to think, to assess our weaknesses and our strength, to

plan, to strategize and then to counter attack. If we use the faculty to think then we should know that we are acting irrationally.

We fight without any objective, without any goal other

than to hurt the enemy because they hurt us. Naively we

expect them to surrender. We sacrifice lives

unnecessarily, achieving nothing other than to attract

more massive retaliation and humiliation. It is surety time that we pause to think. But will this be wasting time? For well over half a century we have fought over Palestine. What have we achieved?

Nothing. We are worse off than before. If we had paused

to think then we could have devised a plan, a strategy

that can win us final victory. Pausing and thinking

calmly is not a waste of time. We have a need to make a

strategic retreat and to calmly assess our situation. We are actually very strong. 1.3 billion People cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. We may not be able to do that. We may not be able to unite all the 1.3 billion Muslims. We may not be able to get all the Muslim Governments to act in concert. But even if we can get a third of the ummah and a third of the Muslim states to act together, we can already do

something. It is winning the struggle that is important, not angry retaliation, not revenge. But the defense of the ummah, the counter attack need not start only after we have put our houses in order. Even today we have sufficient assets to deploy against our detractors. It remains for us to identify them and to work out how to make use of them to stop the carnage caused by the enemy. This is entirely possible if we stop to think, to plan, to strategize and to take the first few critical steps. Even these few steps can yield positive results. I am aware that all these ideas will not be popular. Those who are angry would want to reject it out of hand. They would even want to silence anyone who makes or supports this line of action. They would want to send more young men and women to make the supreme sacrifice. But where will all these lead to? The enemy will probably welcome these proposals and we will conclude that the promoters are working for the enemy. But think. We are up against a people who think. They survived 2000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, this tiny community, have become a world power. We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains also.

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Dear KK,

While I do not believe there is a 'conspiracy' against Islam exclusively, I wonder about the 'world domination' thing only when I read information from Israel itself. I do not listen to the rantings of lunatics, and have been personally criticised in The Calgary Sun by such a radical Muslim speaker, Yoginatha Das. However, this particular text makes me wonder. I posted it elsewhere but will re-post for you now.

These questions were asked on "Ask the Rabbi", Arutz Sheva, IsraelNationalNews.

3) If the modern state is capable of halachically adding land to Israel, how is it permitted to add lands outside the Torah mandate when much of biblical Israel is still under occupation by the PLO, Jordan, and Syria?

4) Once all of Israel is conquered, if Israel were to annex a distant island in the Pacific Ocean (or even build a moon base), would that land have the status of Eretz Yisrael with all the same pertaining halachos?

The answers....

The late Chief Rabbi HaRav Shlomo Goren wrote on this last subject in Torat HaMoadim p.614 where he concludes that conquest by itself is insufficient to define the conquered territory as the Land of Israel for the purpose of agricultural mitzvot. It is necessary for the sanhedrin to expressly sanctify the Land after its conquest.
After the Land of Israel we are commanded to conquer is in our hands, if we were to conquer and then to sanctify through the Bet Din other lands, these lands would have the halachic status of the Land of Israel regarding the agricultural commandments..

Rabbi Jonathan Blass

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Hi Lonius,

I know that so many place blame on both sides in the Palestinian Israeli conflict that I considered that moot in this discussion. There is so much ammo to throw that it completely clouds both sides opinions so I have simply adopted the present in this situation. Facts are facts and Israel is not going anywhere. However it is dealt with is the problem of those involved.

To the present thread though; My question was how is the Jew oppressing those unrelated Islamic people, people that are far removed from Israel? I mean, Indonesia has no borders with Israel. How is the Jew trying to put them down? How is the Jew responsible for poverty in their country?

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For decades Israel has violated well established precepts of international law and defied numerous United Nations resolutions in its occupation of conquered lands, in extra-judicial killings, and in its repeated acts of military aggression. Most of the world regards Israel's policies, and especially its oppression of Palestinians, as outrageous and criminal. This international consensus is reflected, for example, in numerous UN resolutions condemning Israel, which have been approved with overwhelming majorities.” The whole world," United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan recently said, "is demanding that Israel withdraw [from occupied Palestinian territories]. I don't think the whole world ... can be wrong.” Only in the United States do politicians and the media still fervently support Israel and its policies. For decades the US has provided Israel with crucial military, diplomatic and financial backing, including more than $3 billion each year in aid. Why is the U.S. the only remaining bastion of support for Israel?

Bishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa, who was awarded the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize, has candidly identified the reason: "The Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic," he said. "People are scared in this country; to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful -- very powerful.” Bishop Tutu spoke the truth. Although Jews make up only about three percent of the US population, they wield immense power and influence -- vastly more than any other ethnic or religious group.

As Jewish author and political science professor Benjamin Ginsberg has pointed out. Since the 1960s, Jews have come to wield considerable influence in American economic, cultural, intellectual and political life. Jews played a central role in American finance during the 1980s, and they were among the chief beneficiaries of that decade's corporate mergers and reorganizations. Today, though barely two percent of the nation's population is Jewish, close to half its billionaires are Jews. The chief executive officers of the three major television networks and the four largest film studios are Jews, as are the owners of the nation's largest newspaper chain and the most influential single newspaper, the New York Times ... The role and influence of Jews in American politics is equally marked Jews are only three percent of the nation's population and comprise eleven percent of what this study defines as the nation's elite. However, Jews constitute more than 25 percent of the elite journalists and publishers, more than 17 percent of the leaders of important voluntary and public interest organizations, and more than 15 percent of the top ranking civil servants. Stephen Stein light, former Director of National Affairs of the American Jewish Committee, similarly notes the "disproportionate political power" of Jews, which is "pound for pound the greatest of any ethnic/cultural group in America." He goes on to explain that "Jewish economic influence and power are disproportionately concentrated in Hollywood, television, and in the news industry.” Two well-known Jewish writers, Seymour Lipset and Earl Raab, pointed out in their 1995 book, Jews and the New American Scene: During the last three decades Jews [in the United States] have made up 50 percent of the top two hundred intellectuals ... 20 percent of professors at the leading universities ... 40 percent of partners in the leading law firms in New York and Washington ... 59 percent of the directors, writers, and producers of the 50 top-grossing motion pictures from 1965 to 1982, and 58 percent of directors, writers, and producers in two or more primetime television series.

The influence of American Jewry in Washington, notes the Israeli daily Jerusalem Post, is "far disproportionate to the size of the community, Jewish leaders and U.S. official acknowledge. But so is the amount of money they contribute to [election] campaigns." One member of the influential Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations "estimated Jews alone had contributed 50 percent of the funds for [President Bill] Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign.” It makes no sense at all to try to deny the reality of Jewish power and prominence in popular culture," acknowledges Michael Medved, a well-known Jewish author and film critic. "Any list of the most influential production executives at each of the major movie studios will produce a heavy majority of recognizably Jewish names.” One person who has carefully studied this subject is Jonathan J. Goldberg, now editor of the influential Jewish community weekly Forward. In his 1996 book, Jewish Power, he wrote a few key sectors of the media, notably among Hollywood studio executives, Jews are so numerically dominant that calling these businesses Jewish-controlled is little more than a statistical observation ...Hollywood at the end of the twentieth century is still an industry with a pronounced ethnic tinge. Virtually all the senior executives at the major studios are Jews. Writers, producers, and to a lesser degree directors are disproportionately Jewish -- one recent study showed the figure as high as 59 percent among top-grossing films. The combined weight of so many Jews in one of America's most lucrative and important industries gives the Jews of Hollywood a great deal of political power. They are a major source of money for Democratic candidates. Reflecting their role in the American media, Jews are routinely portrayed as high-minded, altruistic, trustworthy, compassionate, and deserving of sympathy and support. While millions of Americans readily accept such stereotyped imagery, not everyone is impressed. "I am very angry with some of the Jews," complained actor Marlon Brando during a 1996 interview. "They know perfectly well what their responsibilities are ... Hollywood is run by Jews. It's owned by Jews, and they should have a greater sensitivity about the issue of people who are suffering."

The intimidating power of the "Jewish lobby" is not a new phenomenon, but has long been an important factor in American life.... For reasons which are understandable from their viewpoint as they are inadvisable from ours, for reasons which are not American, [they] wish to involve us in the war. We cannot blame them for looking out for what they believe to be their own interests, but we must also look out for ours. We cannot allow the natural passions and prejudices of other peoples to lead our country to destruction. In 1978, Jewish American scholar Alfred M. Lilienthal wrote in his detailed study, The Zionist Connection: How has the Zionist will been imposed on the American people?... It is the Jewish connection, the tribal solidarity among themselves and the amazing pull on non-Jews, that has molded this unprecedented power ... In the larger metropolitan areas, the Jewish-Zionist connection thoroughly pervades affluent financial, commercial, social, entertainment, and art circles. As a result of the Jewish grip on the media, wrote Lilienthal, news coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict in American television, newspapers and magazines is relentlessly sympathetic to Israel. This is manifest, for example, in the misleading portrayal of Palestinian "terrorism." As Lilienthal put it: "One-sided reportage on terrorism, in which cause is never related to effect, was assured because the most effective component of the Jewish connection is probably that of media control.” Jews in Israel feel free to act brutally against Arabs, writes Israeli journalist Ari Shavit, "believing with absolute certitude that now, with the White House, the Senate and much of the American media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our own.” Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, has spoken with blunt exasperation about the Jewish-Israeli hold on the United States I’ve never seen a President -- I don't care who he is -- stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. I got to the point where I wasn't writing anything down. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don't have any idea what goes on. Today the danger is greater than ever. Israel and Jewish organizations, in collaboration with this country's pro-Zionist "amen corner," are prodding the United States -- the world's foremost military and economic power -- into new wars against Israel's enemies. As the French ambassador in London recently acknowledged, Israel -- which he called "that shitty little country" -- is a threat to world peace. "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?," he said. To sum up: Jews wield immense power and influence in the United States. The "Jewish lobby" is a decisive factor in US support for Israel. Jewish-Zionist interests are not identical to American interests. In fact, they often conflict.

As long as the "very powerful" Jewish lobby remains entrenched, there will be no end to the systematic Jewish distortion of current affairs and history, the Jewish-Zionist domination of the U.S. political system, Zionist oppression of Palestinians, the bloody conflict between Jews and non-Jews in the Middle East, and the Israeli threat to peace.

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We all know that Israelis/Jews have difficulties with Palestinians. I thought I made it clear that my question was about a WORLDWIDE Jewish conspiracy. Jews and Palestinians can fight and terrorize each other until the cows come home, the Malaysian PM's comments were directed at the Jews who oppress him and his people. How do they do that?

Your post is invalid as it only adresses issues that are applicable to Palestinians and Americans. We all know Palestinians are oppressed. So are the Israeli women and children who die by suicide bombers. This was not the question. Americans may be oppressed but they were not the ones speaking at the Islamic confrerence and complaining. It was the Islamic societies of the world whom you did not even give a glancing comment. Please adress that. Thanks.

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The pograms and holocaust were premised on the fact that in many States or Empires, the Jews were tax collectors, the main merchant class, and main financial intermediaries - in fact notable Jewish families started the first large scale banks.

In many empires between say 500 AD and 1900 AD the top class of society disdained work, looked down on merchants and did not work - they were the glittering scum that fed off the cesspool of serf labor and agricultural economies.

The Jews were different, preferring trade and profit to protocol, pretty dresses, rank, and hereditary privileges. In such empires as existed in Europe and elsewhere Jewish conspiracies could easily be formed by those who wanted to channel hatred of one's squalor, lack of opportunity and filth towards a group that acted different, talked differently and kept to themselves.

Conspiracy theories are nonsense. There are practical reasons why events occur including racism. Hatred of those who achieve is as old as chanting monkeys. In fact even in groups of monkeys there is a strict social order and assumption of roles.

Unfortunately for the Jews in the hairless monkey specie ie. humans, they are singled out due to their success. Having said that in working with UJA here in Toronto, i can attest to the fact that the majority of Jews i have met are middle class and below, and many are poor.

But let's not allow reality to temper racist hate.

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To be candid, cknykid, your rant makes as much sense as those Canadians do who rant about this or that claiming Canadians can't do something or another because America will not let them!

This is regurgitated BS spread by politicians looking for an excuse for their inaction. "The Devil made me do it!" makes just as much sense.

When politicians ruin the economy, run the printing presses 24/7 and turn their currency into toilet paper, do you expect them to admit the mess is their problem? Especially when they can play on existing prejudice and blame "the Other" for the resulting problems?

There are thousands of indicators which disclose the condition of an economy and the currency used by that particular country and there are educated people who can distinguish those signs and evaluate the direction ahead for that economy and currency. Politicians wish this wasn't so but they are unable to hide the evidence of what is going on.

Sharp investors, which Mr. Soros is reported to be read these indicators and invest their own money intending to make a profit. More power to them - I wish I had the knowledge to do the same. Evidently Mr. Soros is a Jew - well, so what? What does his religion have to do with his intelligence? Oh, right, his intelligence proves the Jewish World-wide conspiracy! Dumb and thieving politicians hope that people will be ignorant enough to believe that because it gets the politicians off the hook.

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CKNY Kid, I nearly wore out my finger hitting the quotaton mark key in order to respond but I have a lot of questions. It seems that by the US helping Israel (who has been a stable and democratic friend in an area where there is nothing but despots and instability) this is taken as being a Jewish Lacky. Britain helps Australia and the US also helps South Korea just for two examples. What is wrong with being a friend?

Most of your post is about Arabs doing to each other what they collectively would like to do to Israel. I didn't bother to round up questions by catagory but would appreciate it if you could pick a few and go into more depth about how the Jew is putting the boots to Malaysia and Indonesia. Maybe go into Somalia or Lybia as well. It should be easy to find concrete evidence instead of the inuendo "outsiders" and "proxy" I mean, this is a world wide conspiracy right?

“Today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. Few examples”]

“1949: Outsiders back military coup deposing elected government of Syria.”

Jewish outsiders? Who and why?

“1953: Outsiders help overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.”

Jewiosh outsiders? Who and why?

“1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.”

Make up your mind, here the Jews are engaging themselves and the US is out.

“1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability"

So the Arabs don’t slaughter each other and continue to attack Israel.. I would imagine that Jews would love the opposite; to watch Arabs decimate each other.

“1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.”

And how does this help the Jew?

“1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.”

Well, here we have the Jew trying to help his Arab brother.

“1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria andEgypt.”

Of course, nobody denies Israel being helped by the US. After all, it is the only democracy in the Middle East. You would prefer to see them vanish?

“1973 75: Outsiders supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

And this helps the Jew by?

“1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.”

I would assume that Israel did this to just kill people or maybe kill the terrorists that attacked them then hide in these camps

“1978 79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.”

And the Jew benifits from this by?

“1979 88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979. Over the next decade U.S. provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid”

And this helps the Jew by?

“1980 88: Iran Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985"

So here we have a situation where the Jew is helping his Arab brother

“U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; “

“U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.”

Once again, here we have the US helping an Arab country and this has what to do with the Jew screwing the Arab?

“1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, killing some 17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self defense. U.S. vetoes several Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.”

It would also seem that the US was an equal opportunity "green lighter" as they also were seen to have given a green light for Saddam to invade his Arab bretheren in Iran and Kuwait. Israel invaded because it was being attacked by the PLO from Lebanon. That is not expansionism but protecting yourself.

“1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.”

And this of course helped the Jew by trying to stop Arabs from slaughtering each other. It would seem that peace in Lebanon would benifit everybody

“1984: U.S. backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.”

Ahh, Jewish rebels right? And this has what to do with Jewish oppression of Indonesia’s Muslim?

“1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada. U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.”

“1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.”

And this has what to do with Jewish oppresion of the Arab?

“1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.”

“1991 : Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth it”

And once again, this has more to do with protection of Iraq’s neigbors than the Jew. World oil prices would skyrocket if Saddam held Kuwait and took Saudi Arabia. Remember all the Arabs getting together to wring hands and try to find “an Arab solution?”

“1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia. “

I suppose you are going to try and say this was part of an Israeli incursion into SA? As well, you should change the permanent into temporary as they are no longer there

“998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.”

And this has what to do with the Jew?

“998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical warfare charge widely disputed.”

And once again this has what to do with the Jew?

CKNY Kid. Yopu seem to have confused the US wanting to promote stabilisation throughout the world with Jewish expansionism. Please draw more of a connection to how these Jews are doing something nefarious. All I see here is the US refusing to let primitive people with modern means of destruction go to hell in a hand basket.

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i dont like israeli policies but its obvious muslims have shot themselves in the foot by adopting backwards social policies, oppressing women, and not embracing technology and economic innovation.

and killing each other doesnt help.

sirRiff

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Riff, good man, we agree on this at least. Mahatir is a disgrace and the fact that Chretien was so chummy, shaking his hand and cracking jokes makes Canada complicit in anti-semitic racism.

For the sake of God Chretien Go....and disappear.

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Just as the Nazis blamed the jews for Germany's problems is the 1930's, Muslims are doing the same thing today. In fact, as every rational thinking person knows, the Jews have very little to do with the instability in Muslim societies throughout the world. A vast majority of armed conflict occuring in the world today is a result of Muslims who can't get along with their neighbors. (i.e. Africa, Chechnya, Kahmir, Palistine etc.) Bin laden is really just "Hitler in a Headscarf".

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Riff, good man, we agree on this at least. Mahatir is a disgrace and the fact that Chretien was so chummy, shaking his hand and cracking jokes makes Canada complicit in anti-semitic racism.

hey bush took mahatir aside and give him some tough love. maybe chretien was telling him a story of love or something.

SirRiff

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Dear KK,

As the moderator had previously pointed out to Mr. Read, Islam is not a 'failure'. It is indeed the fasted growing religion in the world today. Perhaps the religions showing no growth could be considered failures, but that would not be Islam. Islam, despite it's fractiousness, still shows remarkable unity throughout the world.

I agree that Mr. Mahatir is a lunatic, as was Malcolm X, Yoginatha Das, Osama Bin Laden, perhaps even Muhamed himself. I would also venture that Islam is, perhaps, the greatest menace to face mankind for centuries. Far above Judaism, but closely rivaled by Roman Catholicism, oppression-wise.

However, as cknykid pointed out, Judaisim and especially Zionism, is not without fault. To claim that anyone opposed to zionism is 'jealous' is sheer idiocy.

Dear KK, I did not read you entire 'interrogative post', for which I apologize, but for many of the questions I did read, the answer to "who" is Henry Kissinger. I would also request you research, from a purely Canadian sstandpoint, the names: the brothers of Bronfman and Reichmann, add to those names their aquaintances: Rothchild, Kissinger and see what influence these few men had. The results are staggering. Not to say that they didn't earn their influence, of course, but to where was the benefit of that influence directed?

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Sorry Lonius. It was not a meandering interoggitive post. It was a point by point quote and relpy to CKNY Kid's. As for Kissenger, duh. Yes, I have heard the name mentioned once or twice in passing and after reading his memoirs and knowing the effect he has had on the 20th century I admire the man greatly however would take exception to your infference that he had a nefarious plan to propegate the Jewish race over his National (USA) interest.

As for the "who" in the post, maybe you could go back and check it out to see the context in which the "who" is used and to what statement of CKNY kid's it is whoing.

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Shortly after George W. Bush took office, an odd coalition came to the White House to see Karl Rove, the president's powerful political adviser, to ask that the United States intercede in the civil war in Sudan. The group included Charles W. Colson, the born-again Christian who spent seven months in jail for his role in Watergate, and David Saperstein, a Reform rabbi and a longtime lobbyist for liberal causes in Washington. The two-decades-long war in Sudan was not a front-burner problem for the new administration, and Mr. Rove was not a foreign policy adviser. But the religious strife between Christians and Muslims in a conflict that had killed two million people was of enormous concern to American religious groups, particularly the evangelicals who make up a major portion of President Bush's electoral base. Mr. Rove, the participants in the meeting recalled, was unusually receptive during a nearly hour-long conversation. "He made it clear how seriously the administration was going to engage on this," said Rabbi Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism. Administration officials and members of Congress say the religious coalition has had an unusual influence on one of the most religious White Houses in American history. The groups have driven aspects of foreign policy and won major appointments. Mr. Cizik said that evangelicals were now more willing to work with Jewish groups on certain foreign policy issues and that the failure of evangelicals in the 1980's to meet their goals was in part a failure to collaborate. "Evangelicals have thought historically, `Well, we'll do politics the way we do faith — we'll just convert the opposition

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Thank you for that CK. How does this relate to oppressing Mulims? It seems to me that this group were trying to stop Muslims and Christians from killing each other. Muslims should love them for that. As well, the Jew was part of the group who was trying to save Muslim lives. Last, is this a bombshell and the main reason why Muslims feel they are downtrodden by the Jew? There must be more meat than this (not that this is even anything.)

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An indictment of Henry Kissinger for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes would include (but not be confined to) the following.

VIETNAM: Kissinger scuttled peace talks in 1968, paving the way for Richard Nixon's victory in the presidential race. Half the battle deaths in Vietnam took place between 1968 and 1972, not to mention the millions of civilians throughout Indochina who were killed.

CAMBODIA: Kissinger recommended and supervised extensive bombing raids into Laos and Cambodia (mis)using Nixon's constitutional authority as Commander-in-Chief. These numerous and secret raids were conducted by B-52 Stratofortresses that released millions of tons of bombs indiscriminately over the Laotian and Cambodian countryside, killing uncountable thousands of civilians. A military attack across the borders of a country that you are not at war with against civilians is illegal under international military and legal conventions that the United States is a signatory to. Kissinger persuaded Nixon to widen the war with massive bombing of Cambodia and Laos. No one had suggested we go to war with either of these countries. By conservative estimates, the U.S. killed 600,000 civilians in Cambodia and another 350,000 in Laos. Most of those killed were women and children.

BANGLADESH: Using weapons supplied by the U.S., General Yahya Khan overthrew the democratically elected government and murdered at least half a million civilians in 1971. In the White House, the National Security Council wanted to condemn these actions. Kissinger refused. Amid the killing, Kissinger thanked Khan for his "delicacy and tact."

CHILE: Incensed at the September 1970 election of Salvador Allende, Nixon assigned Kissinger the job of denying Allende the presidency.. It was “a ‘hit’ — a piece of state-supported terrorism. Kissinger planed the 1973 U.S.-backed overthrow of the democratically elected Salvador Allende and the assassination of General René Schneider. Right-wing general Augusto Pinochet then took over. Moderates fled for their lives. Hit men, financed by the CIA, tracked down Allende supporters and killed them. These attacks included the car bombing of Allende's foreign minister, Orlando Letelier, and an aide, Ronni Moffitt, at Sheridan Circle in downtown Washington. The murder victim is General Rene Schneider, who was the Commander in Chief of the Chilean Army. The 09 September, 1970 minutes of the "40" Committee, the Kissinger chaired secret panel that oversaw U.S. covert operations), the Chilean military had a strong tradition of neutrality in political affairs, a rarity on the South American continent. General Schneider was known as an officer committed to upholding the Chilean constitution and therefore opposed to the rumored incipient coup against newly elected Socialist President Salvador Allende by a right wing would-be junta of current and former Chilean military officers. Using U.S. Government communications cables from the CIA and documents from the State Department, and White House, relates the facts of Kissinger's direct involvement in the direction, planning, financing, and general support by the organs of the U.S. Government in the plot to remove General Schneider. President Richard Nixon had determined that Salvador Allende was not to become the head of the Chilean government, for various nefarious reasons, not obviously and directly connected with U.S. national security, if that has any relevance. Kissinger became the high-level action officer focused on accomplishing this mission directive from the President. The most significant obstacle to eliminating Allende was General Schneider, for the obvious reason that he controlled the military forces to a more significant degree than the smaller and more reactionary branch of right-wing military plotters. Therefore, General Schneider had to be removed.

The documents show that Kissinger orchestrated the delivery of "sterile" (non-traceable) weapons, funds, and orders to the plotters. The key document is the White House "memorandum of conversation" of 15 October, 1970 recording the discussions between Kissinger, Mr. Thomas Karamessines, the head of covert operations at the CIA, and General Alexander Haig, a member of Nixon's White House staff. This memo states that Kissinger instructed Karamessines to "preserve Agency assets in Chile, working clandestinely and securely to maintain the capability for Agency operations against Allende in the future; and that our encouragement to the Chilean military in recent weeks be kept as secret as possible." And while this document also details instructions to the coup plotters to refrain from "precipitate action" (Kissinger thought the coup would fail), it fully documents that Kissinger was a co-conspirator in a planned act of violence, which, in a bald-faced lie, he denied in an interview on the PBS Newshour, broadcast on 20 February, 2001. That act of violence was the ostensible kidnapping of Schneider, as part of a general coup. On 22 October 1970 the military plotters assassinated General Schneider.

EAST TIMOR: In 1975 President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger met with Indonesia's corrupt strongman Suharto. Kissinger told reporters the U.S. wouldn't recognize the tiny country of East Timor, which had recently won independence from the Dutch. Within hours Suharto launched an invasion, killing, by some estimates, 200,000 civilians. December 1975, in which one-sixth of the entire Timorese population is, eradicated “with weapons that [Kissinger] bent American laws to furnish to the killers.

Ancient philosopher Anacharsis, maintained that laws were like cobwebs: strong enough to detain only the weak, and too weak to hold the strong

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CKidd, I'm trying to be as objective as I can here so please don't take me wrong. None of this had anything to do with Mulims or Jews except for the last (East Timor)

We have Kissenger (Who is Jewish) doing things on behalf of the US government. OK. Same as if he was a Harikrishna. It has nothing to do with anything for crying out loud!

As for the last part (East Timor) we have him, and Ford doing something that allows Muslims to kill Muslims on behalf of Muslims. OK, at least that has all the key elements to everything. A Jew, an American and Muslims dying. Then it also has Muslims winning so still we are at sqauare one, where is the conspiracy?

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how does the Jew keep Saudi Arabia down? How has the Jew kept Iraq in poverty and turmoil? What Jew runs Canada? How does the Jew control Lybia? Egypt? Yemen? What does the Jew have to do with Malaysia? The country is thousands of miles away from the nearest Menorah for crying out loud!

Just please, give me some hard examples, none of the gereralized "oppressed peoples" of this and that crap. Real examples of events (without even goiing into Israel and Palestinians) where some Jew is controling millions of Arabs. And don't do the cop out thing with how the US is controled by the Jew and use that as your whole argument.

You wanted examples. You got it.

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Where do I have the examples? None of these ensure that one and a half million Muslims are living in poverty other than their own government's making. Please connect the dots to that rather than tell me that Henry Kissenger carried out duties as Secretary of State just as any American would have done. For crying out loud CK, I don't even have anything here I can go with to think about much less argue or agree with. It's not even hypothetical crap, it's ......... nothing. Not even racist rant. You made areal broad and strong statement. There has got to be something, I mean, even if there was a story where Kissenger walked into Saudi Arabia as Secretary of State and said he wanted to eat Arab babies that would still not relate to how Muslims are downtrodden by the Jew today. I need a lot of hard examples with relevence today.

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Where do I have the examples? None of these ensure that one and a half billion Muslims are living in poverty other than their own government's making. Please connect the dots to that rather than tell me that Henry Kissenger carried out duties as Secretary of State just as any American would have done. For crying out loud CK, I don't even have anything here I can go with to think about much less argue or agree with. It's not even hypothetical crap, it's ......... nothing. Not even racist rant. You made areal broad and strong statement. There has got to be something, I mean, even if there was a story where Kissenger walked into Saudi Arabia as Secretary of State and said he wanted to eat Arab babies that would still not relate to how Muslims are downtrodden by the Jew today. I need a lot of hard examples with relevence today.

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